CuteFish's COMPETITVE Weapon Tier List: Based on Tournaments

[Box]

IMO, tier lists should be about what is played, since that is based on observable data and not someone's opinion.

That's not really the same thing. If you remove opinion, you end up with a statistic, not a tier list.

I do think that tier lists should be constructed with tournament results in mind to avoid theorytarding, but you still need opinion. Even Smogon has separate viability rankings because they know the limitations of tiers based wholly on data.

 

[SupaTim]

That's not really the same thing. If you remove opinion, you end up with a statistic, not a tier list.

I do think that tier lists should be constructed with tournament results in mind to avoid theorytarding, but you still need opinion. Even Smogon has separate viability rankings because they know the limitations of tiers based wholly on data.

I mean, I don't think you can take opinion out completely, but we aren't getting anywhere with these lists that are based on "the best" weapons. If we base it around actual data at least we have a plum line to judge things on. People can't be like, "weapon X is overpowered!!!shift1!! it needs to be S+++ tier" if it isn't actually being played.

There will be some degree of judgment involved about where to some weapons fall between S and A+, and that is where the opinion/argumentation/consensus should come in.

 

[Agosta44]

"weapon X is overpowered!!!shift1!! it needs to be S+++ tier"

I agree Splash Wall is S+++ tier.

 

[Friendan]

.

I was wrong about the bomb range ups, they certainly do make a difference. However, Burst Bombs are really only good right now because everyone sucks. Similar to what @flc said, as the meta moves on, burst bombs will likely be worse. I believe this, since they travel slower than bullets, and someone who knows what they are doing can dodge them. With ink resistance, the burst they create doesn't really trap the player for that long. If you miss 4 shots, unless you stack ink recovery/ink saver sub, which means less damage/range, you can be shut down easily. Overall, it seems to be a gimmicky pub stomper set that can be countered easily.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Burst Bombs are the only bombs that goes off instantly, and they have the most utility, out of all the bombs. You can splatter dash with them, paint walls with them, line up kills/assists, push people off the tower etc. Burst Bombs are not good because people suck, it's because they are actually good.

 

[° Moteki]

Burst Bombs are really only good right now because everyone sucks.

 

[Cloudy]

quality thread

 

[Kaliafornia]

I was wrong about the bomb range ups, they certainly do make a difference. However, Burst Bombs are really only good right now because everyone sucks. Similar to what @flc said, as the meta moves on, burst bombs will likely be worse. I believe this, since they travel slower than bullets, and someone who knows what they are doing can dodge them. With ink resistance, the burst they create doesn't really trap the player for that long. If you miss 4 shots, unless you stack ink recovery/ink saver sub, which means less damage/range, you can be shut down easily. Overall, it seems to be a gimmicky pub stomper set that can be countered easily.

I will say that some people don't know how to deal with a burst bomb and a lot of the times if you can catch them off guard they stop shooting at you momentarily, which decreases trade kills to almost 0, that doesn't mean that their bad and people don't know how to deal with them, it just means they really are that good. Anything coming straight at you, even bullets you can dodge, lobbing a burst bomb or any bomb for that matter is no different. But a burst bomb to the face not only deals damage but immobilizes as it surrounds the area in your ink, so there's a very high chance that enemy will die on your next hits and will not be able to out maneuver you as they are slowed down in your ink. Works the same with assist kills.

Missing 4 shots, especially close range burst bombs, says more about the player than the weapon. The only players that should be killing solely with burst bombs anyway close up are Eliters and carbon rollers as they will likely have damage up and 2 hits you are done. A smarter and quicker TTK would be burst bomb then shooting for any other weapon.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Burst Bombs are mandatory on weapons with relatively stealthy approaches (aka Carbon Roller / FukitBucket) as they give a range option. The Carbon Roller is another weapon that increases its range via Inkzooka and whatever sub, thats fine. The thing is it has the fastest close ranged TTK in the game it like 12 frames or something. Then again, nerfs to Ninja Squid and the situationality of Cold-Blooded (they can still see where you are for a second, not a complete immunity. Its only really good for countering the E-Liter and the Custom Blaster) mean that there has to be something the roller can use to attack reliably at a range. Bomb Range Up and Offense Up / Damage Up / Deez Nuts Up / whatever allow the roller to kill things without randomly throwing its ink around like a blind hippo on steroids or something.

 

[Hitzel]

I was wrong about the bomb range ups, they certainly do make a difference. However, Burst Bombs are really only good right now because everyone sucks. Similar to what @flc said, as the meta moves on, burst bombs will likely be worse. I believe this, since they travel slower than bullets, and someone who knows what they are doing can dodge them. With ink resistance, the burst they create doesn't really trap the player for that long. If you miss 4 shots, unless you stack ink recovery/ink saver sub, which means less damage/range, you can be shut down easily. Overall, it seems to be a gimmicky pub stomper set that can be countered easily.

I will say that some people don't know how to deal with a burst bomb and a lot of the times if you can catch them off guard they stop shooting at you momentarily, which decreases trade kills to almost 0, that doesn't mean that their bad and people don't know how to deal with them, it just means they really are that good. Anything coming straight at you, even bullets you can dodge, lobbing a burst bomb or any bomb for that matter is no different. But a burst bomb to the face not only deals damage but immobilizes as it surrounds the area in your ink, so there's a very high chance that enemy will die on your next hits and will not be able to out maneuver you as they are slowed down in your ink. Works the same with assist kills.

Missing 4 shots, especially close range burst bombs, says more about the player than the weapon. The only players that should be killing solely with burst bombs anyway close up are Eliters and carbon rollers as they will likely have damage up and 2 hits you are done. A smarter and quicker TTK would be burst bomb then shooting for any other weapon.

Yeah, I guess I wasn't clear to Friend in explaining these playstyles for close range weapons with Bomb Range Burst Bombs. They are used as a long range option to control space and tag opponents at range without taking risks because you outrange them and are usually throwing them from somewhere safe. Don't get that confused with E-Liters hitting the panic button.

You also don't "spam" them persay. You make every Burst Bomb count and pace yourself so that you are slowly running out of ink but always have enough to defend yourself if you need it, and can take a moment to fill your tank whenever it's smart. Play it like they are Quake Rockets at mid range. You only need to expose yourself for a moment to do 30-70 damage and CC them with the knockback, while they can get one shot off at most. You are also never going to be in a situation where you miss 4 burst bombs at close range, because you are either using your close range weapon or running away before they get close.

For the record this isn't a "pub stomping" playstyle, if anything it's a support playstyle with the goal of least deaths and most assists, and I critique its effectiveness based on games against other top teams and tournament matches. Of course I am baised because I am developing it, but I'm objective enough to know why it's working.

It's hard for me to expect people to fully understand, since I'm pretty much the only person using Burst Bombs this way and have never seen anyone else with optimized gear for the job. I'm going to start streaming soon so hopefully I will help give the playstyle more exposure.

 

[Kaliafornia]

Yeah, I guess I wasn't clear to Friend in explaining these playstyles for close range weapons with Bomb Range Burst Bombs. They are used as a long range option to control space and tag opponents at range without taking risks because you outrange them and are usually throwing them from somewhere safe. Don't get that confused with E-Liters hitting the panic button.

You also don't "spam" them persay. You make every Burst Bomb count and pace yourself so that you are slowly running out of ink but always have enough to defend yourself if you need it, and can take a moment to fill your tank whenever it's smart. Play it like they are Quake Rockets at mid range. You only need to expose yourself for a moment to do 30-70 damage and CC them with the knockback, while they can get one shot off at most. You are also never going to be in a situation where you miss 4 burst bombs at close range, because you are either using your close range weapon or running away before they get close.

For the record this isn't a "pub stomping" playstyle, if anything it's a support playstyle with the goal of least deaths and most assists, and I critique its effectiveness based on games against other top teams and tournament matches. Of course I am baised because I am developing it, but I'm objective enough to know why it's working.

It's hard for me to expect people to fully understand, since I'm pretty much the only person using Burst Bombs this way and have never seen anyone else with optimized gear for the job. I'm going to start streaming soon so hopefully I will help give the playstyle more exposure.

Interesting. I haven't used burst bombs in that exact way, something kinda similar at times, but nothing this developed so I am interested in your method of using them with bomb range up. What main weapon do you find compliments this the most? My guess would be custom squelcher as it matches range if you wanted to be more aggressive but if your role is strictly more supportive and close range, likely splattershot.

 

[Hitzel]

Interesting. I haven't used burst bombs in that exact way, something kinda similar at times, but nothing this developed so I am interested in your method of using them with bomb range up. What main weapon do you find compliments this the most? My guess would be custom squelcher as it matches range if you wanted to be more aggressive but if your role is strictly more supportive and close range, likely splattershot.

I primarily use the Splattershot and reserve other weapons as pockets for Specific Specials. Namely, Neo Splash and Carbon for Inkzooka, and Custom Jet for Kraken.

The Splattershot is a Tentatek, so it's good up close, and since all but 3 Swim Speed subs make Burst Bombs stronger, Burst Bomb Rush is really good. But the magic thing about the Splattershot is that with Damage Ups, one Burst Bomb direct hit and one bullet kill, so you can Swim Strafe for one bullet, then run away and land a safe Burst Bomb for a clean kill. At worst, you get out of there alive and the other guy has to fear your Burst Bombs again.

It's a hit and run, zoning support playstyle that has a contingency Tentatek in your hand if things go wrong and someone gets close.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

Reasons Bamboozler is Double S tier:

1) Retardedly fast TTK with Damage up spam.

2) www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eS_JQkWS80

3) Destroys the RM's shield faster than than any weapon

4) Broken on certain maps [Port, Trigger]

5) Splash Wall

6) B A M B O O Z L E R R E L Z O O B M A B

 

[missingno]

.52 Deco in C? Someone please explain this one to me.

I mean, I guess I can see how Inkstrike is a liability, but Seekers are just so damn good they more than make up for it IMO. Shame the only other thing that currently gets it is the Aerospray with its terrible range, and of the upcoming weapons the only other Seekers are on completely different weapon classes.

 

[Symph]

Laughing at how reddit does not get the concept of this data being collected purely from tournaments.
I only see this list coming from a common sighting point of view. Not necessarily reflecting the potential each weapon has. When I see it like that, I extremely agree with how this list was made. Hopefully when tournaments are organized more, I'll shift it with the other weapons I know.

 

[TheMH]

Reasons Bamboozler is Double S tier:

6) B A M B O O Z L E R

Yeah, I know, dumb post, won't do it again XD

I agree Bamboozler has a lot of potential, though. As it's new, it's underplayed and probably has an even higher skill ceiling than the Squiffer.

 

[Ultramus]

Overall, I agree with most of this list, but it feels just a little dated. Changes I would make are as follows:

Tentatek S ->A : Inkzooka was what carried this weapon to S, people are both better at dealing with it, you get it less since the nerf, and the meta is much more mid range centric these days. Suction bombs are underwhelming.

0.52 gal A ->S : Inkwall, fast TTK, moderate accuracy, good efficiency, and killer wail make this one of the most versatile, consistent, and competent loadouts. This is my tournament go to and has yielded me my best results.

Forge Pro S ->B : This one pains me as this was my main, however the current state of the game has hurt it significantly. Its excellent performance as a weapon falls flat(lol) against ink walls, which are (understandably) common right now. It can't compete with Zooka output of other weapons and as good as the point sensor is, it does not make up for the shortcomings of this setup. Really regrettable as the splattershot pro on its own is so good.

Luna C ->B : High RoF, Large radius, decent kit, why is this C tier??

N-Zap grey B -> A : Excellent overall weapon performance with Splat Bombs and Echolocator. I'm more surprised you didn't have this at A tier already as I know many really good players(Symph specifically) who use it. I'd almost always have this on my team than aa tentatek.

Slosher C -> B : This could be my bias showing, but the slosher is a situational, albeit still competitively viable weapon. People discount it because they don't quite get how it plays or what it should be used for. Even if you factor in only tournament play, based on my results with it alone it should be B tier, not to mention how dominant it is on 2 zone maps. Burst bombs make up for any deficiency in the weapon itself.

All in all though, solid analysis.

@flc, the fact that you don't think Krak-on belongs where it is or that burst bombs aren't literally the best sub in the game means you are behind in the meta. The Krak-On isn't god tier like some people think, but it has a strong kit and will still show up in tournaments for a while.

 

[TheMH]

0.52 gal A ->S : Inkwall, fast TTK, moderate accuracy, good efficiency, and killer wail make this one of the most versatile, consistent, and competent loadouts. This is my tournament go to and has yielded me my best results.

.52 gal has two "problems":
1. as it lacks a little range its walls aren't as threatening as let's say the .96's or the heavy splatling's, since in a 1on1 situation enemies with longer range can easily just stand back and attack the wall until it's down
2. .52's 2-shot ability is countered by Defense Up. Stacking Damage Up yourself costs you precious slots on your gear which are wasted if the enemy doesn't use Defense Up.


A general thought: We should always consider weapon tiers in relation to possible loadouts. Weapons with beakons get stronger with Quick Respawn builds, Regular Splattershot gets stronger with Hitzel's Bomb Range build (which I actually like a lot, kudos for developing it, Hitzel), Bamboozler and maybe even Rapid Blaster gets stronger with Damage Up builds etc.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Can we please just put the rapid blaster in a coffin already?

 

[RadioactiveMoth]

Pretty nice I suppose. I think we'll need tier lists for each mode, though. We also just need more experience with the weapons and game in general. Also gotta say that you should use a better font. Kinda hard to read when the letters are small.