CuteFish's COMPETITVE Weapon Tier List: Based on Tournaments

[Ultramus]

.52 gal has two "problems":
1. as it lacks a little range its walls aren't as threatening as let's say the .96's or the heavy splatling's, since in a 1on1 situation enemies with longer range can easily just stand back and attack the wall until it's down
2. .52's 2-shot ability is countered by Defense Up. Stacking Damage Up yourself costs you precious slots on your gear which are wasted if the enemy doesn't use Defense Up.

In my experience, it's walls are more threatening as you have more kill power leftover on the 52 than the 96 after throwing one. Also to me, the wall is used more as a zoning tool and to cover my flanks. I feel like the wall is a tool best used to remove the range advantage of other weapons, a 96 can zone with its range alone, to that end I generally favor its default configuration.

On the second point, I think you should run damage ups on the 52 gal, to insure that 90% 2 shot probability, as that is where the weapon excels. It is an outright better killer than the 96, as it has higher efficiency, higher DPS, and the ability to lock down Krakens. Honestly I wouldn't compare the two weapons as I feel like one is more support oriented and the other more front line oriented.

Needless to say, this tier list was determined from tournament play, and the 52 gal along with the 96 gal deco have enough representation in the best teams to be considered S tier.

 

[missingno]

It only takes a single sub slot Damage Up on the .52 to preserve the 2HKO against opponents with 1 main + 1 sub or 3 sub Defense Ups. I think that's a small enough price to cover the majority of players.

 

[flc]

@flc, the fact that you don't think Krak-on belongs where it is or that burst bombs aren't literally the best sub in the game means you are behind in the meta. The Krak-On isn't god tier like some people think, but it has a strong kit and will still show up in tournaments for a while.

"not agreeing with the meta" is not "behind the meta". the meta is progressing quickly, which means it's almost always going to be straight up wrong at any given point in time until it stabilises. evidently, I must be one of the few people who actually acknowledges this. the meta is just now catching up to where I and many others left it months ago if it's really only now settling on burst bombs being good and krak-on being ok but not great.

what logic is there behind saying the burst bombs are the best sub in the game? people suck at dealing with them because they've only just realised that they're good. I main elitre, which you might recall has burst bombs as part of its kit. I'm pretty sure I'm decent with them, considering that I use them a great deal, though I sometimes do screw up my placement a bit and get killed as a result. but all my experience with them has led me to believe that, like the krak-on (well) before it, it's the latest in a long line of things that people have just realised are effective at something, have not learned to deal with, and are knee-jerking into saying that they're broken. at least now, people are jumping on bandwagons that make some kind of sense. that said, I've already learned quite a lot about how to deal with burst bombs, and they really don't pose that much of a threat to me anymore.

krak-on can be dealt with by inking its approaches (not difficult on most maps), forcing its special, and watching the minimap every now and then for beacon placements. its oneshot kill range is dwarfed by every top tier weapon (i.e. not ttek), which makes its krakens weak at best and useless at worst, assuming it even manages to build one in the first place. its beacons can be strong on some maps--saltspray, moray, etc--but not only do other, better weapons have beacons too, but these weapons also don't have anywhere near the same kind of trouble getting in as the krak-on does. these are hard counters. you cannot do anything as a krak-on to deal with these things that I'm talking about here. you can't just use some weird old trick to get by an elitre that doesn't suck. you can't just duck and weave your way to a custom js.

I'm more than willing to entertain the possibility that I'm wrong, by the way. I'm just not about to do it on account of someone saying so.

 

[Justice]

In my experience, it's walls are more threatening as you have more kill power leftover on the 52 than the 96 after throwing one. Also to me, the wall is used more as a zoning tool and to cover my flanks. I feel like the wall is a tool best used to remove the range advantage of other weapons, a 96 can zone with its range alone, to that end I generally favor its default configuration.

On the second point, I think you should run damage ups on the 52 gal, to insure that 90% 2 shot probability, as that is where the weapon excels. It is an outright better killer than the 96, as it has higher efficiency, higher DPS, and the ability to lock down Krakens. Honestly I wouldn't compare the two weapons as I feel like one is more support oriented and the other more front line oriented.

Needless to say, this tier list was determined from tournament play, and the 52 gal along with the 96 gal deco have enough representation in the best teams to be considered S tier.

For the record since I like 52 alot Il make a comment to this. I becoming to realize lately that people either run 0 defense or like 3 defense in which case your 2 shot is null and void. So I decided that I am just gonna take those out and run something else cause its pointless and I have the just the idea. Anyway the point is that 52 is still a strong weapon cause it has the most broken sub in the game and killer wail is a decent special in my opinion when used correctly. Overall 52 is good is it better than its brother the ttk? Who knows I think there jobs are just different so it doesnt even apply. As for the 96 id probably say 96 is better just cause it has kraken but its personal preference tbh. Some people like the mobility of the 52 and 96 is slow and its accuracy isnt the greatest. (albeit i dont no the accuracy of the 52 in comparison but im guessing it cant be as bad?)

 

[MrL1193]

It only takes a single sub slot Damage Up on the .52 to preserve the 2HKO against opponents with 1 main + 1 sub or 3 sub Defense Ups. I think that's a small enough price to cover the majority of players.

And that's also why if I were trying to optimize my gear, I would never use just 1 Defense Up main ability. I would either not use any Defense Up at all or use at least 2 main abilities' worth of it (which would also have a chance at countering Splattershot users who chose not to run Damage Up). A half-hearted attempt at a Defense Up build simply isn't worthwhile, and neither is a half-hearted attempt at a precautionary Damage Up build.

 

[Silxer]

what logic is there behind saying the burst bombs are the best sub in the game? people suck at dealing with them because they've only just realised that they're good. I main elitre, which you might recall has burst bombs as part of its kit. I'm pretty sure I'm decent with them, considering that I use them a great deal, though I sometimes do screw up my placement a bit and get killed as a result. but all my experience with them has led me to believe that, like the krak-on (well) before it, it's the latest in a long line of things that people have just realised are effective at something, have not learned to deal with, and are knee-jerking into saying that they're broken. at least now, people are jumping on bandwagons that make some kind of sense. that said, I've already learned quite a lot about how to deal with burst bombs, and they really don't pose that much of a threat to me anymore.

Really good point, it's only a matter of time before people (including myself) will figure out who to deal with the current commonly used strategies/weapons used in ranked... but then again I'm just talking about solo ranked not really competitive scrims...

 

[Ultramus]

Burst bombs aren't simply good "because people aren't used to them". The burst bomb is essentially an additional primary weapon, and unlike the other bombs, is instant damage on contact. Couple that with animation cancelling places it in a unique spot mechanically. The way it behaves allows it to add versatility in a way other subs can't. It will only grow in popularity as people get better with them.

 

[Ultramus]

And that's also why if I were trying to optimize my gear, I would never use just 1 Defense Up main ability. I would either not use any Defense Up at all or use at least 2 main abilities' worth of it (which would also have a chance at countering Splattershot users who chose not to run Damage Up). A half-hearted attempt at a Defense Up build simply isn't worthwhile, and neither is a half-hearted attempt at a precautionary Damage Up build.

If my 1 main of damage up forces others to have 2 mains worth of defense up, that's a win for me. I'm running the damage regardless to 2HKO at max range, so it isn't as if I had something else planned for that slot. The 52 is an all rounder enough that adding the Damage Up doesn't seem like I'm missing out on anything

 

[flc]

Burst bombs aren't simply good "because people aren't used to them". The burst bomb is essentially an additional primary weapon, and unlike the other bombs, is instant damage on contact. Couple that with animation cancelling places it in a unique spot mechanically. The way it behaves allows it to add versatility in a way other subs can't. It will only grow in popularity as people get better with them.

why is an additional primary weapon good? why is animation cancelling good? what makes the saving of a few frames more important than 20% of your ink (i.e. 25% from the burst replacing the ~5% from your flick/slosh/whatever)?

I would argue that an additional primary--even though bursts do not behave like this--is not useful. if your primary and your sub both accomplish the same goals (as opposed to the sub accomplishing one, and the primary accomplishing another), this does not mean that you are suddenly better at doing those things. it means that you now have redundancies in your kit.

still, bursts don't at all behave like additional primaries. first, the defining aspect of a primary weapon is its sustained presence. an elitre can always shoot in a certain range. the dynamo can always flick in a certain range. a ttek can always shred things in a certain range. bursts, though, do not have this sustained presence due to the delay before ink recovery begins; four (five with savers) and done. other aspects of primaries can be debated over, but the actual use of bursts is that they can fill a number of niches. for elitres, they give you a reliable way to deal with one or two close- to mid-range targets with relative safety, and a lateral movement option that the weapon sometimes finds itself needing. for the splattershot, they give it longer-range options (though not as good as the suction/zooka combo of the ttek in my opinion; people forgot that suctions are the point of the ttek, not the weapon itself, which is just very strong close range). for the cjs, they give it a way to clean up damaged enemies in a way that the js itself can't. note that in all of these cases, bursts are just "decent". bursts help elitres, but their ink consumption makes using them in anything but an emergency far from ideal. splattershot might get longer-range engagement options, but those options revolve around ~25 damage hits, since reliably landing the close or mid hitzones at that range is not a thing unless the person you're throwing them at is not paying attention.

these are all reasons why burst bombs are good. but you can make similar arguments for every secondary that isn't the beacon or the mine, and they all make the same sort of sense. bursts are not the best subs in the game, and even if they were, they would be in such close contention with other top sub weapons that suggesting anyone who disagrees is behind the meta would be a gross exaggeration.

just because a technique exists doesn't make it good. just because something behaves in a unique way does not make it useful. this is precisely the knee-jerk reaction that I've been referring to.

 

[GameGalaxy64]

why is an additional primary weapon good? why is animation cancelling good? what makes the saving of a few frames more important than 20% of your ink (i.e. 25% from the burst replacing the ~5% from your flick/slosh/whatever)?

I would argue that an additional primary--even though bursts do not behave like this--is a bad thing. primaries have specific use cases, and if your sub weapon overlaps with those use cases, then you have a problem with the kinds of things you can accomplish.

still, bursts don't at all behave like additional primaries. first, the defining aspect of a primary weapon is its sustained presence. an elitre can always shoot in a certain range. the dynamo can always flick in a certain range. a ttek can always shred things in a certain range. bursts, though, do not have this sustained presence due to the delay before ink recovery begins; four (five with savers) and done. other aspects of primaries can be debated over, but the actual use of bursts is that they can fill a number of niches. for elitres, they give you a reliable way to deal with one or two close- to mid-range targets with relative safety, and a lateral movement option that the weapon sometimes finds itself needing. for the splattershot, they give it longer-range options (though not as good as the suction/zooka combo of the ttek in my opinion; people forgot that suctions are the point of the ttek, not the weapon itself, which is just very strong close range). for the cjs, they give it a way to clean up damaged enemies in a way that the js itself can't. note that in all of these cases, bursts are just "decent". bursts help elitres, but their ink consumption makes using them in anything but an emergency far from ideal. splattershot might get longer-range engagement options, but those options revolve around ~25 damage hits, since reliably landing the close or mid hitzones at that range is not a thing unless the person you're throwing them at is not paying attention.

these are all reasons why burst bombs are good. but you can make similar arguments for every secondary that isn't the beacon or the mine, and they all make the same sort of sense. bursts are not the best subs in the game, and even if they were, they would be in such close contention with other top sub weapons that suggesting anyone who disagrees is behind the meta would be a gross exaggeration.

just because a technique exists doesn't make it good. just because something behaves in a unique way does not make it useful. this is precisely the knee-jerk reaction that I've been referring to.

Soooo... you're not going to go C- to A+ using only burst bombs on stream? ;)

 

[Mr.HawK]

i love the fresh scent of tiers in the morning.

im just gonna play the game lmao

 

[Ultramus]

why is an additional primary weapon good? why is animation cancelling good? what makes the saving of a few frames more important than 20% of your ink (i.e. 25% from the burst replacing the ~5% from your flick/slosh/whatever)?

I would argue that an additional primary--even though bursts do not behave like this--is a bad thing. primaries have specific use cases, and if your sub weapon overlaps with those use cases, then you have a problem with the kinds of things you can accomplish.

still, bursts don't at all behave like additional primaries. first, the defining aspect of a primary weapon is its sustained presence. an elitre can always shoot in a certain range. the dynamo can always flick in a certain range. a ttek can always shred things in a certain range. bursts, though, do not have this sustained presence due to the delay before ink recovery begins; four (five with savers) and done. other aspects of primaries can be debated over, but the actual use of bursts is that they can fill a number of niches. for elitres, they give you a reliable way to deal with one or two close- to mid-range targets with relative safety, and a lateral movement option that the weapon sometimes finds itself needing. for the splattershot, they give it longer-range options (though not as good as the suction/zooka combo of the ttek in my opinion; people forgot that suctions are the point of the ttek, not the weapon itself, which is just very strong close range). for the cjs, they give it a way to clean up damaged enemies in a way that the js itself can't. note that in all of these cases, bursts are just "decent". bursts help elitres, but their ink consumption makes using them in anything but an emergency far from ideal. splattershot might get longer-range engagement options, but those options revolve around ~25 damage hits, since reliably landing the close or mid hitzones at that range is not a thing unless the person you're throwing them at is not paying attention.

these are all reasons why burst bombs are good. but you can make similar arguments for every secondary that isn't the beacon or the mine, and they all make the same sort of sense. bursts are not the best subs in the game, and even if they were, they would be in such close contention with other top sub weapons that suggesting anyone who disagrees is behind the meta would be a gross exaggeration.

just because a technique exists doesn't make it good. just because something behaves in a unique way does not make it useful. this is precisely the knee-jerk reaction that I've been referring to.

I'm not knee-jerk reacting at all. I think honestly only those of us in Squid Squad rate burst bombs as highly as i'm suggesting. I'm pulling my thoughts on them from play, the fact that you haven't ran into people using Custom Jet, Splattershot, or nozzlenose D using burst cancelling effectively surprises me more than anything. Not that it matters, you'll face it in tournament play soon enough anyways.

 

[Rhode]

Fairly accurate, but it's too broad. The Dynamo shouldn't be in the same tier as the other B weapons. You should have S, A+, A, A-, so on and so forth, more tiers to be more specific.

Also as an octobrush main im highly offended that you put it next to the splattershot jr lol

The splattershot jr is a very good weapon.

Also, Luna Blaster is one of the strongest blasters in the game and putting any blaster before it is ludicrous. Rapid Blaster is a close second.

 

[SupaTim]

"not agreeing with the meta" is not "behind the meta". the meta is progressing quickly, which means it's almost always going to be straight up wrong at any given point in time until it stabilises. evidently, I must be one of the few people who actually acknowledges this. the meta is just now catching up to where I and many others left it months ago if it's really only now settling on burst bombs being good and krak-on being ok but not great.

This is just bothering me. The meta can't be "wrong." The meta is just the meta. You can't "leave the meta." You can adapt to the meta and push the meta certain ways by how you adapt and what you use, but it is always going to be separate from your opinions and what your squad is doing in scrimmages. If people are using krak-ons then they are meta, despite how you feel about their overall strength. If people are using every weapon with burst bombs then burst bombs are meta. Your tech to counter the meta is NOT the meta until everyone else starts using it.

You might be right about it being unstable, or at least poorly defined right now because there doesn't seem to be an easy way to gather data about what people are using in tournaments (maybe there is, I'm not sure), but that doesn't make it "wrong."

 

[Box]

I have explained to you and others here in the past, why I think the Krak-on Roller set is good, many times. I find it fruitless, to regurgitate it over and over.

If we can sidestep the personal drama here, I think it's worth hearing the updated arguments for the Krak-On. When it came out, it was the only Kraken user and the only Beacon user. Now the Kraken has become one of if not the most prominent specials in the meta and there are a number of faster Beacon users. I feel like the meta of this weapon has changed more than any other since the start of the game. I don't play rollers so I wouldn't necessarily know: how does the Krak-On fit into the new meta?

I'm not trying to single you out here. I'm interested in hearing from anyone here about this. I'd rather hear about the Krak-On in the actual Splatoon meta rather than this metameta of who knew what weapon was good when.

 

[[EJ]_Locke]

Apparently my favourite weapon (Neo Splash) is one of the worst in the game! Oh well.

It isn't bad, don't worry. Now that I play it I think that it is a great weapon. This entire list is made by elitist people who wont look at anybody elses opinions and even try reasoning with other people, so I suggest sitting back and watching everybody else start to walk on a road that leads nowhere.

 

[Cloudy]

esports lolll

 

[GameGalaxy64]

It isn't bad, don't worry. Now that I play it I think that it is a great weapon. This entire list is made by elitist people who wont look at anybody elses opinions and even try reasoning with other people, so I suggest sitting back and watching everybody else start to walk on a road that leads nowhere.

Shots fired

 

[Hope]

It isn't bad, don't worry. Now that I play it I think that it is a great weapon. This entire list is made by elitist people who wont look at anybody elses opinions and even try reasoning with other people, so I suggest sitting back and watching everybody else start to walk on a road that leads nowhere.

Oh no someone disagrees with you over the neo splash placement, let's go post a sarcastic remark on the thread generalizing everyone who made the list! That's sure to make things better!

If you disagree with something on his list try logically arguing for the weapon you disagree over, rather than launching caustic spittle everywhere. If anyone thinks a weapon is in the wrong place give an actual argument for it, instead of a series of snide remarks directed at groups of players. It causes drama. adds nothing to the discussion, and clogs up the thread.

The neo-spash is a very good weapon, it's just that in the long range meta that is here/will be here it falls kinda short. I'm pretty sure this COMPETITIVE TIER LIST BASED ON TOURNAMENTS takes this into account, this isn't a solo queue tier list. Custom Jet Squelcher would never be the top on one of those, but it's amazing at cleaning up fights and supporting friends while zoning out enemies. You can go games without dying if you know what you are doing, and a Jet Squelcher that doesn't is constantly contributing lots of pressure across the map.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Oh no someone disagrees with you over the neo splash placement, let's go post a sarcastic remark on the thread generalizing everyone who made the list! That's sure to make things better!

If you disagree with something on his list try logically arguing for the weapon you disagree over, rather than launching caustic spittle everywhere. If anyone thinks a weapon is in the wrong place give an actual argument for it, instead of a series of snide remarks directed at groups of players.

This is the internet.

The neo splash is good. Bomb rush is to good.