Explo mains, how are you feeling right now?

Sorcerer

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I'm pretty sure your entire "kits for modes" thing has already been completely debunked, right? How'd your 52 Gal Deco prediction go? A splash wall is not stopping people from entering the zone, and placing one costs so much that it reduces your ability to output paint on the zone. The point that explo needs to push to with a wall to fight an enemy backliner is wayy farther than it wants to be and means you're giving up positional advantage and risking death. You're also not outputting zone paint. In a neutral scenario, which is when you'd want someone dealing with an enemy backliner most the time, you are supposed to be in a safe position. If you're up with wall you risk going down and losing neutral. You also are not giving your teammates paint control to make advantages with. Also, rain would be more helpful for breaking the line and more helpful for dealing with the enemy backliner. You are making fundamental misunderstandings with the role of the weapon and what it wants.
Having missed out on a prediction does not deny that the best use of multiple kits for a weapon is to properly address the objectives of various game modes. Even if you don't see C.Explosher as a Splat Zones, I'm sure you can see its use to prevent overextending in Rainmaker, with Splashdown as a can opener. Or in Tower Control, with Splashdown as insurance when riding the tower and wall to act as ad hoc protection while attacking with the group. In Clam Blitz, you are the most vulnerable player and the one most likely to play as clam bank.

Anything is smarter than saying that the kit is worthless.
 

missingno

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Even if you don't see C.Explosher as a Splat Zones, I'm sure you can see its use to prevent overextending in Rainmaker, with Splashdown as a can opener. Or in Tower Control, with Splashdown as insurance when riding the tower and wall to act as ad hoc protection while attacking with the group. In Clam Blitz, you are the most vulnerable player and the one most likely to play as clam bank.
No, I really can't see any of these things.

When a game has 100+ kits, they can't all be flawlessly balanced. There are going to be duds, and this is unquestionably one of them. I don't know why you're so adamantly convinced that Nintendo cannot ever make mistakes.
 

OnePotWonder

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Anything is smarter than saying that the kit is worthless.
Not necessarily.
You've been trying to convince people who main the weapon that the kit is better than the vanilla one in two modes.

It's time to throw in the towel.
Yes, wall can be used to defend against other backlines, but Explosher rarely enters their range in the first place, and the wall offers next to no protection against short range weapons. The fact that it leaves you with three sloshes after being used also doesn't help its case. Almost any other sub would have been better.
There is literally no argument for Triple Splashdown on the weapon. "Trading with frontlines that rush it down" being the best use case for a special weapon is Not Good™.

Saying the kit is worthless and moving on seems like a very intelligent reaction, especially if you don't use the main weapon.
Please stop trying to justify this design choice. Some things are just bad no matter which way you look at them.
And trust me, these guys have looked.

I am very curious as to how Sheldon will justify this kit.
 

vitellary

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I am very curious as to how Sheldon will justify this kit.
that's always the most fun part of bad kits to me, seeing how sheldon tries to sell it to you. i think i've found that he doesn't even bother with the bad kits sometimes, s-blast 92 is an example (his only comment on any of its kit is "but you've got the Sprinkler sub and Reefslider special to more than make up the [main weapon's weaknesses]", which, lol). wouldn't be surprised if he just says "and splash wall and splashdown are great for defending yourself :D :D :D" and thats it
 

DzNutsKong

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If we get anything from Sheldon it'll probably be that the Splash Wall vaguely lets you "cover for the weapon firing slowly" and Triple Splashdown is a way to punish people for getting too close. I admittedly don't have much to back this up, but something gives me the feeling that before this special came out and while the developers were still working on it they severely underestimated how many trades would happen with it. Like people would prioritize themselves not dying over killing the opponent when Splashdown is used or something. Either way it's definitely a panic button. The positions you'd need to take to use it for anything else are either too hard to ask any Explosher to get to or are already covered by it hitting over cover well.

For kit design in general, I think the point of extra kits is to give weapons access to multiple unique playstyles in one game or to let people play to the strengths of a main weapon in different ways. The vanilla Explosher is probably meant to directly take out other people easier and support teammates a bit better by hunting people down after marking them or sometimes chipping them with Ink Storm. The Custom Explosher would probably meant to sacrifice some of that to keep itself alive for longer. It's still a backline so the differences between the two kits won't be too crazy, and the execution is horrible beyond words in this case, but the thought is still there.

In general I think people kind of exaggerate on and are a little harsh towards Nintendo for being as out-of-touch as they are, although I totally understand being upset over this. Explosher is one of several weapons that kinda needs boosts and has been given nothing outside of an empty promise that "maybe its next kit will be better" where Explo players ultimately got screwed out of even that. Some ideas are going to work and some just aren't. Competitive Splatoon has a lot of nuance to it and I can't expect the developers to see eye-to-eye with both casual and competitive players on every single thing across several languages and five different game modes. The issues with Triple Splashdown may have seemed fairly obvious to us but when it sees so little direct use at top level I could totally see it being difficult to have much takeaway for why. Like they definitely know "people die when they use it" judging from Splatoon 2 patch notes even if there was no saving it at that point, and I can't imagine why they'd want to revert some of the buffs they gave it unless they genuinely think they fixed whatever its problem with dying was.

I'm no apologist, like I'll always agree that we're getting kits WAY too slowly and there's no world where I can justify TTek and Neo Splash both existing even when trying to imagine their point of view. I just think this train of thought much better than getting confused and pissed off every time something I don't like happens here. The problems will still remain, Explosher still only has one real kit, but it's not as bad as thinking it's from lack of care.
 

Roundabout

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I cannot think of a map/mode I'd ever use this on over vexplo, and even then I'd just use blob most places instead for its role.

I wish explo and dread wringer swapped kits. Wave breaker isn't great, but I think it'd be decent on explo with combo potential and a quick way to refill your tank.
 

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I've been reading this thread, and it's like some people are failing to wrap their heads around that not everyone plays the same and that there are different playstyles. Like yeah, I get that some of you would rather toss a bomb, go in guns blazing and be done with it, or maybe you'd just like to sit pretty from a sniping perch, but not everyone does that. I love the Explo and I love Wall, so this is perfect for me. I can push up and be a little more aggressive with it now, with a Triple Splashdown to fall back on. Don't like it, don't play it. Simple as that.
 

McSquid82

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Not all weapons can play all playstyles. You wouldn't pick a Sploosh and then try to sit on snipe all game. No kit would ever make that make sense.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. Here's another way of putting it. Instead of just complaining about the kit, just use what you're given. Play to the strengths of the main, sub and special. Don't focus on what you don't have with a weapon's kit and practice and grind with what you do have. I understand not everyone has this mindset but I do. I'm going to use the V-Carbon as an example. Shark, poke with autobombs and use your zipcaster to make up for your lack of range. That's what I mean about playing to the strengths of a weapon's kit. In other words, try to get the most out a weapon, and if you don't have the patience find another weapon. But don't knock people who have dedicated themselves to 4 and 5 starring these weapons just because you don't like them.
 

missingno

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Playing to a weapon's strengths is only half the picture, you also have to understand and play around its weaknesses. Explo is a weapon of extremes, its strengths box it into a very specific role and its weaknesses prevent it from doing much else. And that's why this kit is so disastrous, because those weaknesses make the sub and special nearly useless for it.

If you want to play a bottom tier kit, I'm not going to stop you. I just want you to understand what you're getting yourself into. In fact if you're truly determined to try and make it work, the first step to playing any low tier in any game is understanding your weaknesses. You will never get anywhere if you're stuck in denial.
 

McSquid82

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Playing to a weapon's strengths is only half the picture, you also have to understand and play around its weaknesses. Explo is a weapon of extremes, its strengths box it into a very specific role and its weaknesses prevent it from doing much else. And that's why this kit is so disastrous, because those weaknesses make the sub and special nearly useless for it.

If you want to play a bottom tier kit, I'm not going to stop you. I just want you to understand what you're getting yourself into. In fact if you're truly determined to try and make it work, the first step to playing any low tier in any game is understanding your weaknesses. You will never get anywhere if you're stuck in denial.
I'm not in denial about anything. The thing I have a problem is with is people seemingly claiming or implying that low tier weapons only have weaknesses and don't have any strengths. In fact, that's how I get a lot of wins in ranked. I play a weapon nobody expects and everyone seems to just dismiss it as soon as they see it. They don't possibly stop to think how good a player could be with that weapon and they only see tiers.
 

Dewnose

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Explo main here, definitely only using this for memes. Explo doesn't really want to ever be near enough to anyone to even use wall, let alone splashdown. Its old kit helps it do more from farther away which imo is way better than trying to patch its close-range weakness.

However I absolutely will be playing aggro explosher every so often because it will be funny. Maybe even more fun than the first kit but I doubt it :P
 

vitellary

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yeah i mean, despite all the back and forth about this kit really sucking i do think it will be fun casually and i do wanna try it out. it's the kind of thing that could never ever fit into a proper team comp, but if you wanna play an aggro explo in anarchy open then this is the kit that lets you do that and it'll work well enough for it
 

WhatTheDevin

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Explo main here, definitely only using this for memes. Explo doesn't really want to ever be near enough to anyone to even use wall, let alone splashdown. Its old kit helps it do more from farther away which imo is way better than trying to patch its close-range weakness.

However I absolutely will be playing aggro explosher every so often because it will be funny. Maybe even more fun than the first kit but I doubt it :p
Yeah, pretty much. I'm gonna play it enough to get the license but then I'll probably never touch it again.
 

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