Final Smash Presentation Discussion

Zombie Aladdin

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I can say with all seriousness that including Pac-Man in the game has made it less fun for me. Same with Sonic. I'm not forced to play as either (except for, y'know, 100% completion which the game hangs over your head) but I am forced to be influenced by their existence thanks to things like online play and random stage selections (I hate just being in the Pac-Man stage with its awful music and environment). It's a false argument to say that the content is just silo'd off only to those who like it.
You must get offended easily. Me, I don't mind any of the characters; I use all of them online, and I look forward to using Corrin and Bayonetta too. (Also, the Pac-Man songs, I feel, are some of the best in the game. I love bhow Hip Tanaka takes 8-bit sounds and makes them into a weird, twisted version of themselves.)

I know the PAC-LAND stage is divisive, however, but I think its MS Paint look is hilarious.

Let Sakurai do what he wants (and let him RECOVER). Which means stop being the director of Smash and let him do creative projects like Meteos, or whatever he wants to do. He dang quit Nintendo to begin with over making sequel after sequel.
Sakurai is no longer associated with Q? Entertainment and is now completely disconnected from the Meteos IP. (So is Tetsuya Mizuguchi, for that matter.) Believe me, I looked into this quite heavily as I am a Meteos fan.

This.
People can mope about Corrin being added all day. That's fine, you don't like the character? That's unfortunate. But trying to make it seem like your distaste is because it's "another sword fighter", or "another Fire Emblem character" just seems like people trying to avoid saying flat out they dislike the character. Thing is, those statements REALLY stretch as they can be applied to most characters. "Great, another Pokemon", "terrific another projectile user", "Oh yay! Another inferior Cpt. Falcon", etc. Having 6 Pokemon isn't a problem. . . Why? "Because they sell more Pokemon games!" No, because you like and don't mind Pokemon characters. Characters aren't decided by how many units the franchise has sold. Otherwise, Cpt. Falcon would not be in Smash. It really just seems like people are looking for arbitrary reasons to shoot down a character they personally don't care about. I'd prefer it if you just said straight out, "I don't like Corrin" or "I don't like Fire Emblem". There's no argument there, that's entirely your opinion on the matter. But don't try and church it up to make it seem like your distaste for this character is justified.

I'm not particularly fond of Bayonetta, but I'm not sitting here complaining about some BS reason like Sakurai's lust for adding over sexualized characters in his games.
I still occasionally see people whine about the number of Pokémon characters and a cry to drop them all except for Pikachu. The bitterness runs rampant for Smash Bros.

Then again, this bitterness pretty much runs rampant for ANY mascot game. I still remember the sheer rage and fury over Hatsune Miku placing 2nd in the DLC poll for Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed to where some of these people vowed to grief any Miku players they saw online as an attempt to make them stop using her. With all the hate piled onto Corrin, I definitely hope we don't see something like this happening for online play for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS. Then again, the online system supposedly will boot people who go after one player and one player alone (even if I have never seen it happen myself). And few fandoms are as bad as the Sonic fandom.
 

BlackZero

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The argument of not liking Game & Watch, Olimar or Nes/Lucas don't properly compare to Corrins situation because not only is Fire Emblem not as big or significant a franchise as these other series but there were already 5 other characters from his respective franchise. To remove the possibility of a new player from either a under represented franchise or a new one just to market a new game can certainly rub players the wrong way.
Pikmin has had only three games, and Earthbound hasn't been relevant since the SNES. Fire Emblem has 12 games, one current gen title and another on the way. I don't see how Earthbound and Pikmin are more significant compared to an older series with more games that is currently popular. Let's say I give you the benefit of the doubt and agree that somehow, Fire Emblem is less significant...as others have already pointed out, two are clones. Thus we can consider Marth, Roy, and Lucina to be one character, bringing the rep count down "Maroyina," Ike, Robin, and Corrin. That is less than the Mario and Zelda characters, and equal to the Pokémon games. Coincidentally, all of those are currently Nintendo's hottest franchises afaik.

Even if I got a step further and say that the clone characters aren't basically one character, that makes Fire Emblem two down from the Mario characters and puts it only one ahead Zelda (two if you count Link/Toon Link a clone) and two ahead Pokémon: all of which are at the top of Nintendo's charts. They are getting about as much representation as the other popular series. Of course it is going to get preferential treatment compared to Punchout or Earthbound, and games like Pikmin don't have the roster to add more characters. Who would they use as a character? A Bulborb?

If Fire Emblem didn't already have 5 other characters representing it then you MIGHT have a point,
Anti-Corrins might have a point if they were equally upset about 9/38 characters (w/o DLC) being from the Mario games. That's almost 1/4 of the roster. Why isn't there the same level of butthurt over the Mario games adding more characters even though they are already a good head and shoulders ahead of any other franchise in terms of representation in Brawl? People don't seem to mind favoritism with certain franchises. It's the exact same principle, only a different series. This is why I say it's a matter of people simply not liking FE. There are no champions of equality parading the streets with Mario taking up a fourth of the roster.

This argument holds more water than you are willing to give it credit for. The problem is the similarity of the sword fighters from FE as well. Robin is actually unique and Corrin is too but the same cannot be said for the rest. The other ranged and brawler characters again are all different and have abilities and gimmicks that make them completely unique from each other in some way. Captain Falcon, Little Mac and Ryu are all brawler type characters but play so differently that it would be ridiculous to say they are the same.
Not really. There's a good deal of difference between Ike, Marth, Pit, Link, Meta Knight, and Robin, so the idea that there are too many sword users really doesn't hold water if we're talking about variety. There are only three clones that are sword users. There are plenty of brawler clones as well, yet people don't seem to be concerned about it (save for Cpt. Ganon).

So, in a way, you are right: this argument holds as much water as people want to give it. I believe they give it too much. It would be very easy for me to say "brawlers are all the same. All they do is punch and kick! Look at all the brawler clones there are!" That doesn't mean it's accurate. It's also rather amusing that, despite people complaining about generic sword users, people actually wanted Roy (a Marth clone AND FE character) in the game.

I cannot reiterate enough that this has more to do with the number of series reps than with the series itself.
So where are the complainers about the Mario series getting more characters? Why bring Peach back AND add Rosalina instead of just making one a skin of the other? Why bring in Bowser Jr./Koopa kids instead of making them Mii outfits or Bowser skins? You can make this complaint with any of the "big three" franchise rosters in this game. It has a lot to do with whether or not you like the characters/franchises.

Also, these DLCs are optional, so blacklash from representation is still a poor explanation. These characters aren't being forced on anyone in any way. I could see it if they were being patched to the main game, but players don't have to buy them. If you don't get the DLC, they aren't in your game and the whole representation issue becomes completely meaningless because these characters aren't in your copy of the game if you don't get them. If you would have preferred someone else, that's fine. Don't make it seem like the devs are ruining the game just because you wanted a different character.

On that note, people actually WANTED Roy back despite FE apparently dominating the roster AND the overflowing number of "generic sword users." Roy was a clone in Melee. It's not like people weren't aware he'd be another Marth Clone. So it's okay to bring Roy (a Marth clone) back even though there are too many FE characters and generic sword users? That is why I feel it's more a matter of people simply not liking Corrin or the new FE games instead of any game balancing or design issues. The backlash is purely arbitrary, as pointed out before.

1.I don't care for Corrin so I simply won't buy the character.
Praise Raptor Jesus, someone gets it!

Awakening focused more on romance and casual play than more players were comfortable with while the main game seemed to suffer. Before going to the internet to see peoples opinion on the games overall quality I had been jokingly been referring to Awakening as 'Waifu Emblem' myself.
I think critics of the game blew this way out of proportion. You can play the entire game without marrying anyone (save for Chrom). It's a legacy feature of sorts handed down by Geneology of the Holy War intended to add some level of customization and stat optimization to a few characters. In that sense, it's not too different from breeding for perfect IVs and natures in Pokémon: it can make for some powerful party members, or a person can completely ignore it. The only difference is window-dressing and the fact that one is Pokémon and the other is Fire Emblem. I'm honestly surprised (and rather amused) that people have no problems with a game basically encouraging eugenics (pairing characters up to create ubermensch children), but the dating/support convos are too much to handle.

People keep throwing the "long time fans" thing around, yet seem to keep forgetting about Geneology (which was before FE crossed the Pacific) and also appear to be completely oblivious to the fact that "support relationships" have been around for most of the series. Granted, these aren't exactly the same as the Love system, but FE:A's love system is the next step in FE's long-time mechanic of pairing certain units up for combat boosts. I suspect most these self-proclaimed long-time fans haven't touched a Fire Emblem game before the GBA, which leaves out over half of the series.

Lastly, the game was made more accessible to casual players, but kept the option for more hardcore play. There are people who can breeze through Lunatic mode after countless hours of practice and developing optimal strategies. I'd be very surprised if someone could pick up the game for the first time and blow through it. Frankly, I think FE:A did a great job of keeping its hard-core qualities while making the game accessible to casual fans. In my experience however, hardcore fans seem to think they are entitled to special consideration from developers but that is a rant for another day.
 
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Of Moose & Men

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I still occasionally see people whine about the number of Pokémon characters and a cry to drop them all except for Pikachu. The bitterness runs rampant for Smash Bros.

Then again, this bitterness pretty much runs rampant for ANY mascot game. I still remember the sheer rage and fury over Hatsune Miku placing 2nd in the DLC poll for Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed to where some of these people vowed to grief any Miku players they saw online as an attempt to make them stop using her. With all the hate piled onto Corrin, I definitely hope we don't see something like this happening for online play for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS. Then again, the online system supposedly will boot people who go after one player and one player alone (even if I have never seen it happen myself). And few fandoms are as bad as the Sonic fandom.
Yea, that's the problem sadly. This new wave of self entitled "gamers". As you pointed out, people get bitter over the smallest things, and feel that the game should some how be catered to them. It's absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it's seeped into Pokemon over the years. "Why didn't X get a mega evolution but Garchomp does?!", "Why did they give Mawile a mega Evolution, no body uses it!", "As if Mewtwo needed a mega Evolution." It's beginning to get REALLY old. No matter what game I play, someone has something to complain about, and get their panties in a wad over. People can dislike something, they don't have to mope and whine about it, see; this thread. Smash Bros has them, Pokemon has them, Splatoon has them, hell even Fire Emblem has them. It's a relatively new thing, and it's getting quite aggravating.

I sadly don't see it coming to an end any time soon. If anything, it'll just get worse.
 

BlackZero

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Yea, that's the problem sadly. This new wave of self entitled "gamers". As you pointed out, people get bitter over the smallest things, and feel that the game should some how be catered to them. It's absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it's seeped into Pokemon over the years. "Why didn't X get a mega evolution but Garchomp does?!", "Why did they give Mawile a mega Evolution, no body uses it!", "As if Mewtwo needed a mega Evolution." It's beginning to get REALLY old. No matter what game I play, someone has something to complain about, and get their panties in a wad over. People can dislike something, they don't have to mope and whine about it, see; this thread. Smash Bros has them, Pokemon has them, Splatoon has them, hell even Fire Emblem has them. It's a relatively new thing, and it's getting quite aggravating.

I sadly don't see it coming to an end any time soon. If anything, it'll just get worse.
That's just immaturity. The next generation will drive us nuts with it just like we drove our parents' generation crazy with this sort of thing. Then the generation after the next will drive them crazy while we sit in our nursing home wheelchairs and try to play Super Mario Bros. 3 with our arthritic claws for hands. That is the circle of life.
 

PrinceOfKoopas

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Well, Sakurai himself weighs in: "After internal analysis, we decided that if we’re going to make DLC, we would choose a character from a soon-to-be-released new game. After consulting many times with Nintendo and looking at the upcoming release schedule, Fire Emblem Fates was in just the right spot. It’s already been released in Japan, but is yet to be released overseas, making it a prime candidate in terms of timing. I personally felt that having too many Fire Emblem characters was a problem, but after talking it over with the development staff and discussing logistics, I felt certain that I could make them a fun character."

...Guess that's the end of the discussion?
 

Draayder

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Well, Sakurai himself weighs in: "After internal analysis, we decided that if we’re going to make DLC, we would choose a character from a soon-to-be-released new game. After consulting many times with Nintendo and looking at the upcoming release schedule, Fire Emblem Fates was in just the right spot. It’s already been released in Japan, but is yet to be released overseas, making it a prime candidate in terms of timing. I personally felt that having too many Fire Emblem characters was a problem, but after talking it over with the development staff and discussing logistics, I felt certain that I could make them a fun character."

...Guess that's the end of the discussion?
I was just about to post the same article, kinda of funny that it might not have been a FE rep if not for the dev staff convincing him to go for it. Also a pretty decent "Sakurai can't do anything and everything he wants to do in a game, he's still gotta discuss it with the higher ups" example.
 

Pivi

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That's weird, another website I read said that Sakurai agreed that there were too many FE characters even before Corrin and only did it because he was told, and was convinced that he could make an interesting moveset. From what I gathered, if it was up to Sakurai and only Sakurai, we'd be having a much different thread.

Anyway, I think Smash character representation being proportionate to their sales is a pretty logical argument. No one complains about Mario characters being common (except Bowser Jr, whateven was that choice) because it's...Mario, the face of Nintendo. Same with Pokemon, Zelda, ect.

When people say "There are too many FE guys in Smash" they mean "FE as a series isn't big enough to warrant having 6 characters", but all the Mario characters are okay because Mario is huge, and it'd be weird for Bowser or Peach not to be here. It just seems peculiar that a series that aims to be a casual party game takes characters from a niche JRPG that has questionable international success, but I really don't feel like getting into another argument.

I think someone said it earlier, but a lot of uproar about Corrin is just misplaced anger about their pick not getting in, because, honest to god there were significantly better choices, I don't wanna go as far as to say they have the RIGHT to be mad, but their anger is understandable from a bunch of perspectives.

I'm bailing out of this thread, but I just wanna say that Corrin, overall was the worst possible character anyone could've picked to be in Smash and I ain't buying him because of this, so I hope everyone who agrees with me also doesn't buy him so hopefully Nintendo will lose more than they gain on Corrin and realize that this was a bad move. Fight with your wallets, people.
 

PrinceOfKoopas

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Anyway, I think Smash character representation being proportionate to their sales is a pretty logical argument. No one complains about Mario characters being common (except Bowser Jr, whateven was that choice) because it's...Mario, the face of Nintendo. Same with Pokemon, Zelda, ect.
EXCUSE ME.
I RATHER ENJOY BEING PLAYABLE.
Even if it means it's Bowser Jr. as the front-guy.
 

MissingNumbers

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I'm bailing out of this thread, but I just wanna say that Corrin, overall was the worst possible character anyone could've picked to be in Smash and I ain't buying him because of this, so I hope everyone who agrees with me also doesn't buy him so hopefully Nintendo will lose more than they gain on Corrin and realize that this was a bad move. Fight with your wallets, people.
This just comes off as one of those boycott movements that never make sense and never work. What is the big issue on Corrin that makes him the worst possible choice? Sakurai and team wanted to represent a recent game, and even though Sakurai is concerned about over-representation, a very, very interesting moveset came out of that choice.

On that note, I personally don't even care about who the character is or what they represent, as long as they're a fun character to play as, and Corrin definitely looks like a fun character.
 

DarkGold777

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That's weird, another website I read said that Sakurai agreed that there were too many FE characters even before Corrin and only did it because he was told, and was convinced that he could make an interesting moveset. From what I gathered, if it was up to Sakurai and only Sakurai, we'd be having a much different thread.

Anyway, I think Smash character representation being proportionate to their sales is a pretty logical argument. No one complains about Mario characters being common (except Bowser Jr, whateven was that choice) because it's...Mario, the face of Nintendo. Same with Pokemon, Zelda, ect.

When people say "There are too many FE guys in Smash" they mean "FE as a series isn't big enough to warrant having 6 characters", but all the Mario characters are okay because Mario is huge, and it'd be weird for Bowser or Peach not to be here. It just seems peculiar that a series that aims to be a casual party game takes characters from a niche JRPG that has questionable international success, but I really don't feel like getting into another argument.

I think someone said it earlier, but a lot of uproar about Corrin is just misplaced anger about their pick not getting in, because, honest to god there were significantly better choices, I don't wanna go as far as to say they have the RIGHT to be mad, but their anger is understandable from a bunch of perspectives.

I'm bailing out of this thread, but I just wanna say that Corrin, overall was the worst possible character anyone could've picked to be in Smash and I ain't buying him because of this, so I hope everyone who agrees with me also doesn't buy him so hopefully Nintendo will lose more than they gain on Corrin and realize that this was a bad move. Fight with your wallets, people.
The worst possible character anyone could have picked in Smash IN YOUR OPINION. At least make THAT obvious, even if I appear too blunt in asking so.

Anyways, I'm fighting with my wallet...in favor of Corrin. I do not share your opinion that Corrin being in Smash was a bad move. I'm actually interested to play as him/her, and I like his/her concept as a character that can change into a dragon, not to mention comes from a series I like and a game I'm interested in getting in the future, and not because of the "waifu mechanics" and "fanservice" a good chunk of detractors love to obsess over. I also don't care about him being another FE character and another guy who holds a sword, because I personally don't feel that's enough to make this decision of mine unanomously or favorably dimwitted in any way.

So I'm buying the DLC and helping the case against it being a bad move.
 

Zombie Aladdin

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Yeah, as I use every character online and let the randomizer choose who I use, I'm going to pick up Corrin as well. I don't really care where he's from or who he is, just that he looks pretty interesting as a Smash Bros. character. I'd probably view him in much the same way I do Mr. Game & Watch or Ice Climbers: Any background about the character is trivia to me.
 

Newtonjar

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Man, the salt in this thread is awful. I understand that we wanted inklings, but it didn't happen, whatever. I truly do believe that inkling will make it into the next game. And anybody who complains about bayonetta, we literally voted her in, calm down.
 

Litagano Motscoud

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I'm bailing out of this thread, but I just wanna say that Corrin, overall was the worst possible character anyone could've picked to be in Smash and I ain't buying him because of this, so I hope everyone who agrees with me also doesn't buy him so hopefully Nintendo will lose more than they gain on Corrin and realize that this was a bad move. Fight with your wallets, people.
Good luck with that. I'm sure the number of people who disagree with you or don't care outnumber the people who do agree with you. I, for one, disagree with you. :V
 

Kayura05

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Pikmin has had only three games, and Earthbound hasn't been relevant since the SNES. Fire Emblem has 12 games, one current gen title and another on the way. I don't see how Earthbound and Pikmin are more significant compared to an older series with more games that is currently popular. Let's say I give you the benefit of the doubt and agree that somehow, Fire Emblem is less significant...as others have already pointed out, two are clones. Thus we can consider Marth, Roy, and Lucina to be one character, bringing the rep count down "Maroyina," Ike, Robin, and Corrin. That is less than the Mario and Zelda characters, and equal to the Pokémon games. Coincidentally, all of those are currently Nintendo's hottest franchises afaik.
I used to word significant to emphasize importance of the overall franchise globally and to Nintendo as a company. Plus all those other franchises are "classic" franchises or at least 1st party ones. FE should be considered more niche even considering its age.

Even if I got a step further and say that the clone characters aren't basically one character, that makes Fire Emblem two down from the Mario characters and puts it only one ahead Zelda (two if you count Link/Toon Link a clone) and two ahead Pokémon: all of which are at the top of Nintendo's charts. They are getting about as much representation as the other popular series. Of course it is going to get preferential treatment compared to Punchout or Earthbound, and games like Pikmin don't have the roster to add more characters. Who would they use as a character? A Bulborb?
There aren't a lack of characters to use from those other franchises even if you are just adding one or two characters. Though I was never arguing for equal reps for all games in the first place. Nevertheless there are still too many similar characters from the FE series, which was my original point.

Anti-Corrins might have a point if they were equally upset about 9/38 characters (w/o DLC) being from the Mario games. That's almost 1/4 of the roster. Why isn't there the same level of butthurt over the Mario games adding more characters even though they are already a good head and shoulders ahead of any other franchise in terms of representation in Brawl? People don't seem to mind favoritism with certain franchises. It's the exact same principle, only a different series. This is why I say it's a matter of people simply not liking FE. There are no champions of equality parading the streets with Mario taking up a fourth of the roster.
Funny you should say that, as I would like even MORE Mario characters. The problem with Corrin is more that the FE series has more than doubled its reps in a single game while some franchises either still have one or even lost some. You keep saying that only anti FE fans are saying these things and that is clearly not the case. Unsurprisingly like fans of anything, people are simply going to have different opinions on these things.

Not really. There's a good deal of difference between Ike, Marth, Pit, Link, Meta Knight, and Robin, so the idea that there are too many sword users really doesn't hold water if we're talking about variety. There are only three clones that are sword users. There are plenty of brawler clones as well, yet people don't seem to be concerned about it (save for Cpt. Ganon).
That's why those are good sword characters, they actually do offer variety. Though honestly I think the game would benefit from more completely unorthodox fighters like Game & Watch and R.O.B. The problem with the FE reps are twofold, there are a lot from a series that is only semi popular and not as iconic and almost all of them use the same weapon in the same ways. There are a myriad of weapon users from the FE franchise, a lance user or archer would have been great. And as far as the other clone type characters of the two you mentioned, they are at least from different series and aren't complete clones.

So, in a way, you are right: this argument holds as much water as people want to give it. I believe they give it too much. It would be very easy for me to say "brawlers are all the same. All they do is punch and kick! Look at all the brawler clones there are!" That doesn't mean it's accurate. It's also rather amusing that, despite people complaining about generic sword users, people actually wanted Roy (a Marth clone AND FE character) in the game.
There are always going to be people who take things too far or who get overly dramatic about things. But that doesn't mean the people who share the same thought can't also have valid arguments. As long as you air your opinion respectfully it is just as valid as anyone elses. Oh and I was one of those people who wanted Roy back, he was always better than Marth to me and I would have been fine with him instead of Marth.

So where are the complainers about the Mario series getting more characters? Why bring Peach back AND add Rosalina instead of just making one a skin of the other? Why bring in Bowser Jr./Koopa kids instead of making them Mii outfits or Bowser skins? You can make this complaint with any of the "big three" franchise rosters in this game. It has a lot to do with whether or not you like the characters/franchises.
Perhaps because we understand the importance of the franchise or more importantly almost every character is unique and adds to game in that way. I personally didn't feel that Bowser Jr. was necessary but they at least kept the other koopalings as skns. You keep trying to frame this as a 'only people who dislike FE don't like Corrin or the other reps' argument and there are more sides to it than that. ARE there people who are making this solely about FE and their contempt of the games? Of course, but they aren't the only ones and there are other reasons to support this view. I am merely trying to represent that side.

Also, these DLCs are optional, so blacklash from representation is still a poor explanation. These characters aren't being forced on anyone in any way. I could see it if they were being patched to the main game, but players don't have to buy them. If you don't get the DLC, they aren't in your game and the whole representation issue becomes completely meaningless because these characters aren't in your copy of the game if you don't get them. If you would have preferred someone else, that's fine. Don't make it seem like the devs are ruining the game just because you wanted a different character.
If I were making those sort of assertions then perhaps, as it stands I haven't made any declarations of "RUINED FOREVER".

On that note, people actually WANTED Roy back despite FE apparently dominating the roster AND the overflowing number of "generic sword users." Roy was a clone in Melee. It's not like people weren't aware he'd be another Marth Clone. So it's okay to bring Roy (a Marth clone) back even though there are too many FE characters and generic sword users? That is why I feel it's more a matter of people simply not liking Corrin or the new FE games instead of any game balancing or design issues. The backlash is purely arbitrary, as pointed out before.

Roy is mah boi! That doesn't mean I want more clones or FE reps that are sword users as well. Even though I had been wanting Lynn since she appeared as a assist trophy but that was way back when.


I think critics of the game blew this way out of proportion. You can play the entire game without marrying anyone (save for Chrom). It's a legacy feature of sorts handed down by Geneology of the Holy War intended to add some level of customization and stat optimization to a few characters. In that sense, it's not too different from breeding for perfect IVs and natures in Pokémon: it can make for some powerful party members, or a person can completely ignore it. The only difference is window-dressing and the fact that one is Pokémon and the other is Fire Emblem. I'm honestly surprised (and rather amused) that people have no problems with a game basically encouraging eugenics (pairing characters up to create ubermensch children), but the dating/support convos are too much to handle.
Depends on the critique, if I claimed the game was unplayable because of it then yes. Saying it added nothing much to the game or the story is opinion and a legitimate critique. Though I understand why it was used I am not a fan of the execution, I would hesitate to compare it to pokemon breeding as we are playing with actual characters with personalities. It comes across as a cheap attempt to implement dating sim style mechanics in the game with units that have enhanced stats as the reward.

People keep throwing the "long time fans" thing around, yet seem to keep forgetting about Geneology (which was before FE crossed the Pacific) and also appear to be completely oblivious to the fact that "support relationships" have been around for most of the series. Granted, these aren't exactly the same as the Love system, but FE:A's love system is the next step in FE's long-time mechanic of pairing certain units up for combat boosts. I suspect most these self-proclaimed long-time fans haven't touched a Fire Emblem game before the GBA, which leaves out over half of the series.
This is a digression and is probably not your intention but that statement reeks of 'True Fan' arguments. Asserting that only people who have so much experience with a franchise can properly make certain criticisms of a game. It's not as if there is no frame of reference for these mechanics, they just were not as big a part of older games in the way they were in Awakening. (I won't spoil anything for Fates so I won't say how it's implemented there.)

Even if someone only had access to games that were released in their country, why would they still not be counted as a long term fan? What if they don't have access to the systems some of the other games are on, are they not a real fan? What arbitrary number of games in a franchise does someone have to play in order for their opinion on a feature to matter? That's also ignoring that people who have played the games since the SNES days may still not like the feature or Awakening/Fates. Using the pokemon example you brought up, if someone says they don't like breeding or competitive battling despite how long it has existed and complains about it. Should you dismiss their opinion just because they only experienced games since the late DS era? If so why?

Lastly, the game was made more accessible to casual players, but kept the option for more hardcore play. There are people who can breeze through Lunatic mode after countless hours of practice and developing optimal strategies. I'd be very surprised if someone could pick up the game for the first time and blow through it. Frankly, I think FE:A did a great job of keeping its hard-core qualities while making the game accessible to casual fans. In my experience however, hardcore fans seem to think they are entitled to special consideration from developers but that is a rant for another day.
I said the exact same thing earlier so we agree on more points than we thought. I never said that implementing modes that allow for casual play was a bad thing, as long as you find a way to equally appeal to the established fanbase then everyone should be fine.

About the hardcore fans point, I can see both sides of that issue somewhat. I think some hardcore fans feel that by appealing to more causal audiences that there is a risk of the franchise becoming more and more casual or easy over time in order to stay profitable and keep the new players coming back. Now those fears could be unfounded, IS has somewhat tried to address this with the 3 versions of the game. I'm just not sure how I feel about the harder route being linked to specific games.

In a way this reminds me of the whole Casual/Hardcore debate that occasionally still goes on when discussing the original Wii. I know people who still feel that the Wii was profitable but ultimately failed because Nintendo didn't seem to retain all of the new players the system attracted. Though I blame part of that to mobile game market explosion that made phones the equivalent of a handheld for a lot of people. I suppose the true test will be if FE went back to more punishing or difficult games would those who came in on Awakening or Fates stay.

I will repsond to your earlier comment later, don't view this are me arguing with you or trying to change your mind though. I like discussing these types of things with people and can get long winded in my replys. If all else fails we can settle it in Smash! 1v1 me, 3 stocks, no items on final destination. :)
 

Elecmaw

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I feel like this whole "The complainer is always wrong!" attitude some of you've adopted is equally wrong, it's fine that you like the new dlc but there's always going to be people who don't like the new choices for characters? I see a lot of safe replies of "well he sure looks like a fun character to play as, you guys just need to deal with it, haha look at the nerds salty over anime swordsmen" and forgetting that well, some people just don't like/care about the dlc.
In fact, i think people forgot about the original topic here completely and just decided to trade quips with people who hate FE and people who like it, because if i may get honest it's representation is getting a bit overboard in SSB (And in this topic, too).

(by the way, have anyone seen those inkling miis with the dlc hats? those things look utterly horrifying)

I know some of the anti-Corrin/Bayonetta people haven't been exactly reasonable in this topic, but isn't it just allright if people don't care or outright not like him/her? I don't care about Corrin, Cloud or Bayonetta. I'd rather have Inklings over them, while i'm not going to start a protest or get excessively salty over it (let's face it, that's not going to change anything) i feel more like "meh, let's move on", leave SSB4 be and just keep playing Splatoon. It's allright being dissapointed in something and i'd certainly wouldn't consider that being salty.
 

Leronne

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(by the way, have anyone seen those inkling miis with the dlc hats? those things look utterly horrifying)
it's the mii's nintendo used that made them look so ugly. there actually some good inkling mii's like so.

also while i'm at it, i might as well link a few articles here. sakurai recently did an interview for famitsu and talked about the recent DLC characters.
this is the full interview roughly translated and this is a brief summary of what he said.
 
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PrinceOfKoopas

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also while i'm at it, i might as well link a few articles here. sakurai recently did an interview for famitsu and talked about the recent DLC characters.
this is the full interview roughly translated and this is a brief summary of what he said.
I already linked it here. ♪
http://squidboards.com/threads/final-smash-presentation-discussion.19495/page-7#post-138054
(So on the same page.)

By the way @Kayura05 I'm trying to take you up on that offer. ...even if we agree.
 

Pivi

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Woaaah, I was not expecting that much backlash on what I thought was a pretty reasonable post. I don't like Corrin, nor the series he comes from and I think he was a really bad choice, so I'm not buying him. I figured more people would feel the same but I guess people will play anything lol
EXCUSE ME.
I RATHER ENJOY BEING PLAYABLE.
Even if it means it's Bowser Jr. as the front-guy.
My bad lol I just never saw him coming
 

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