Hard data: Gear abilities percentual effects!

[Yhdiste]

Hey, great thread.

I have a specific question about diminishing returns (DR), regarding Subs.
Is there a DR if you spread 3 subs across the gear? (and if you have no main ability of that kind)
1 sub Run speed (Head)
1 sub Run speed (Body)
1 sub Run speed (Shoes)
This means they are not on the same gear and maybe provide 22.5% Run speed in that case.

It doesn't matter whether the sub abilities are on the same gear or spread across different gears. So to answer your question, you would still receive a +15% boost.
I'll add this information to the "good to know"-section.

This is quite useful. However, I don't believe that the damage statistics are completely correct. From what I've tested, I believe that damage boosts caps are different for each gun, to prevent them from splatting in any fewer hits than the default. For example, the Splattershot Pro normally splats in three hits, and no matter how many damage boosts are on it, I haven't been able to increase its damage above 49.9. I haven't done extensive testing on this myself (just with the Splattershot Pro and the Dual Squelcher), but I think I've seen it confirmed by others somewhere on the forum.

Another point, which could stand more testing, is that regardless of what percents damage and defense boosts increase/decrease damage by, it seems that equal numbers of each boost cancel each other.
For example, one damage boost on the attacker and one defense boost on the defender will cause shots to deal normal damage, while 2 damage boosts and 1 defense would cause a net gain of 1 undiminished damage boost.

As I said, this could use more extensive testing, but from what I've done so far, this seems accurate.

Thank you for all your work on this!

Your work is accurate. This information is available on the Splatoon Guidebook.

There is a cap on Damage Up that prevents weapons from reducing the amount of hits they need to kill. This means .96 Gal will always kill in 2 hits and so on.
This is why Damage Up is only useful for:

- weapons with blast damage (bombs, blasters, roller flicking, etc)
- when your ink has already reached its peak and started falling down (ink does lower damage after that happens)
- negating defense up
- weapons that are in the "lower values" of the damage range (each individual shot will be stronger, even though you still require the same amount of hits to kill).

Previously I had written the same values for Damage Up and Defense Up, because it is generally considered that the boosts negate each other in practice. Meaning that even though 1x Damage Up gives 4% more damage than 1x Defense Up gives defense, that amount is not enough to make any difference in practise.

 

[Inkay]

Ninja Squid is now -15% swim speed in 1.3

 

[SquiddiamFancyson]

Ninja Squid is now -15% swim speed in 1.3

Reddit has found a 10% difference from 5 to 5.5 in testing. I'm thinking it's 10% from testing myself but if it's 15% that's much harsher since 3 subs doesn't cancel the penalty now.

 

[Agosta44]

Someone made a few comparison videos for the stealth ability nerfs.

Swim Speed ~10% penalty

Stealth Jump 5.47s -> 6.98s

No one should ever use Stealth Jump.

 

[SquiddiamFancyson]

Someone made a few comparison videos for the stealth ability nerfs.

Swim Speed ~10% penalty

Stealth Jump 5.47s -> 6.98s

No one should ever use Stealth Jump.

That's actually so sad about stealth jump. One of the lesser used but still awesome specials has just become completely invalidated. This is why nerfs sometimes suck. They handled ninja squid perfectly though.

Any news on ink resistance? I recognise it's hard to test but would be interesting to hear feedback.

 

[Yhdiste]

Added information about Ninja Squid after 1.3 patch. The penalty has been increased to 10%. Other people have reached that conclusion as well.

Added information about Stealth Jump after 1.3 patch. The penalty has been increased to 20%. That Japanese video shows the same result.

Added initial information about Ink Resistance Up. It seems like you move 50% slower while in enemy ink. When standing in enemy ink, you reach the maximum damage in 3 seconds (before it was 6). No changes to jumping speed or height penalties. I will try to test movement speed better.

 

[Chocolil]

What math am I doing wrong? Shouldn't this have been 100%?

 

[Yhdiste]

What math am I doing wrong? Shouldn't this have been 100%?

Yes, I believe so.
It should give you 100% of the amount of special meter you had at the time of your death. So if you died with full meter, you should respawn with full meter.

I would be very interested to know if this is not the case.

 

[Chocolil]

Yes, I believe so.
It should give you 100% of the amount of special meter you had at the time of your death. So if you died with full meter, you should respawn with full meter.

I would be very interested to know if this is not the case.

This was my gauge after getting splatted with a full charge.

 

[Yhdiste]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Based on these screens, I have to admit that my numbers for Special Saver are wrong.

It looks like you would need one more Main Ability to reach the maximum. So this would mean that each sub ability is ~4.2% instead of 6.75.
So Special Saver is not an exception then, 3x subs = 1x Main ability stands true for it as well.

I apologize for providing false information. I deduced the numbers by looking at the special meter from screenshots (with different amount of abilities equipped), but since I didn't have as many abilities as you did, a ~2.5% difference was quite hard to see as you might image :)

 

[Chocolil]

It's cool yo.

At least now I know that 100% is currently impossible for my default set even if I hit 3 subs on the shoe without rolling my top. Going for 100% probably isn't the best anyway unless you are super jumping right back into the front lines. I think I'll try going for ~80% by switching back to my ink resistance shoes and going for 2 sub special saver. That's assuming I'm doing the math correctly. 7 sub abilities no?

Are there any numbers for the Comeback skill?

 

[JSUNLEE]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think it's important to note that according to your math for abilities that have diminishing returns, after the initial ability, be it main or sub, 3 subs become greater than 1 main (after scaling kicks in). Ex: 1 main run speed= +15%, after that, another main would be 7.50%, but at that point 3 subs would be 11.25%. So for stacking abilities with diminishing returns, and without, it would be more optimal to favor 3 of that ability as a sub instead of a main.

In the case of abilities without diminishing returns, according to your math, we see that 1 main ink saver (main) is +13%, but 3 subs are 21%. In most cases 3 subs > 1 main. For the cases with diminishing returns, this is true after the scaling kicks in, for the cases without diminishing returns, this is always true.

My question for you, is when does scaling kick in? For instance, which ability does the game take for its full value before scaling the others? Would it be the main ability on a hat (because from left to right, it's technically the "first" ability you have)?

 

[Soul Train]

Nice work putting the time into this, the community appreciates it. One of us might want to change the title of our threads though (mine here), having two with such similar names might be confusing to people.

However a good amount of these numbers are wrong. There are definitely diminishing returns on Special Saver, and from my testing right now on special duration up as well. What is your testing process? I undertook ~50 trials for each ability, involved several outside opinions to find my numbers, and those stats don't match these.

I don't care if my stats are wrong, the point here is getting the numbers right for the community. Let's work together to quadruple check and update the respective threads.

 

[Yhdiste]

@JSUNLEE: Thank you for the feedback. It does seem weird, so I have taken it back to testing. Oversights like this is why I actively follow this thread.


@Soul Train: Oh, hahah. We had poor coincidence with the naming. I would gladly change this topic's name if I could (I just tried to edit it, but it only allows me to edit the post). Maybe a moderator could remove the "hard data"-part of this thread?


As for the numbers, I have tried to avoid skills that rely on visual estimation. That is why I got Special saver wrong and why I haven't felt confident about posting any information regarding Ink Saver (Sub). However, I believe the rest of the skills are solid. I believe this is also pointed out by the “fact” that a lot of the skills seem to function the same way. For example if there isn't any diminishing returns, it means the sub ability is usually directly one third of the main ability’s amount and with diminishing returns, the effect is usually halved after the first main/sub.

As for my test procedures, I do around 30-35 takes for each individual ability (1x main, 2x main, 3x main, 1x sub , 2x subs, 3x subs). So around 150-200 takes for each ability overall. This is to ensure that I get as consistent in the performance as possible (for example I might deviate a bit from the straight line while running/swimming a long distance). I don’t consult others while testing because I have no way to know how reliable their results are, but I do have confidence in the reliability of my own. After I have tested an ability, I post the results and see if others have gotten similar results (like in the case of 1.3 nerfs). I also wait for feedback, and if reasonable doubt arises, I determine if it’s enough to take the ability back into testing.

Like you, I think the aim is to provide accurate information for the community. From the looks of your spreadsheet (if it is up to date), you have several skills left to test. I hope that once you have conducted your tests, we could “compare notes” and work together to determine the values accurately (if there are clear differences).

Also, I noticed that in the spreadsheet it reads that you are not sure how Tenacity works? I am very familiar with the skill, so I can inform you that it activates when your team has less members alive in the match. The effect increases the more teammates are dead compared to the enemy. For example 1 person difference = quite slow fill up rate. 2 person difference = noticeable difference, etc. However, I don't have exact values for it because it is very hard ability to test alone. Maybe this is one ability where we could team up during testing as well?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

quick respawn

 

[KnightMB]

Also, I noticed that in the spreadsheet it reads that you are not sure how Tenacity works? I am very familiar with the skill, so I can inform you that it activates when your team has less members alive in the match. The effect increases the more teammates are dead compared to the enemy. For example 1 person difference = quite slow fill up rate. 2 person difference = noticeable difference, etc. However, I don't have exact values for it because it is very hard ability to test alone. Maybe this is one ability where we could team up during testing as well?

A great way to test it, get enough people on the same team to help of course. Choose a map where you can walk right off the spawn point and splat (Walleye Warehouse or Saltspray Rig) Then you can get a systematic test with 1 player walking off, dies. Respawns, then 2 players walk off at the same time, splat. Then have 3 team members walk off and splat at the same time. Should be a good way to see instant results. :)

 

[UnLucky]

Added information about Bomb-Range Up.

Reasoning of Bomb-Range Up.
Default range is 3.5 lines.
1x Main ability brings it to 4 lines.
2x Main abilities bring it to 4.5 lines.
3x Main abilities bring it to 5 lines.
1x Sub ability brings it to 3.66(?) lines.
2x Sub abilities bring it to 3.83(?) lines.
3x Sub abilities bring it to 4 lines.

Oh, you're including the roll on Splat Bombs, not the point where they land (with the guide line). That threw me off since it was so wildly different from my own testing.

But on closer inspection with the same setup, 1xMain is >4 lines, while 3xMain is <5 lines. You can tell by the amount of ink spread on each side. In fact, 2x is >4.5, so even if 3x is exactly 5 (it's definitely the closest thing), that still shows diminishing returns of some kind. Default also looks >3.5 lines.

Was hoping the datamining could reveal everything concretely, but it seems like it's just default/max values in the files; nothing about main/sub slots at all, so those must be calculated elsewhere. I originally only started rough testing for my own use until someone could do it more precisely, but even my more accurate results like Special Saver or Ink Saver (Sub) show signs of diminishing returns. For Ink Saver, it's more like 8%/14%/18% for 1/2/3 main abilities respectively, or a +8%/+6%/+4% difference, and not a flat 6% each.

 

[Poxnixles]

I'm capable of having a gear set with Run Speed Up 3x Main + 5x Sub, which hits the cap of 50% according to your calculations. How should I run (ha) tests on this?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I'm capable of having a gear set with Run Speed Up 3x Main + 5x Sub, which hits the cap of 50% according to your calculations. How should I run (ha) tests on this?

 

[Poxnixles]

Yeah but that doesn't have 3x Main + 5x Sub. Was also thinking of incorporating weapons that are firing into a test.