Is there a reason why brushes as a class have always been buffed for multiplayer and never nerfed?

[missingno]

Early on they gave it the tiniest changes that had no real impact, and then they left it alone for nearly a year - check the dates on those patches. Yeah, it got included in 8.0 giving a bunch of weapons +10% to Wall, but that's an even more meaningless change not worth getting excited about. It can hardly even be called a buff to Aerospray specifically, it's a comically tiny nerf to Wall. I'm not counting 8.0.

My point is that they haven't done anything that would've actually mattered. It's always stayed bottom tier the whole time. And the same goes for a number of other eternally bottom tier weapons that, if they haven't gotten real buffs by now, I think it's safe to say they never will.

 

[McSquid82]

they haven't touched it at all.

This is from a post that you made, remember? More specifically, you used the words at all. You tried to pull a fast one and hope I couldn't be bothered to check the patch notes. If it really hadn't been touched at all, the version history would be empty. It doesn't matter how little you think the changes matter, the fact is that they happened.

 

[missingno]

Sigh. You're being overly literal in an effort to deliberately miss the point.

 

[McSquid82]

Sigh. You're being overly literal in an effort to deliberately miss the point.

I don't care if how literal I'm being. You tried to make up a narrative about Nintendo not touching it and I called you out on it, proving you wrong. Just admit it, or at the very least that you were exaggerating. If it helps, you should know something about me. I'm very literal minded and I'll never be the life of the party, but that's just the way I am. That's just the honest truth.

 

[missingno]

You've missed the point.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I don't care if how literal I'm being. You tried to make up a narrative about Nintendo not touching it and I called you out on it, proving you wrong.

Whether his statement was technically wrong or not is beside the point. Either way, nothing meaningful was done to the brush.

 

[DzNutsKong]

mostly copy pasting this from discord bc i'm too tired to care enough to make a full post out of this. still worth saying

there were points where each of the octobrush kits saw use at top level and i know of at least one inkbrush player that is high, possibly top level. actually played against them a long time ago funny enough, their tag is cloudspore and they totally kicked my butt. haven't been on social media enough to have seen anything from them in a while so i don't know if they're still playing or whatever.

it's not like a weapon's placement in the tier list even matters anywhere below top level. you are still fully capable of using and enjoying whatever weapons and trying to push them and their playstyles to whatever heights you can. i've literally seen bloblobber one-tricks and clash blaster players that are at reasonably high divs too believe it or not. you can play what you want as long as you can find people who want to play with you.

 

[McSquid82]

We wer

Whether his statement was technically wrong or not is beside the point. Either way, nothing meaningful was done to the brush.

We were talking about the Aerospray actually. As far as brushes go, the entire point of this thread was that they've received nothing but buffs over the entire series history. Whether they're competitive or not is up for debate, but they're certainly better than they used to be. By the way, thank you Kong. I'm not good with words and you just said what I've been trying to say this whole time.

 

[missingno]

No one's saying you can't ever win with a weaker weapon. But why would you expect them to nerf a weapon that already isn't that good?

 

[neonscreenlight]

ah so this is why squidboards went down i see

 

[McSquid82]

No one's saying you can't ever win with a weaker weapon. But why would you expect them to nerf a weapon that already isn't that good?

That's what I said when OPW suggested nerfing the Painbrush's ink consumption. He's already admitted to not liking brushes and that's the only reason I can think of to even suggest something like this other than salt. The thing was barely functional before the buffs and a nerf would just put it right back where it started.

 

[OnePotWonder]

No one's saying you can't ever win with a weaker weapon. But why would you expect them to nerf a weapon that already isn't that good?

This has been an annoyance for me to deal with in trying to come up with balance changes for a lot of weapons in order to make them less annoying. You can’t nerf a Clash Blaster or a Bloblobber despite the fact that doing so would make the game better for every other weapon. They’re too weak for it to be justifiable.

In the case of Painbrush, it’s almost as much of a nuisance. Once it starts flicking it never stops, effectively controlling all of the space within its reach for a ridiculously long time. It really should get an ink consumption nerf, and a drastic one; it should only be able to flick ten times. That way, it’s not nearly as much of a nuisance anymore, because there’s more time where it can’t do anything. Shave off some of its startup frames as compensation, sure, but I would say the brush is fine with just the nerf. And that’s just one of them.
It and the both other brushes should be nerfed because they’re objectively awful weapons from a design standpoint (and compared to splatanas which do an infinitely better job of filling a similar role), but they can’t because they’re bad in comp play. It’s very frustrating.

Really, in a perfect game, these weapons just shouldn’t exist in their current states.

 

[McSquid82]

This has been an annoyance for me to deal with in trying to come up with balance changes for a lot of weapons in order to make them less annoying. You can’t nerf a Clash Blaster or a Bloblobber despite the fact that doing so would make the game better for every other weapon. They’re too weak for it to be justifiable.

In the case of Painbrush, it’s almost as much of a nuisance. Once it starts flicking it never stops, effectively controlling all of the space within its reach for a ridiculously long time. It really should get an ink consumption nerf, and a drastic one; it should only be able to flick ten times. That way, it’s not nearly as much of a nuisance anymore, because there’s more time where it can’t do anything. Shave off some of its startup frames as compensation, sure, but I would say the brush is fine with just the nerf. And that’s just one of them.
It and the both other brushes should be nerfed because they’re objectively awful weapons from a design standpoint (and compared to splatanas which do an infinitely better job of filling a similar role), but they can’t because they’re bad in comp play. It’s very frustrating.

Really, in a perfect game, these weapons just shouldn’t exist in their current states.

No they're not. What you're suggesting would basically delete brushes from the game. You just dislike the class and that's the real reason you want it nerfed. The good news is that the nerfs you're calling for are never going to happen from a developer standpoint and I'm glad for it. All you can do is just rage and vent on here and you can't do anything about it.

 

[isaac4]

All you can do is just rage and vent on here and you can't do anything about it.

It's not that serious.

 

[DeNA/デナ NOT A TEC COMPANY]

it seems your point is, "are brushes a bad?!??!?"
... yeah they've never been godly, other than a few map modes and baller spam in S2 since it was 170p baller ._.
everyone should tell me if i'm missing any, but i still want to ask for the reader to do that :p

 

[McSquid82]

It's not that serious.

I know it's not, but the nerfs he's proposing are insane and unreasonable. He's basically turned this entire thread into his own personal hate letter for brushes. I get it, but I meant for this thread to be a discussion thread about brushes and not just dump on them nonstop. As for DeNA, I'm not asking that. OPW is the one taking all these shots at brushes every chance he gets. I'm just asking if after all these buffs without any nerfs, if brushes are finally starting to get to a place where they're good at what they do. In other words, do they have competitive potential. I'll even try to list exemples.

For the two games before this brushes were classified as rollers. Now that they've been separated into their own class, I'll try to list their differences. Firstly, all Rollers can 1 shot with either a vertical or horizontal flick. Brushes don't have either, just swings. Secondly rollers starting with last game get gradually better ink efficiency while rolling up to 1.2 percent per second while moving at max speed compared to brushes. As brushes are no longer considered rollers, they don't have this trait. The most efficient brush while sliding is the Inkbrush and it still consumes 7.5 percent ink per second while sliding. Whereas rollers start at 6 percent while rolling even at the slowest speed. You see where I'm going with this? Brushes have needed all those buffs just to keep up with their most closely related class, not even counting all the rest of the classes. I tried to back up my argument with data this time and I hope I did a good job explaining myself.

 

[OnePotWonder]

It’s not a matter of what does work, it’s what should work.
Tell me with a straight face that brushes deserve to be good. Octobrush can hit players standing 30 degrees away from where it’s facing. Inkbrush can move through enemy ink at speeds close to swimming. Painbrush’s flicks have a giant two-shot hitbox. All of these brushes have the others’ problems to a lesser extent. These are not good candidates for meta weapons.

I’m not venting or raging, McSquid, I’m stating an opinion, and arguing it. You, on the other hand, are acting personally attacked. Painbrush having half as many flicks wouldn’t kill the weapon. It would certainly be worse, yes, but people still play Recycle Brella despite the fact that it’d be better balanced if it could one-shot. The weapon would live, possibly flourish if buffed in a different area, as I suggested.

Brushes are some of the least fun weapons to fight in the game. Them being good would make the game less fun to play for all non-brush users. Them being worse would make the game more fun. People who enjoy playing brushes have both rollers and splatanas they could play instead, if the class were removed.

It’s a matter of worthiness, McSquid. Brushes aren’t worthy. They are very literally built to be the most annoying class in the game, with Sheldon’s descriptions as proof.
Why, McSquid? Why do you think brushes deserve to be good?

 

[Catloafman]

It’s not a matter of what does work, it’s what should work.
Tell me with a straight face that brushes deserve to be good. Octobrush can hit players standing 30 degrees away from where it’s facing. Inkbrush can move through enemy ink at speeds close to swimming. Painbrush’s flicks have a giant two-shot hitbox. All of these brushes have the others’ problems to a lesser extent. These are not good candidates for meta weapons.

I’m not venting or raging, McSquid, I’m stating an opinion, and arguing it. You, on the other hand, are acting personally attacked. Painbrush having half as many flicks wouldn’t kill the weapon. It would certainly be worse, yes, but people still play Recycle Brella despite the fact that it’d be better balanced if it could one-shot. The weapon would live, possibly flourish if buffed in a different area, as I suggested.

Brushes are some of the least fun weapons to fight in the game. Them being good would make the game less fun to play for all non-brush users. Them being worse would make the game more fun. People who enjoy playing brushes have both rollers and splatanas they could play instead, if the class were removed.

It’s a matter of worthiness, McSquid. Brushes aren’t worthy. They are very literally built to be the most annoying class in the game, with Sheldon’s descriptions as proof.
Why, McSquid? Why do you think brushes deserve to be good?

counter point brushes could be good against short range shooters

 

[OnePotWonder]

counter point brushes could be good against short range shooters

So too could brellas.

 

[Cephalobro]

@McSquid82 and @OnePotWonder

Settle down now, you can have your opinions on the brush class without getting into arguments.