Is there a reason why brushes as a class have always been buffed for multiplayer and never nerfed?

[OnePotWonder]

@McSquid82 and @OnePotWonder

Settle down now, you can have your opinions on the brush class without getting into arguments.

I suppose since you’re a mod it’s in my best interests to listen.

 

[McSquid82]

@McSquid82 and @OnePotWonder

Settle down now, you can have your opinions on the brush class without getting into arguments.

I'm trying, and @OnePotWonder has made his point abundantly clear. I'm just asking him if he has nothing new to contribute other than more negativity, if he can just refrain from making any more posts in this thread. He's derailing it when I just wanted it to be a general discussion of the class.

 

[ThestralZ]

I'm trying, and @OnePotWonder has made his point abundantly clear. I'm just asking him if he has nothing new to contribute other than more negativity, if he can just refrain from making any more posts in this thread. He's derailing it when I just wanted it to be a general discussion of the class.

Then just dm him and stop arguing in public

 

[McSquid82]

Then just dm him and stop arguing in public

I honestly have nothing more to say to him. I've wasted enough time arguing with him. Now can we please just get back on topic?

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I honestly have nothing more to say to him. I've wasted enough time arguing with him. Now can we please just get back on topic?

...talking about the brushes' balance isn't the intended topic of the thread? The title certainly seems to suggest it is.

What topic do you have in mind?

 

[Smash Arena]

Nintendo tends to balance their games based on all playstyles as opposed to basing their buffs on tournament results exclusively. As Nintendo has access to all match data for online battles, I would have to guess that brushes have consistently seen lower performance for the online playerbase, enticing Nintendo to buff the weapon.

It's a similar situation with Smash, some characters are just better for battles with more than 2 players than others, like Ike. Nintendo isn't going to balance the game around 1v1s exclusively. Similarly in Splatoon, Nintendo balances weapons for Turf War in addition to Ranked/Anarchy Battle modes as well as a variety of skill levels. Take the Aerospray RG for instance: it excels in Turf War (and can be helpful in Splat Zones) and is very easy to learn/use for all skill levels. Maybe it isn't the statistically best weapon for Turf War, but it's fun and effective for more casual players, so it serves its purpose.

 

[McSquid82]

...talking about the brushes' balance isn't the intended topic of the thread? The title certainly seems to suggest it is.

What topic do you have in mind?

About how they've always been buffed for multiplayer and never nerfed. I feel in my honest opinion that the developers just thought they were a bit undertuned and have been trying to bring them up to snuff. I want to talk about brushes in general in a rational, civilized matter. Pretty much anything but how much people hate brushes and want them removed from the game. Let's talk about their competitive potential, how they compare to other classes using verifiable facts and in-game and tournament data. Just anything but a salt thread. That's all I ask.

 

[Catloafman]

So too could brellas.

ok thats actually valid

 

[DzNutsKong]

all imma say is that maintaining an argument takes two people and if even one of yall really wanted it done then it wouldve been done in a fraction of the time. nothin wrong with arguing as long as it doesn't get heated buuuuuut


But actually for a more relevant addition to the thread, if Inkbrush were somehow made the best weapon in the game I could see it being fine. I'm no expert on this much but I would imagine if you were to have two Inkbrushes on one team then they'd severely lack painting range and they both wouldn't be able to play to an Inkbrush's strengths. Having two Inkbrushes running around would make it way too easy for the remaining two people to get pushed back. Likewise Octobrush and Painbrush don't play quite as much to the mobility, so you'd either have a case like if a Shooter or if Dynamo were the best weapon or you'd end up with the whole Inkbrush scenario I just brought up.

I think the Brushes are mostly in an alright spot as is though. The Painbrush is the big exception but the other two both being at the cusp of viability even at top level ain't bad at all. Nintendo would probably have to be very cautious about how they'd boost even the Painbrush because of how strong it is into casual players but for what it's worth I think the Brush class as a whole is in a better state than people give it credit for. Still probably the worst class in the game overall but in a game as diverse as this one that in itself isn't even a bad thing.

 

[McSquid82]

all imma say is that maintaining an argument takes two people and if even one of yall really wanted it done then it wouldve been done in a fraction of the time. nothin wrong with arguing as long as it doesn't get heated buuuuuut


But actually for a more relevant addition to the thread, if Inkbrush were somehow made the best weapon in the game I could see it being fine. I'm no expert on this much but I would imagine if you were to have two Inkbrushes on one team then they'd severely lack painting range and they both wouldn't be able to play to an Inkbrush's strengths. Having two Inkbrushes running around would make it way too easy for the remaining two people to get pushed back. Likewise Octobrush and Painbrush don't play quite as much to the mobility, so you'd either have a case like if a Shooter or if Dynamo were the best weapon or you'd end up with the whole Inkbrush scenario I just brought up.

I think the Brushes are mostly in an alright spot as is though. The Painbrush is the big exception but the other two both being at the cusp of viability even at top level ain't bad at all. Nintendo would probably have to be very cautious about how they'd boost even the Painbrush because of how strong it is into casual players but for what it's worth I think the Brush class as a whole is in a better state than people give it credit for. Still probably the worst class in the game overall but in a game as diverse as this one that in itself isn't even a bad thing.

I appreciate that. Yes, I got into an argument, but I was just trying to steer this thread back on topic and admittedly defend brushes at the same time. But that's over and done with and I've moved on. Anyway, I would actually say that the Brush class in general is only a few buffs away from being both viable and competitive at the same time. Earlier in the day, I fought a vanilla Inkbrush and got absolutely rolled. They got 27 splats and absolutely carried their team to a comeback, but I'm not salty about that at all. If anything I was actually impressed. That's the type of Brush player I aspire to be, the type that just never gives up and keeps fighting to the bitter end.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Similarly in Splatoon, Nintendo balances weapons for Turf War in addition to Ranked/Anarchy Battle modes as well as a variety of skill levels. Take the Aerospray RG for instance: it excels in Turf War (and can be helpful in Splat Zones) and is very easy to learn/use for all skill levels. Maybe it isn't the statistically best weapon for Turf War, but it's fun and effective for more casual players, so it serves its purpose.

This.
Many people find brushes annoying to fight. I am not one of them, but the fact that a reasonable person (yes) can make a not completely ridiculous argument for entirely removing them from the game means that they shouldn't be meta. They can be annoying, so they shouldn't be meta because that would be, well, annoying. Brushes serve their purpose, which is to be fun and add weapon variety. They don't have to be competitively viable.

That said, I don't think they need nerfed either. Even with the roll, having to get in super close can still be a problem a lot of the time. Yes, they're better than many people give them credit for, but they're certainly not anywhere near broken. Their current state is fine.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I will admit I got carried away. I’m used to a more argumentative sort of environment when it comes to forums.

To shed a scrap of positivity, I do agree with Dz that Inkbrush is a decent weapon and could be meta without making things worse. I wish I could say the same for the other two because they can both be very fun to play, but their issues always end up overshadowing their design strengths.

Overall, and it was my original point; brushes are fine. They’re not good, but they’re fine. I wouldn’t want to see them buffed without some of their more annoying aspects getting toned back.

 

[McSquid82]

I'm going to add a reason for brushes and this time I'm going to leave stats and competitive completely out of it. In a game where you use garden hoses, fire hydrants, toilets and gas pumps, are giant paintbrushes really that out of place? Part of the entire appeal of this series is the absurdity, hilarity and awesomeness of the stuff being used as weapons. I'd honestly rather fight with a big old water cooler than an assault rifle any day of the week. This is pretty much the only shooter I've ever played and enjoyed.

 

[missingno]

I guess I just don't understand what the point of this thread was. "Why don't low tiers get nerfed?" is a question you should have been able to figure out the answer to on your own.

 

[McSquid82]

I guess I just don't understand what the point of this thread was. "Why don't low tiers get nerfed?" is a question you should have been able to figure out the answer to on your own.

You have a point, and I admit I could have worded the title better. My whole point is that an entire class going through the entire 9 year history of the franchise with all those buffs and zero nerfs just seemed crazy. I'm guessing before the buffs brushes must have been low tier like the Aerospray, hence necessitating them. My question now would be have they received enough buffs to finally be at least mid tier and maybe occasionally be picked in competitive. It's just that before this game we had a very small sample size because brushes were considered rollers and there were only two of them. I'm sure if more of them existed this thread wouldn't exist because I don't think it would be possible to have as many brushes as certain other classes only getting buffs and no nerfs.

 

[lesbianseagull]

that's why I'm glad players like us on this board have zero say in balancing decisions.

100% agree. As irritating as the game can be, I am grateful for how Nintendo approaches the balancing. Great video game series rise & fall. But Splatoon, despite its faults, seems to still be going strong. If they ever start letting the competitive community (who, no offense, tend to lack vision, imagination, & overall good spirit) direct the balancing, I'll know the series is well & truly over. But for now, I'm enjoying the current state of Splatoon while it lasts.

 

[McSquid82]

Like another poster said earlier in this thread, brushes can counter short range shooters. If you look at the top of the meta picks in competitive tournaments right now you'll see a ton of them. Splattershot, Zap, Splash ect, take your pick. For example, if a Painbrush gets the drop on a .52 gal, it can utterly demolish it in short order. I also said earlier that brushes needed buffs in general to their ink consumption. Yes they can be annoying, but they don't have a ton of range.

Even the Painbrush only has about as much range as a short range shooter. Like rollers, brushes need to get close in order to get splats but unlike them they don't have the advantage of either a 1 shot or a vertical flick. As a matter of fact, brushes are the only melee class not to have a 1 shot. They can't charge their swings like Splatanas can and they have severe fall-off damage. On top of that, a big reason for all the buffs to their ink consumption is because brushes, pardon the pun, need to paint. They may be mobile as all get out, but they still need friendly ink in order to shark and set up shop. Every single roller is more ink efficient while rolling than brushes are while sliding. In conclusion, brushes aren't the best class by a long shot, but they needed all these buffs to get to mid tier at best. Any nerfs now would be catastrophic for them.

 

[Lisku]

This is so funny

 

[Cephalobro]

Everyone, try to stay on the topic of the thread and quit with the heated arguments, that means no insults allowed either.

 

[Catloafman]

Its kind of funny to me how the only time I can remember inkbrush being a good meta pick
was when it was a 160p baller in baller meta
Like I can't even imagine a good staple-of-the-meta inkbrush existing with out being a special spammer I hope nintendo makes it good just so we can know what its like cause who knows maybe a well balanced inkbrush might be really good for the game