NA splatfest! Snowman vs Sandcastle

[LupusFreak]

What i'd like to see is how many players were at which points as the 24 hours went on, along with their ranks. That should be interesting. Something like a line graph would be cool.

 

[Award]

@Award The best idea of playing Splatfests is do it when it starts till King/Queen. Otherwise, it's just disconnect central/fresh weapon flavor fest for sure when its down the wire. I do feel you though. This game feels like work than an actual game and can really turn off people even if they do win. Hopefully, Nintendo takes notice for any future IP dealing with shooters (and online in general) next time.

You might be right. The problem is for the US East Coast splatfest starts at midnight - not really viable to play. So generally the EARLIEST we can start is 8-9 hours into Splatfest. And if you have something scheduled that day the only thing you can play is the last 4-8 hours. Meaning the only time anyone on the east coast can play if you have something to do on Saturday, is the very "disconnect central/fresh weapon for lavor time you describe. Meaning splatfest is guaranteed to be terrible. That's a problem! And that assumes you force yourself to stay up playing until midnight to do it!

I had to grind against losing battles for non-stop 4 hours played at full ranked intensity just to get my King status in the VERY last game of the day. If that had been a loss I'd ended Champion and been saliter than the entirity of the salt thread could contain.

Yeah same here I dropped from 1600 to 1500 then ended off with 1576. In the end I was just not prepared for the incoming S/S+ Turf Wars. Also I have a feeling some S ranked squids got carried through squad battles and didn't learn as much when they got to S compared to S ranked squids who understand what it means to be a reliable dependable teammate in Splatoon.

That's the weird thing for me. TW, for me is pretty much ALWAYS A+/S/S+. Not splatfest but normal TW. I'm very very used to S/S+ TW and it's wonderful. What i saw played yesterday was NOT the way it's normally played even at high level. The whole approach to the game felt weird. It was definitely a playstyle and meta Ive never seen. Maybe he big difference really is just no Japanese, and they play different and that's what I normally play....but the difference wasn't merely the ranks of the competitors.

Are we twins? Because what you described is exactly what I went through for about the 8 hours I played. I used to hate when splatfest used to end, but my goodness. I am so happy that it's finally over. And I played during the morning time. Sandcastle was bad at the beginning, but we got better players as the day went on, then I guess it decreased as it was ending.

Interesting that you had the very same experience. And that you were also as big a fan of splatfest as myself until this. And disappointing you played in the morning. Maybe it's the grind that makes it bad. Having to play ranked intensity (and still lose) for 4 hours is just exhausting. I could have liked the challenge without a real rank on the line, had I not *HAD* to play it AND had a timer marking the end of it. But it was just too intense, too compressed, and too unbalanced.

Also given my theories in the other thread, I finally have numeric PROOF the matchmaker matches me consistently on the underdog team. Of the 30-40 matches I played, I counted THREE where I had the numerically advantaged team. All others I had the numerically weaker team, in every single case. The matchmaker DOES consistently put me on the weaker team. Sometimes by a slight margin, sometimes by a wide margin. But in a truly random system I would be on the weaker/stronger team 50/50. Instead I'm put on the weaker team almost exclusively. It's intentional.

I am just going to say what I said on a different forum:

I like the general idea.
I like this splatfest more then a few others (my favorite was transformers) because i am not stressing as much of 1 v 4 carrying. HOWEVER I still got bad teammates that did not know what the heck was goin on, on my alt I went 1400 to 1100 (boosted back to 1400 in final ranking due to turf coverage adjustment)
Then I thought I try sandcastle side, my GOD it was like night and day, teammates using specials well, shouting booyha comeon when there was a 3 or 4 v 0 or 1 advantage, and stuff like this.

We need ranks reset
we need ranks stored on nintedo side so people can't savescum
squads need not to effect rank (just give money)

this way there is no effing carrying, this splatfest really showed me a lot of people are carried/savesum in A/S ranks. (team snowman not enjoyable, sandcastle enjoyable)

Also burst bombs need a a slight nerf (get rid of push effect on it, is the extreme push caused by lag more so then game manachic?)
Dynamo rollers in some cases do side hit 1 hit splat (depends on slight tilt ) I am fairly sure I was able pull it of in the test range where I 1 hit splat the things a bit on the side hitting it with the roller itself where the other rollers do not do this.

I agree with a lot of what you said, except I WISH I had your experience on Sandcastle....instead of the miserable, infuriating waste of time I got.

I agree 100% about the rank reset necessity, and I've called for it so many times. I agree 100% about the server side ranks and scumming.

While I do agree somewhat about not being able to gain ranks through squads (I was horrified when I first learned that was possible) I STILL don't understand what everyone is so on about with being carried to ranks. I still have not seen, for myself any example of being able to be carried. Carrying a C to A...maybe. Carrying an A to S? Not a chance in any squad I've ever seen. Not to mention, I thought Squads only carry you to A+ 99 meaning you have to win in real A+ to get to S anyway? Personally, as someone who got to A+ and S through solo, and is currently having a hard time getting BACK to S from A+ due to the inevitable losing streaks....I still find squads more likely to tank me back to A- more than bring me to A+99. Though we've already established the matchmaker DOES have a vendetta against e so maybe some people DO get carried and its only me that doesn't. Otherwise I still insist "carrying" is a myth. SCUMMING on the other hand I believe is all too real.

But Sandcastle was in no way enjoyable the time of day I was playing, so I imagine both teams had their share of scummed players...they just weren't playing at the same time.

No argument on burst nerfing, though I do depend on them when I play vanilla eliter in Mackerel/Hammerhead rotations, I only use them for the direct/AoE hit attacks and not much else. More than 3 needed = useless/bad play.

I'll have to play with dynamo. It's one of my zones mains, and they were devastating yesterday...but I did not get it to work out well.

I didn't notice much different with weapon choices this Splatfest, I saw most of what I usually see. Lots of Aerosprays, Jrs, quite a few N-ZAPs, some Chargers, the still-ubiquitous Krak-Ons.

I started at 1400 (A rank) and made it to 1507 by the end. Played it just like I do regular Turf War. Had the usual amount of disconnects.

It all seemed pretty regular to me, really. I even used a weapon I almost never use for almost the whole thing, the vanilla Splattershot.

Weird....I didn't see most of the normal weapons....I did see SOME of all of the above, but not many...not more than I'd see in ranked. Even gold aerosprays were about as common as in zones in the As. But carbons, eliters, splatterscopes, lunas, dynamos, splash-o-matics, were far and wide the most common mains I was seeing. I've NEVER seen that matchup be so heavy in TW. It was like TC meets Zones.

Also odd....youre A, I'm presently A+...and we both had the same 1400 start value?? And someone above had a 1200 in C-?? What is with these numbers? Yet Oxenfree (S+) had a 1700? And some S's had 1600. Why would an A and A+ have the same 1400 while an S gets 1600? Ugh...their math is still broken. Or they still "modify" numbers based on metrics we can not see.

I'm jealous that your number went UP instead of down, and that you got normal TW out of it instead of the weird free for all deathmatch (it wasn't even team deathmatch....just FFA) It was team only in that there's no PvP on the same team.

It's still the best summary I can give: I had to resort to TTK/Octoshot. I've never even resorted to that in S zones.

 

[chubbypickle]

i resorted to splattershot jr after a hour of matches i just kept running out of ink on my zap and getting caught so basically i gotta practice tw the week before the next splatfest and have gear to suit my zap with turf war...........

 

[モモコ]

You might be right. The problem is for the US East Coast splatfest starts at midnight - not really viable to play. So generally the EARLIEST we can start is 8-9 hours into Splatfest. And if you have something scheduled that day the only thing you can play is the last 4-8 hours. Meaning the only time anyone on the east coast can play if you have something to do on Saturday, is the very "disconnect central/fresh weapon for lavor time you describe. Meaning splatfest is guaranteed to be terrible. That's a problem! And that assumes you force yourself to stay up playing until midnight to do it!

I had to grind against losing battles for non-stop 4 hours played at full ranked intensity just to get my King status in the VERY last game of the day. If that had been a loss I'd ended Champion and been saliter than the entirity of the salt thread could contain.



That's the weird thing for me. TW, for me is pretty much ALWAYS A+/S/S+. Not splatfest but normal TW. I'm very very used to S/S+ TW and it's wonderful. What i saw played yesterday was NOT the way it's normally played even at high level. The whole approach to the game felt weird. It was definitely a playstyle and meta Ive never seen. Maybe he big difference really is just no Japanese, and they play different and that's what I normally play....but the difference wasn't merely the ranks of the competitors.



Interesting that you had the very same experience. And that you were also as big a fan of splatfest as myself until this. And disappointing you played in the morning. Maybe it's the grind that makes it bad. Having to play ranked intensity (and still lose) for 4 hours is just exhausting. I could have liked the challenge without a real rank on the line, had I not *HAD* to play it AND had a timer marking the end of it. But it was just too intense, too compressed, and too unbalanced.

Also given my theories in the other thread, I finally have numeric PROOF the matchmaker matches me consistently on the underdog team. Of the 30-40 matches I played, I counted THREE where I had the numerically advantaged team. All others I had the numerically weaker team, in every single case. The matchmaker DOES consistently put me on the weaker team. Sometimes by a slight margin, sometimes by a wide margin. But in a truly random system I would be on the weaker/stronger team 50/50. Instead I'm put on the weaker team almost exclusively. It's intentional.



I agree with a lot of what you said, except I WISH I had your experience on Sandcastle....instead of the miserable, infuriating waste of time I got.

I agree 100% about the rank reset necessity, and I've called for it so many times. I agree 100% about the server side ranks and scumming.

While I do agree somewhat about not being able to gain ranks through squads (I was horrified when I first learned that was possible) I STILL don't understand what everyone is so on about with being carried to ranks. I still have not seen, for myself any example of being able to be carried. Carrying a C to A...maybe. Carrying an A to S? Not a chance in any squad I've ever seen. Not to mention, I thought Squads only carry you to A+ 99 meaning you have to win in real A+ to get to S anyway? Personally, as someone who got to A+ and S through solo, and is currently having a hard time getting BACK to S from A+ due to the inevitable losing streaks....I still find squads more likely to tank me back to A- more than bring me to A+99. Though we've already established the matchmaker DOES have a vendetta against e so maybe some people DO get carried and its only me that doesn't. Otherwise I still insist "carrying" is a myth. SCUMMING on the other hand I believe is all too real.

But Sandcastle was in no way enjoyable the time of day I was playing, so I imagine both teams had their share of scummed players...they just weren't playing at the same time.

No argument on burst nerfing, though I do depend on them when I play vanilla eliter in Mackerel/Hammerhead rotations, I only use them for the direct/AoE hit attacks and not much else. More than 3 needed = useless/bad play.

I'll have to play with dynamo. It's one of my zones mains, and they were devastating yesterday...but I did not get it to work out well.



Weird....I didn't see most of the normal weapons....I did see SOME of all of the above, but not many...not more than I'd see in ranked. Even gold aerosprays were about as common as in zones in the As. But carbons, eliters, splatterscopes, lunas, dynamos, splash-o-matics, were far and wide the most common mains I was seeing. I've NEVER seen that matchup be so heavy in TW. It was like TC meets Zones.

Also odd....youre A, I'm presently A+...and we both had the same 1400 start value?? And someone above had a 1200 in C-?? What is with these numbers? Yet Oxenfree (S+) had a 1700? And some S's had 1600. Why would an A and A+ have the same 1400 while an S gets 1600? Ugh...their math is still broken. Or they still "modify" numbers based on metrics we can not see.

I'm jealous that your number went UP instead of down, and that you got normal TW out of it instead of the weird free for all deathmatch (it wasn't even team deathmatch....just FFA) It was team only in that there's no PvP on the same team.

It's still the best summary I can give: I had to resort to TTK/Octoshot. I've never even resorted to that in S zones.

zack scott got carried to s.... His play style belongs in B ranks, B+/A- at best.
People need 3-4 on me pretty frequently due to bomb sniffer and defense up, but the thing is, sometimes even then it is like being hit with 1 and splat because of the push, sometimes it does not effect me at all, other times the push is gamebreaking where I can do anything.

also no squads can get the rank up in A+ so c- 0 to S 30. (wait I think? maybe that is why zack had to plubic after A+ something? I had no idea the cap was A+99, always thought it let you get to S 30.

All A rank get 1400, my S+ account got 1600.
B is typically 1200 and c is 1000 though they did say some things may change it a bit.

 

[Award]

zack scott got carried to s.... His play style belongs in B ranks, B+/A- at best.
People need 3-4 on me pretty frequently due to bomb sniffer and defense up, but the thing is, sometimes even then it is like being hit with 1 and splat because of the push, sometimes it does not effect me at all, other times the push is gamebreaking where I can do anything.

also no squads can get the rank up in A+ so c- 0 to S 30. (wait I think? maybe that is why zack had to plubic after A+ something? I had no idea the cap was A+99, always thought it let you get to S 30.

All A rank get 1400, my S+ account got 1600.
B is typically 1200 and c is 1000 though they did say some things may change it a bit.

The only way I can picture getting carried to S (or A+99) via squads is if you have 3 S+'s that are skilled at 3v4 helping you. Personally (and again, I know the matchmaker seems to deliberately put me at a disadvantage and the splatfest stats proved precisely what I suspected happens in ranked was numerically true in TW yesterday) - BUT personally no matter if I squad with an S, an A, or a B+, there's no "carrying" going on in twins, and in the few quads I've done it was with mixed ranks against nightmarishly brutal full clan ensembles. (Or the duo of your {C-} friends ;) ) Onene person I often squad with that started as a B- when we began (while i was "post-S" A-) I figured "oh I'm carrying him" - then when I was winning more than when squadding with some S's, I figured "oh, he's carrying me because we're getting easier lobbies!" Now were the same rank (or within one rank apart give or take) in A/A+ - and we still win a good deal together....thus...nobody was getting carried, we just work well as a team. Heck if I could get carried I'd have been back at S for the past month :P As is my several "near misses" where I was 1 or 2 wins away from getting S again have all been in solo (with massive losing streaks between. )

If there's carrying going on I can see it maybe with S+ trios from clans doing 3v4 for fun to bring their friends up. Ive seen SOME duo squads where one of our teammates sat around spawn doing nothing. So I'm guessing they were there to be carried. Though it didn't quite work out. Their friend might be good at 3v4. I'm not. We lost :P Quads is something I do when I really don't care about losing ranks (which is usually unless I'm a few wins from S again.) I'm not certain I've ever WON a game in quads with mixed ranks :P

I'm pretty sure you can only do A+99 in squads. So anyone "carried" to S still has to either do well enough solo or get lucky to get into S. Maybe I'm wrong - for now I'm sick of the matchmaker on my main account so I'm playing squads-only there. I'll let you know if it caps me at A+99 or S30 if my getting "carried" ever allows that to happen :P I'm doing my solo work on my alt. So far the matchmaker is behaving a lot better on that account, flying through the B's at present. We'll see. I think it's at B+56 or so at lvl16.

The 1400 would make sense. I do fear I was playing during "alt hour" - considering I was intending to be ONE of those fake "B" alts playing during that time had it not taken 4 hours to finish the main. Most of the "1200-1400" players I played likely would have been alts in the last 4 hours.

 

[モモコ]

@Award
I do not know the term for this (super S+ players?) but there are some people at S+ that carry other S+ players, so it is not shocking to me the least, plus aas said *points to zackscott* all he does is ink turf and set up beakons for yoshi.

I have done twins here and there where I carried while our pair twin team, was carrying their person. So basically 2 v4, won in OT.

You just gotta see how the match is playing out, hard to explain but you can see or feel the weak and strong players at times.

S+ players can also make alts and carry friends that way too. (being S+ skill with c- letter allows huge gains, little losses while getting lower skill matchmaking)

 

[Award]

@Award
I do not know the term for this (super S+ players?) but there are some people at S+ that carry other S+ players, so it is not shocking to me the least, plus aas said *points to zackscott* all he does is ink turf and set up beakons for yoshi.

I have done twins here and there where I carried while our pair twin team, was carrying their person. So basically 2 v4, won in OT.

You just gotta see how the match is playing out, hard to explain but you can see or feel the weak and strong players at times.

S+ players can also make alts and carry friends that way too. (being S+ skill with c- letter allows huge gains, little losses while getting lower skill matchmaking)

Yes, those are the only ways I can see "carrying" actually working. Either very high-tier S+ players that are good enough to 3v4 in a quad, or S+ players playing on an alt to carry people. From what I have seen twinning and quadding in my real rank playing with other people playing their real rank, I can see no such thing as carrying as possible. I suppose people doing it as you describe it's possible. That's probably what is happening when we lose and see horrible teammates etc. But I'm so used to horrible teammates in ranked I just see it as more of the same :)

I'm usually not the observant one that sees if teammates are slacking off unless I'm playing eliter or hydra - or inkbrush where I'm back at spawn often and get to see. Most of my other weapons are close range that require me to pay attention to what's immediately in front of me and overall objective status, and just "hope" everyone else is playing their best without being able to babysit them.

Though what you said about new alts just for carrying highlights MY personal pet peive I hate as much as you hate the carried players - all the alts. I'm being hypocrite as I now have an alt myself...I'm adding to the problem, but I resisted doing so long enough and finally caved to it as a result of all the OTHER alts that were messing up my real games. (And the (carried?) bad players.) I'm at least trying to get my alt back up to level fast.

I never imagined people jumping through such hoops just to carry people. That probably explains why even squads are messed up!
Ugh! I still think the REALLY bad ones are scummers though. Even the carried have to pick up tips somewhere...I mean whats the point of getting carried to A+ if you can't actually PLAY A+ matches? Where as the scummers don't have to worry because they don't actually LOSE ever.


P.S. Im not actually sure who zackscott is other than hearing in this thread he's some youtuber :) Though there's a million Yoshi's playing, I played a match yesterday where 3/4 of the team was named Yoshi.... It was kind of weird... maybe that was one of them :P

 

[モモコ]

I never imagined people jumping through such hoops just to carry people. That probably explains why even squads are messed up!
Ugh! I still think the REALLY bad ones are scummers though. Even the carried have to pick up tips somewhere...I mean whats the point of getting carried to A+ if you can't actually PLAY A+ matches? Where as the scummers don't have to worry because they don't actually LOSE ever.

I saw it during Japanese splatfest too, good example I had this match, skatepark zones where I got a triple splat then swam up to the tower to get a look and found the 4th right away. While doing this there was a teammate already up there shooting at??? (I got no clue?) it was pissing me off at the time even as I was trying to aim down to splat the 4th that lead to me jumping of the tower, leading to that teammate getting splatted, I think? they vanished from my awareness. (or i simply do not remember now, a lot of things happen where I forget shortly after because it is no longer important) While in this moment of jumping down, one of the people I splatted was on the way back leaving me 1 v 2 ( the 4th and the respawn) and I end up getting splatted.

I really do not get what people are doing to the point I splat 3-4 people in a short amount of time (I seen this in a S rank match too during a different splat fest only the 3 was all same time) where the team does not know enough to advance, (or even go after the objective) and yet when this happened on my sandcastle team they where shouting boohya and come on (all 4 of us did this actually) to make sure we all knew what just happened and pushed to near spawn from it.

I understand no one is perfect but if people are actin like that, they got to A+/S when they should not be there, so there is flaw of system and I think it is from squads/scavescum issues

 

[blu]

So we lost. Sure felt like it. Looks like I not only do I have to have my splatfest shirt maxed and tweak before the next one, but I have to have my skills sharpened as well if I am to have a chance of staying above the 1200 threshold. I tilted during splatfest during my first go which was a big mistake. Once I got below that number, there was no going back. I came close only to get curb-stomped by teams that had 1000 pts more splatpower and 6 or so wins under their belt.

The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over. I hope some tweaks are made where disconnects are less punishing on splatpower, and have more clear distinction among ranks to avoid the hopeless scenarios that lead to carrying vs teams that are better off. This splatfest is gonna give me nightmares for weeks :(

 

[Flareth]

@blu
Pardon me, what is this "tilt"? A bout of bad luck or something?

I'd be in favor of giving a team with a disconnect the same Quick Respawn benefits that tri-squads in a 3v4 Squad Battle get. Because honestly, every match that turns into a 3v4 through disconnects—and it's not one of those things where it only happens to me, either—it turns into a spawncamping nightmare that rarely if ever ends.

As for what to do with ranks... I'd be in favor of what @モモコ suggested, resetting everyone's rank and removing the ability to gain/lose rank points in Squad Battles entirely.

 

[モモコ]

@blu
Pardon me, what is this "tilt"? A bout of bad luck or something?

I'd be in favor of giving a team with a disconnect the same Quick Respawn benefits that tri-squads in a 3v4 Squad Battle get. Because honestly, every match that turns into a 3v4 through disconnects—and it's not one of those things where it only happens to me, either—it turns into a spawncamping nightmare that rarely if ever ends.

As for what to do with ranks... I'd be in favor of what @モモコ suggested, resetting everyone's rank and removing the ability to gain/lose rank points in Squad Battles entirely.

has to be more then that, I was going to guess that too till i read "The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over" I can't find any kind of meaning to fit this unless it is saying wipe in the last 15-10 seconds left to go then yeah you prob lose. That is the only time I seen for sure losses since around 5 seconds to go it will not get you a win unless tw scores are close (unless rank, then you can keep pushing and win in ot)
As for agreeing with me I made a poll in competitive talk to see how many do. Maybe a strong enough demand to Nintendo make the changes happen (remember biggest reason for me want rank reset is to store rank numbers on Nintendo side, do not do that and it is pretty worthless)

 

[LupusFreak]

has to be more then that, I was going to guess that too till i read "The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over" I can't find any kind of meaning to fit this unless it is saying wipe in the last 15-10 seconds left to go then yeah you prob lose. That is the only time I seen for sure losses since around 5 seconds to go it will not get you a win unless tw scores are close (unless rank, then you can keep pushing and win in ot)

Maybe if you shake your gamepad hard enough, Splatoon actually tilts and you have to sit there watching your inkling do nothing for the rest of the match.

 

[Award]

has to be more then that, I was going to guess that too till i read "The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over" I can't find any kind of meaning to fit this unless it is saying wipe in the last 15-10 seconds left to go then yeah you prob lose. That is the only time I seen for sure losses since around 5 seconds to go it will not get you a win unless tw scores are close (unless rank, then you can keep pushing and win in ot)
As for agreeing with me I made a poll in competitive talk to see how many do. Maybe a strong enough demand to Nintendo make the changes happen (remember biggest reason for me want rank reset is to store rank numbers on Nintendo side, do not do that and it is pretty worthless)

Tilt is a term that comes from traditional (board/card) competitive ranked ladder games. It means the emotional state that once you start losing you become angry and unfocused and as a result the first few losses, fair or unfair, causes you to not play your best and therefore continue losing.

In ranked the solution people recommend is "stop playing after a few losses to avoid tilt" (which is a seperate topic but I disagree with because of the "intentional mismatches" we've discussed that occur in this game, tilt is not always the cause of long losing streaks as it would be in say, Poker), But in splatfest you HAVE to keep playing "on tilt" to get your snails.

You're advocating my own suggestions of resetting the ranks, yay! - BUT my suggestion has always been accompanied by a need to have a progressive ladder rather than a floating ladder, and to have PERIODIC resets every season or so. A one time rank reset won't help much even with server side storage. Most other ranked games have periodic resets to keep the player pools clean for periodic new metas.

I saw it during Japanese splatfest too, good example I had this match, skatepark zones where I got a triple splat then swam up to the tower to get a look and found the 4th right away. While doing this there was a teammate already up there shooting at??? (I got no clue?) it was pissing me off at the time even as I was trying to aim down to splat the 4th that lead to me jumping of the tower, leading to that teammate getting splatted, I think? they vanished from my awareness. (or i simply do not remember now, a lot of things happen where I forget shortly after because it is no longer important) While in this moment of jumping down, one of the people I splatted was on the way back leaving me 1 v 2 ( the 4th and the respawn) and I end up getting splatted.

I really do not get what people are doing to the point I splat 3-4 people in a short amount of time (I seen this in a S rank match too during a different splat fest only the 3 was all same time) where the team does not know enough to advance, (or even go after the objective) and yet when this happened on my sandcastle team they where shouting boohya and come on (all 4 of us did this actually) to make sure we all knew what just happened and pushed to near spawn from it.

I understand no one is perfect but if people are actin like that, they got to A+/S when they should not be there, so there is flaw of system and I think it is from squads/scavescum issues

Your experiences seem similar enough to mine with regard to terrible teammates that were obviously scummed/carried (did I tell you about the A rank match I played where the RM carrier ran the RM to our own goal? Oh yes! Even in the A's!) Players that just don't know to expect the strategies in upper ranks. Little details you notice when you know a weapon/mode/map, like playing Mahi ranked, any mode when I see a charger on my team ignore the ramp on the right ,even though 50% of the time someone will flank right away. It seems out of place like "don't you know the danger?" I'm still more likely to pin that on scumming than carrying though. I played more rounds today with my alt account with someone in a much lower rank than my real one. The first few rounds were easy. Then S+'s started appearing. The game seemed to notice I was an alt and matched accordingly. I also saw quite a few other obvious alts (players in the C's and B's who could easily take me on our outmatch me....) One match I got lucky and had an "A" eliter who was lvl 19 wearing 1-slot gear and had triple any k/d in the lobby including mine. Sure...that's an A :)

Despite being an alt myself, there's no point resolving scumming/carrying if it can't address alts too. That's the same problem in the other direction. The only real way to do that is to reset often enough so that there's no time/incentive to create alts. I was playing an A+ match today where the RM carrier never advanced. He'd grab the RM before I could, but would then fall back and retreat and fight with it....actually taking it backward! And one time I cleared the path up to the goal in Triggerfish, and he had a clear shot from the catwalk to the goal only 1, then 2 enemies left but I was up there watching for them....and he's nowhere to be found....he's still behind. Then he drops to the bottom! What's he doing? (Thankfully I was able to grab it and take it to the goal not long after!)

The other issue for ranked is they need to address the NEED to be your rank in all modes. You could have someone genuinely great at Zones in S....but knows nothing of RM. So if they play RM they play like a C+. They look "scummed/carried" but in reality they just don't know the mode.

How tis all ties back to this new splatfest system.....Im not even sure. All I saw was combat training. Nobody even played TW. It was just free for all combat, followed by a painting push by the most combat savvy team that scored a team wipe at the end.

 

[モモコ]

Tilt is a term that comes from traditional (board/card) competitive ranked ladder games. It means the emotional state that once you start losing you become angry and unfocused and as a result the first few losses, fair or unfair, causes you to not play your best and therefore continue losing.

In ranked the solution people recommend is "stop playing after a few losses to avoid tilt" (which is a seperate topic but I disagree with because of the "intentional mismatches" we've discussed that occur in this game, tilt is not always the cause of long losing streaks as it would be in say, Poker), But in splatfest you HAVE to keep playing "on tilt" to get your snails.

You're advocating my own suggestions of resetting the ranks, yay! - BUT my suggestion has always been accompanied by a need to have a progressive ladder rather than a floating ladder, and to have PERIODIC resets every season or so. A one time rank reset won't help much even with server side storage. Most other ranked games have periodic resets to keep the player pools clean for periodic new metas.



Your experiences seem similar enough to mine with regard to terrible teammates that were obviously scummed/carried (did I tell you about the A rank match I played where the RM carrier ran the RM to our own goal? Oh yes! Even in the A's!) Players that just don't know to expect the strategies in upper ranks. Little details you notice when you know a weapon/mode/map, like playing Mahi ranked, any mode when I see a charger on my team ignore the ramp on the right ,even though 50% of the time someone will flank right away. It seems out of place like "don't you know the danger?" I'm still more likely to pin that on scumming than carrying though. I played more rounds today with my alt account with someone in a much lower rank than my real one. The first few rounds were easy. Then S+'s started appearing. The game seemed to notice I was an alt and matched accordingly. I also saw quite a few other obvious alts (players in the C's and B's who could easily take me on our outmatch me....) One match I got lucky and had an "A" eliter who was lvl 19 wearing 1-slot gear and had triple any k/d in the lobby including mine. Sure...that's an A :)

Despite being an alt myself, there's no point resolving scumming/carrying if it can't address alts too. That's the same problem in the other direction. The only real way to do that is to reset often enough so that there's no time/incentive to create alts. I was playing an A+ match today where the RM carrier never advanced. He'd grab the RM before I could, but would then fall back and retreat and fight with it....actually taking it backward! And one time I cleared the path up to the goal in Triggerfish, and he had a clear shot from the catwalk to the goal only 1, then 2 enemies left but I was up there watching for them....and he's nowhere to be found....he's still behind. Then he drops to the bottom! What's he doing? (Thankfully I was able to grab it and take it to the goal not long after!)

The other issue for ranked is they need to address the NEED to be your rank in all modes. You could have someone genuinely great at Zones in S....but knows nothing of RM. So if they play RM they play like a C+. They look "scummed/carried" but in reality they just don't know the mode.

How tis all ties back to this new splatfest system.....Im not even sure. All I saw was combat training. Nobody even played TW. It was just free for all combat, followed by a painting push by the most combat savvy team that scored a team wipe at the end.

I think I gave an idea about resetting earlier too and making seasons, but I do not know enough about this stuff to give a good range, I said 2-4 months.

For the tilt thing I do not think I am effected by this, like when I show my videos, it is hard to explain how mad I really am with what is going on but it appears not to effect my play? What effects me is more just tried. Like after a while I get tried of thinking about so much as I play and mirco lag issues that I usually can't play for long. It is the same reason why I can't fully carry people. So when people ask me to play for advice/carry, I try for a bit then I offer advice how to improve because I just get tired after a while.

Esp for splatfest like.. I think it was plane? and I was SOoooooooooooooooo tried from doing that I actually stopped playing completely till the next one, ninja was it? then it happened again. I actually pretty much stopped playing till C- was like hey we need a spot and I was like cool this will be neat, advance teamwork... did not quite go that way...

Here you be judge how much (if any) this tilt idea effects me:

This match i was so mad when they got to the about 50 mark I was about to rage quit the match (pull ethernet cord) because it seems my team was doing nothing like, they would get splatted by the same person that splatted me, even allow a triple (start of match) when it shouldn't happen. I was even ping tapping the jr to see the movements better when i was on respawning because it just did not seem it was working... (though after pinging them I really did not see anything wrong so i did not bother them. Maybe just had bad start, lol)

Reason I wanted to know is because I do not think "The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over." will be true for everyone.

 

[Award]

I think I gave an idea about resetting earlier too and making seasons, but I do not know enough about this stuff to give a good range, I said 2-4 months.

Since i posted in your "reset" thread about this, that's probably a better thread for discussing resets and ladder redesigns, so we'll continue that part there :)

For the tilt thing I do not think I am effected by this, like when I show my videos, it is hard to explain how mad I really am with what is going on but it appears not to effect my play? What effects me is more just tried. Like after a while I get tried of thinking about so much as I play and mirco lag issues that I usually can't play for long. It is the same reason why I can't fully carry people. So when people ask me to play for advice/carry, I try for a bit then I offer advice how to improve because I just get tired after a while.

I agree, Proponents of considering tilt tend to believe it affects everyone the same way because of human nature, etc. To a degree they're right, however Splatoon doesn't neatly fit into that theory because losses and the effect of losses are caused both by teams and the matchmaker, not just by one player doing worse. Also different people react differently. Some people have said they know they get too angry and it affects their play. Some would say everyone's play is affected by bad losses etc. However, I agree with you and believe it works the same for me. I don't really tilt either. Even if I'm furious at one match, that doesn't carry with me into the the next match at all. What DOES carry with me is if I know *I* played poorly. Like if I had eliter and didn't hit anything well, I'll doubt myself the next match. If that match starts well and I get a splat right away, then it kind of erases the previous difficulty. If I'm still missing, that will continue to affect my play. But losing when I know I'm not playing poorly doesn't cause me to tilt either. I know I was consistent so I know the problem is elsewhere.

Esp for splatfest like.. I think it was plane? and I was SOoooooooooooooooo tried from doing that I actually stopped playing completely till the next one, ninja was it? then it happened again. I actually pretty much stopped playing till C- was like hey we need a spot and I was like cool this will be neat, advance teamwork... did not quite go that way...

The only time I get tired out from it is when I play really frantic weapons (brushes, sploosh, carbon.) Or when play is just not fun (like this splatfest. )

Yeah...my trouble with clans and such is that it's so scheduled and rigid, the game starts to invade life rather than the other way around. They tend to become rigid and demanding in how time is spent and levels of performance and such that it ceases to become recreational and becomes a job. :) Then again, I can't deny those guys are good....so I suppose it pays off. But I prefer my games not become mandatory. ;)

This match i was so mad when they got to the about 50 mark I was about to rage quit the match (pull ethernet cord) because it seems my team was doing nothing like, they would get splatted by the same person that splatted me, even allow a triple (start of match) when it shouldn't happen. I was even ping tapping the jr to see the movements better when i was on respawning because it just did not seem it was working... (though after pinging them I really did not see anything wrong so i did not bother them. Maybe just had bad start, lol)

Reason I wanted to know is because I do not think "The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over." will be true for everyone.

I've seen so many matches like that. If I'm playing brushes or sploosh, I'm often going to be the first one killed. I get so frustrated in RM since, to help pop the shield I have to be almost touching it. When my team STARTS trying to pop it, then just wanders off and it starts going the other way fast, and there I am still swiping at it and "pop" the shield takes me out in the first 7 seconds. Inevitably my team survived the shield, and then gets killed immediately after. Happened in Splatfest too. I used Sploosh for a while, I'd get taken out with the deathmatch mob, and then I'd see 2-3 more yellow X's behind me. Seriously how could NOBODY manage to survive the first wave?

I think most proponents of "tilt theory' would say that you wouldn't be able to SEE tilt in a video, it would just be an overall trend of worse or less observant playing. Which is probably true for most who are "on tilt". At the same time, I think "tilt" would tend to produce pronounced errors and making reckless mistakes (when I play close weapons, reckless is part of the strategy, taking big risks that might fail big. But if I start making obvious bad jumps over and over on Mahi, I know it's probably time to put it down...even as a player that generally doesn't tilt :) ) I didn't see anything here showing obvious recklessness or anything. Just a REALLY annoying quick-respawn dynamo (seriously, who uses stacked QR on dynamo?? A brush or sploosh built for trades is one thing. But a dynamo?? ) And I honestly rarely see your teammates in that video. Considering it's TC.... :p Yep, sounds like half the rounds in the A's that I've seen!

Also, like with roller, it's fun to watch you play Custom Range Blaster. It's one of my favs that I rarely pull out except when NOTHING else works. I pulled it out yesterday for warehouse zones in some nightmare squads (yay, only lost 25 points yesterday!) on my main account, and it we finally WON a match :D Nice to see you finishing with similar k/d's. I'll have to watch it later where it has a less jittery framerate than this machine! :)

 

[モモコ]

I think most proponents of "tilt theory' would say that you wouldn't be able to SEE tilt in a video, it would just be an overall trend of worse or less observant playing. Which is probably true for most who are "on tilt". At the same time, I think "tilt" would tend to produce pronounced errors and making reckless mistakes (when I play close weapons, reckless is part of the strategy, taking big risks that might fail big. But if I start making obvious bad jumps over and over on Mahi, I know it's probably time to put it down...even as a player that generally doesn't tilt :) ) I didn't see anything here showing obvious recklessness or anything. Just a REALLY annoying quick-respawn dynamo (seriously, who uses stacked QR on dynamo?? A brush or sploosh built for trades is one thing. But a dynamo?? ) And I honestly rarely see your teammates in that video. Considering it's TC.... :p Yep, sounds like half the rounds in the A's that I've seen!

Also, like with roller, it's fun to watch you play Custom Range Blaster. It's one of my favs that I rarely pull out except when NOTHING else works. I pulled it out yesterday for warehouse zones in some nightmare squads (yay, only lost 25 points yesterday!) on my main account, and it we finally WON a match :D Nice to see you finishing with similar k/d's. I'll have to watch it later where it has a less jittery framerate than this machine! :)

For the Dynamo it is why we would not win that, but I was not talking about that match. I was really really raging on the map I time stamp. The last match, I was really rally raging (I do not show it though, like rl emotion or breaking wii u pad) and it is something I never do is quit mid-match but the thing was I was already getting tried from playing (6 hours maybe? when this took place?) and a bit irritated that I was not getting the 3rd defense up. But point is, I was mad enough on that last match I timestamp (t=1662) I REALLY felt like pulling ether out and felt sure loss when they had it at 50. So my point is, I really do not think "The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over." applies to everyone and I show this match to see if I am really not effected by it. When you say "I didn't see anything here showing obvious recklessness or anything" that may just prove my point, not everyone, like me, is effected by this tilt thing.

 

[Award]

For the Dynamo it is why we would not win that, but I was not talking about that match. I was really really raging on the map I time stamp. The last match, I was really rally raging (I do not show it though, like rl emotion or breaking wii u pad) and it is something I never do is quit mid-match but the thing was I was already getting tried from playing (6 hours maybe? when this took place?) and a bit irritated that I was not getting the 3rd defense up. But point is, I was mad enough on that last match I timestamp (t=1662) I REALLY felt like pulling ether out and felt sure loss when they had it at 50. So my point is, I really do not think "The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over." applies to everyone and I show this match to see if I am really not effected by it. When you say "I didn't see anything here showing obvious recklessness or anything" that may just prove my point, not everyone, like me, is effected by this tilt thing.

Yes, I watch that video, and I still see 1v4. Where were your teammates? I periodically see them BELOW the tower, and that's about all I see of them :P
I can certainly understand the frustration! I don't know if it's encouraging or depressing watching a match played by someone like you who (with another weapon) is S+, and if you told me the video I just watch was actually a recording of me playing, I'd believe it. The way your match went, getting surrounded at all times because your team was not helping....that could easily be most of the matches I play in the A's as well. it feels so familiar. I definitely don't see any obvious recklessness that I'd associate with tilt. It was pretty much you vs. the tower the whole time. I saw a few mistakes that I might have easily made (such as running someone down with a range blaster and failing :D) but I think that comes less from genuine tilt and more from frustration in the specific match you're playing seems like no matter what you do you're going to lose because you can't be everywhere. At some point you just start doing risky/bad things because...well..why not? Tilt would be if it carried over into subsequent matches though :)

I think for the kind of person who does experience tilt, it probably is over once tilt starts. And there are many people for which that happens. I don't believe it's as universal as some people think of it though. Some people can stay focused regardless of how frustrated they may be. Some people even focus better when frustrated.

 

[モモコ]

Yes, I watch that video, and I still see 1v4. Where were your teammates? I periodically see them BELOW the tower, and that's about all I see of them :p
I can certainly understand the frustration! I don't know if it's encouraging or depressing watching a match played by someone like you who (with another weapon) is S+, and if you told me the video I just watch was actually a recording of me playing, I'd believe it. The way your match went, getting surrounded at all times because your team was not helping....that could easily be most of the matches I play in the A's as well. it feels so familiar. I definitely don't see any obvious recklessness that I'd associate with tilt. It was pretty much you vs. the tower the whole time. I saw a few mistakes that I might have easily made (such as running someone down with a range blaster and failing :D) but I think that comes less from genuine tilt and more from frustration in the specific match you're playing seems like no matter what you do you're going to lose because you can't be everywhere. At some point you just start doing risky/bad things because...well..why not? Tilt would be if it carried over into subsequent matches though :)

I think for the kind of person who does experience tilt, it probably is over once tilt starts. And there are many people for which that happens. I don't believe it's as universal as some people think of it though. Some people can stay focused regardless of how frustrated they may be. Some people even focus better when frustrated.

Well i am not sure of other matches in that vid, i have to make sure and check, but once I was splatted was because I hit the red weapon person twice, then was trying to back off to hit roller, then when I saw the second shot not splat them, I got confused for a second of who to aim for. The 3rd shot did not have enough movement to go forward since I was backing off to try get the roller, then when it was clearly seen they backed up enough where my weapon could not turched them at all, i did turn to try hit the roller but not fast enough so looked like i shot at nothing and got splatted by the roller. Lag or not I still do not understand how some people do not get splatted. That second shot to the red weapon was only hairs away from a direct hit (very slightly out of range of direct hit and I was a bit to the left?) but ya that messed me up bad in that moment. time 29:40.

Anyways I am glad I got a supporting view, so not always "The message is clear: if you tilt, then its over." is true....

 

[birdiebee]

edit: double post

 

[birdiebee]

The NA splatfest experience seems so much different from the JP one. Is it because of server locations? I dont know how this stuff works but I've only had maybe 4 disconnects in the past 6 months. I almost never see lag. And as for wait times, there were none. I know JP easily has the most players, so that makes sense, but yeah, as a whole my splatfest went very smoothly.

Sure it did feel more like Ranked Turf Wars in higher power levels, but like, the power level IS a rank for the Splatfest, so it literally is Ranked TW... heh. I personally thought that was cool. But I understand the frustration of using a charger. I'd never be able to do that, and its considerably different from the way you'd play in any other Ranked mode.