Nintendo Switch Talk Thread

[Award]

"Mobile couch-coop" sounds magical in theory, like it could be the next best thing when it comes to reviving arcade memories. One concern I have is the controllers themselves; how big is this system going to be? How big will its components be? Assuming the NX is actually going to be lucky and be graced with any mainstream fighters releasing within the years 2017 through... i dunno, 2019(?), the controllers have to be adequate in order to support said games. One thing I'm really, really tired of is seeing what I have on the Nintendo console, then looking across the river to see the rest of the world playing every good fighter besides Smash. Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom was a nice treat on the Wii, but other than that? The 3DS port of Super Street Fighter IV never got the subsequent significant updates.

I worry that the system will seem too unworthy for devs to make good fighters for; no offense to anyone who's a fan of these, but I'm not exactly looking for the Naruto and DBZ arena fighters, either. That, and I worry that the controllers will not be adequate (dude, I HOPE those controllers have more buttons than the mock image suggests...) , nor will the system support USB ports for arcade sticks. I suppose the right thing to pray for is that more collaborations like Pokken happen.

I think Nintendo's history with fighters really ensured it would never be the platform of choice. Blood-gate in Mortal Kombat SNES kind of started the exodus of fighters from Nintendo so it was just, mentally, the last choice for the genre from the start. Sega, and later XBox (who actually hired post-Dreamcast Sega to help with XBox) carreid that torch.. Today it's twofold though. Handheld has never been a prime choice for fighters just because it's not the "main platforms" and Street Fighter on 3DS was just Capcom being Capcom. It sold very well actually. Lack of support was kind of weird. But that's Capcom circa 2011. But also, Smash. Ninty is the only platform owner with a 1st party major fighting title that competes in the big leagues. Like the post above...who wants to compete against that? Well, traditionally anyway, XBOne has KI now, but I'd say Smash is a much bigger calling card than KI. EVERY N gamer interested in fighting games buys Smash. So then there's a smattering of attention on the platform for the competition. N's strength is their weakness. People buy the platform for N's games. Then buy other games if there's something not satisfied by N's offerings. Catch-22. But I don't think portable has much to do with the gap there.

Regarding the controllers, there's a few mockups, but none of them are based on any real leaked rumors. The internals and features are leaked (maybe) but the actual layout/industrial design of the thing is a total unknown until a pic is leaked or revealed. I imagine dev kits don't have production controllers, they're probably just pro controllers rigged to work on the NX's radio. So the only people who know what it looks like are in Takeda's building and nowhere else! Much too soon to worry about the button layout. All we know as fact is that it has enough buttons to run Breath of the Wild, meaning it shouldn't be far off from WiiU, and better than 3DS. We don't even know if it has sticks, circle pads, touch pads (like SteamBox was rumored to have originally) or something new.

I rambled about my worries regarding the controllers above. I'm going to be really, really brutally honest with myself and admit my so-called "diehard" loyalty to Nintendo is being tested with these rumors; it just seems like a system that devs are going to ignore when it comes to good fighters. Which is absolutely the worst case scenario. In actuality, there's nothing really wrong here, it looks fine, the console seems really cool, I just hope this unique approach to gaming isn't what deters devs from making games of this particular genre for the system.

Oh, right, the screen. TV mode is a given so i'm not too worried about that, but hey, I'd always dig a bigger screen than a small one. In theory, if something like Street Fighter V made its way to NX (which it won't), I could handle it, but in no way in HELL am I playing Marvel Vs. Capcom on the NX's screen.

I think the major fighting game vendors are big Nintendo partners in general. Capcom, Namco-Bandai, Sega. I think it comes down to perceived demand. If those companies feel a lot of fighting game fans bought an NX they'll put the games on NX. If not, they'll play it safe. 3DS did very well in Japan but the lack of couch multiplayer and wonky online didn't make fighters as appealing. IMO, 3DS was still a good platform for it though with the local multiplayer. I think the lack of additional inputs from a second stick really held it back for that genre. But in Japan, few buy consoles these days, and I suppose Vita had the better portable layout. I suspect more games came to BOTH handhelds in Japan for that genre than here. It's a pretty darn niche genre here.


Edit: Yes, double post, the two conversations were relatively separate and the first text too long to include the second.

 

[SpiralRhapsody]

(HUGE yet good post)

Okay, it's not entirely hopeless, I keep forgetting Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom did grace the Wii. Also, the Wii U obviously has Smash, though it also has Pokken and a good port of Tekken Tag 2. That's fine.

You're exactly right. It really does come down to demand. And frankly, I think I'm sort of a rare consumer, while the majority is buying Nintendo products for.... Nintendo things.

 

[Flareth]

But kids these days don't understand fighters. Fighters are played on large joysticks they way they were meant to be played! :p

*shrugs* I'll just learn how to jury-rig my N64 controller to match up with the average fight pad, see if that works better than having to split the buttons between my hands. (Or I would, if my friend wasn't a wuss and soft-banned us from playing any non-Smash fighting games... *grumble grumble*...)

"The Dark History of the Wii U"

Yikes. I didn't know about most of this. The situation really is that dire. Not necessarily a matter of life-and-death yet, but if there isn't an audience for the NX as a result of Nintendo following the wrong rabbit trail, then the likelyhood of it being anything better than a minor success seems even more pie-in-the-sky than what the NintenDOOMers are saying. Unless I'm reading things wrong...

unlike WiiU or GCN, NX sounds like it hits the pulse of modern consumer electronics. Why buys electronics tethered to the wall in the age of the smartphone? Pokemon Go confirms: Mobile is where the mass market (read not AAA Dorito gamers) is, and NX really needs only the slogan "It's what PS Vita said it was but wasn't, except a lot better" :p

...which I think I might have. I still have some doubts that the mobile audience will buy into it that much, but I guess going after them is the only realistic option that Nintendo has. It's not like anybody else wants much to do with them.

We know that all buttons required for Breath of the Wild are present. So we know there's probably a lot of buttons. But it's fair to assume the couch co-op gets HALF those buttons and games have to be designed that co-op mode takes less buttons - OR - requiring external controllers, depending on the game. Nintendo likes "supported controller" confusion, so it would be normal for them. I can see the built in controller halves being for simplified games (3D World). you only need more complex controls for split-screen games (which are better on the TV with a separate pro controller anyway obviously.) Simpler games like fighters, platformers would work ok with limited buttons. And I suspect it will still support local multiplayer like 3DS so if you have two NX's you each use your own screen. I love 3DS local multi, compared to split screen.

Having to buy a separate controller for couch co-op defeats the entire purpose of the controllers being detachable. And I'm not convinced that making a separate controller with extra buttons as its only selling point is such a wise call. (Then again, Microsoft kinda did that with the Xbone Elite controller, but I've heard little about how well it's been doing.)

If they're going that route anyway, I'd assume that each half only needs a circle pad and a couple buttons to function optimally; maybe they could go the Famicom route and give one half the Start/Select buttons and the other one a Home key. If they at least include another controller setup (with the full button and stick/pad layout, including the scrollwheel buttons) with the Home bundle, I won't complain too much.

I'll miss the clamshells though. Hmm, maybe the controllers actually form the LID? Hmm...Flip-OUT controllers would be cool :) Though the hinge would be a weak point, maybe not.

Funny, I'd actually thought something similar. Thing is, in my mind such a design prevents them from detatching, even though I'm sure there'd be some workaround for that. And if I'm not mistaken, Nintendo's been working on making their hinges a little more stable ever since the days of the DS Phat.

MHL. A Sony patent dont'cha know. Don't count on it :p It would be a handy interface though....

...no? I looked it up, and it's not quite what I was thinking of. That specific cable is a part of it (apparently it's called a micro-USB), but not the whole thing.

At any rate, I wasn't thinking that was going to be the main charging cord. I figure it'll use something like the GamePad's charger, if not reuse the exact same cable.

I think the NX bundles would be pretty ideal in Japan really. The home console market is dying but not dead. If you don't have to spend much money bundling a dock in a box to cater to a niche market, why not go for it? Even if you sell to the 1.5M that bought Splatoon, that's 1.5M docks sold. Not bad for dropping a hunk of plastic in a cardboard box along with the new handheld! It really embodies the reason the whole hybrid idea isn't just good but is really essential. Among the consoles, Ninty has always had its main market in Japan....if Japan's getting out of consoles, so must Nintendo. The hybrid ties it up so nicely. I also think with a hybrid bundle with dock people that would NOT have bought a console like Jane in the dorm, might pick up the bundle anyway - it's only a little more and you get a console for "free" out of your handheld without taking up more space than a dock! (If there's a TV.)

In that case, why bother with basic and deluxe bundles to begin with? Seems to me like they'd do better with a single bundle consisting of the NX plus its dock, controller(s), and the necessary cables.

Combination of all the above. Business: Stats show Ninty gamers buy Ninty games. Why make your game for Ninty if Metroid comes out the same quarter? Nobody on that platform buys your game anyway. Everyone on XBox does where your game IS the Metroid equivalent. Business: Helping Nintendo succeed is helping a competitor succeed. Why not help Ninty's competition beat them especially while they're weak. personal: EA and Activision exist largely as a reaction to Nintendo. They EXIST to be anti-Nintendo. Nintendo, back in the 80s was....not a very nice company. Yamauchi was a shark. His attack dogs at NoA, Lincoln and Arakawa (his son in law) used strongarm and monopolistic practices, some of which are now illegal (refusing to sell to retailers that sold Sega etc.) the strict max licenced games per year (good for gaming actually, but bad for those publishers.) The big publishers popped up to fight against that system and push competing brands. (Ironically Sega screwed EA worse :p )

And yet I keep hearing people say that anti-Nintendoism is BS, that 3rd-parties will work with them if they feel they can make money out of it. The FIFA example I used is a bit off-base considering the timeframe, but I went with it because of what it implies about EA's attitude towards Nintendo (there can't seriously be more futebol fans with a PS2 than a Wii U for their primary console, can there? So much for graphics whoring, at least the U can handle players that don't look like jaggy messes).

Meh. That's on them for letting a grudge get the better of their business sense. Their loss.

 

[Award]

Yikes. I didn't know about most of this. The situation really is that dire. Not necessarily a matter of life-and-death yet, but if there isn't an audience for the NX as a result of Nintendo following the wrong rabbit trail, then the likelyhood of it being anything better than a minor success seems even more pie-in-the-sky than what the NintenDOOMers are saying. Unless I'm reading things wrong...

Ultimately I think it comes down to Nintendo needing to realize who their market is. Are they a mass market product that makes small margin through large volume, or a niche product that makes high margin on low volume. Truthfully Nintendo consoles have NEVER set the world on fire. We like to think of NES and SNES, and while Nintendo was a pop culture icon in the era, their cemented role in video gaming was really because they were a monopoly, and then the leading half of a duopoly in what was a niche field extended from the TOY market. NES and SNES didn't really move THAT many units. It was still a niche, and sold largely at toy stores. But if you were a gamer, of course Nintendo was the center of the universe. Sony has been the only one to really hit "mass market" on consoles by pushing it through their role as a "high end consumer electronics brand." instead of a toy starting with PSX.

But Nintendo handheld numbers on the other hand have been mass market from the DMG-01 Game Boy onward. I think their internal conflict is they look at their handheld numbers and try to build consoles to match in volume, and even succeeded, by fluke, on the Wii. Note that they have, to date NEVER actually lost money on a console. They don't SPEND like Sony and MS do. The GameCube was profitable. The WiiU was, believe it or not, profitable. Not MUCH break-even, but it made money. No one's ever turned the lights off by making money...

Microsoft on the other hand has never MADE a profit on XBox. They've thrown good money after bad and lost MILLIONS on the whole XBox brand. I mean it's absurd the kind of money they lose over there. Why do we consider XBox a "success" and Nintendo "in trouble" while Ninty's making a profit, and Microsoft is losing money like a hot cocoa salesman in the Sahara? Meanwhile Sony Corp is in such bad shape they've been selling real estate like popcorn, though Playstation is one of their few profitable arms that would stand to be spun independent if Sony goes down (but can Playstation turn a profit without special access to Sony hardware?)

it's about what they expect from it. Nintendo is chasing Wii numbers, NX is going to fail. If they're chasing DS numbers they're going to fail. Even the mighty PS4, on track to be the #1 selling (home) console of all time, won't even come close to DS numbers. PS4 isn't even likely to reach 3DS numbers, which is still the #1 overall console this gen (people seem to forget Ninty success! Handhelds didn't used to be lumped in with "console sales" but 3DS really crosses the line into being a console in its own right.) 3DS is viewed as a failure in a downturn from mobile competition compared to DS, but everyone ignores that it's sold amazing numbers in absolute terms.

So if NX is a hybrid, it pays to NOT look at the potential NX market as the SNES, N64, GCN, Wii, WIIU market. It's potential market is the GB/GBC/GBA/DS/3DS market. Which is massively larger, and possibly even larger than Sony's market. If the price is right, anyone who bought 3DS will buy NX. The fact that it would also be a console AND a handheld really expands that market. Even if it doesn't sell more in VOLUME than 3DS, keep in mind that includes Nintendo selling with lower EXPENSES marketing one system in two markets than two systems in two markets and multiple dev teams, meaning more relative profits. Never underestimate the earnings boosts of streamlined operations for pleasing shareholders!

...which I think I might have. I still have some doubts that the mobile audience will buy into it that much, but I guess going after them is the only realistic option that Nintendo has. It's not like anybody else wants much to do with them.

I'm not sure that it's so much a matter of luring the mobile audience specifically so much as presenting an alternative to mobile gaming that doesn't clash with the mobile lifestyle. Mobile gamers will be mobile gamers. For them, there's Miitomo. Some may see the light and buy a real console. Most won't. But some mobile gamers are otherwise gamers who play mobile because it's convenient versus their PS4 at home. Or who don't buy a PS4 because they don't have time at home like they used to. 3DS appeals to these people, but 3DS has a different kind of games. Giving these people home console games on a portable devices (co-branded by nVidia perhaps, no less) will buy in. A good friend of mine (in the dev industry), ultra hardcore PC gamer, had been an early kickstarter investor for some Linux based gaming handheld for some rediculous amount of money forever. This was pre-Shield. A serious console, handheld DOES appeal to the mobile crowd and the core crowd even as a niche. Everything is moving mobile these days. Even core gamers at times. That's not to say the appeal of mobile games but the appeal of BEING mobile. Even I haven't played Splatoon all that much lately, preferring to catch up on my 3DS backlog outdoors. If Splatoon were mobile? I'd be playing Splatoon outdoors :) More of he "core" crowed might be interested in that. Especially if Mobile open-world-E3-winning Zelda is a launch title. Even the COD core fawns over Zelda :P

Having to buy a separate controller for couch co-op defeats the entire purpose of the controllers being detachable. And I'm not convinced that making a separate controller with extra buttons as its only selling point is such a wise call. (Then again, Microsoft kinda did that with the Xbone Elite controller, but I've heard little about how well it's been doing.)

If they're going that route anyway, I'd assume that each half only needs a circle pad and a couple buttons to function optimally; maybe they could go the Famicom route and give one half the Start/Select buttons and the other one a Home key. If they at least include another controller setup (with the full button and stick/pad layout, including the scrollwheel buttons) with the Home bundle, I won't complain too much.

When it comes to controller uniformity I give Nintendo an E for Effort :P They're not uncomfortable requiring different controllers for different games. One could say there's a bad plan....but then look at Guitar Hero.... :P Perhaps special controls for different games isn't a bad plan. Maybe they could be Amiibos :P

I think a second controller versus having to buy two NX's is still a good plan. Mabye the Home Bundle includes it.

Funny, I'd actually thought something similar. Thing is, in my mind such a design prevents them from detatching, even though I'm sure there'd be some workaround for that. And if I'm not mistaken, Nintendo's been working on making their hinges a little more stable ever since the days of the DS Phat.

Ninty hinges are quite solid (N3DS has an SS rod through the joint) but I don't know that any designer would ever use such a hinge as the pressure point for holding a unit. But that WOULD serve to solve the problem of covering the analog sticks for transport (if it's sticks), and protecting the screen. N3DS proves Ninty DOES know how to make modern sleek consumer electronics.

Making the hinge have a release probably wouldn't be troublesome. If the "end" blocks of the N3DS body were to be removable the lid would slide right off the rod.

...no? I looked it up, and it's not quite what I was thinking of. That specific cable is a part of it (apparently it's called a micro-USB), but not the whole thing.

At any rate, I wasn't thinking that was going to be the main charging cord. I figure it'll use something like the GamePad's charger, if not reuse the exact same cable.

A USB charger would be slick if it wouldn't present charging confusion. Same with WiiU. It all depends on voltage. If plugging in the wrong charger would be possible and could damage the unit, they'd make sure the plug was not compatible. But the WiiU Gamepad charger would probably be appropriate voltage. That's a big battery too. That would be cool. I wouldn't have to re-run wires behind the rack :P

In that case, why bother with basic and deluxe bundles to begin with? Seems to me like they'd do better with a single bundle consisting of the NX plus its dock, controller(s), and the necessary cables.

From Jan stats in Japan:
Lifetime Sales:
WiiU: 3 Mil
PS4 2.4 Mil (Yes, WiiU is ahead of PS4 in Japan....and neither number is great.)
XBO: 64k (ROFL.)
3DS: 21.3Mil (whoa!)

No reason to NOT sell a home dock kit in Japan and capture the 3 million+ purchasers interested. Considering Nintendo home consoles are still the #1 home consoles in Japan, no reason to not offer the home console package just because 700% more people want only the handheld :) 24 million sales are better than 21 million sales after all! (Or, if you're Microsoft, try to figure out why you couldn't even get the population of a single district in Tokyo to buy your product....) :P Especially in Japan selling the bundle $50 (equiv) cheaper without the home dock stuff will still garner more sales volume for those that don't want it. And nobody wants to waste space or materials when you live on an island.... you don't buy what you don't need. :P

And yet I keep hearing people say that anti-Nintendoism is BS, that 3rd-parties will work with them if they feel they can make money out of it. The FIFA example I used is a bit off-base considering the timeframe, but I went with it because of what it implies about EA's attitude towards Nintendo (there can't seriously be more futebol fans with a PS2 than a Wii U for their primary console, can there? So much for graphics whoring, at least the U can handle players that don't look like jaggy messes).

Meh. That's on them for letting a grudge get the better of their business sense. Their loss.

3rd parties will work with them, to a degree, if they feel they can make money out of it. The Wii and DS are the stars of that ethos. No consoles at the time sound more than tnose. No console ever has sold more than DS. Where was EA and Activision and Bethesda and Take Two? They had MORE excuses that their audience wasn't there, the hardware wasn't there, etc. EA and Acti put some shovelware out on it. Acti did well with COD actually. The bottom line is they know where their audience is, and their audience is with anything but Nintendo, and those that have Nintendo ALSO have something else. XBO/PS4 PAYS these companies to make games for them. Nintendo does not. Those platforms are built to the requirements of those companies needs and audience. Nintendo does not. Nintendo had 3rd parties back in the SNES and NES era purely because there was no real competition. They mistreated their business partners. And then they went a different way when those partners left, in part, because they were their own competitor. Ninty can't ever do what Sony/MS does with consoles because they're technically in a different industry. Ironically the companies that hate Nintendo do NOT want Nintendo to go 3rd Party any more than Nintendo does. They LIKE that Nintendo is trapped in their own ecosystem because it keeps them out of direct competition. Everyone gets their piece of the pie. Imagine BoTW, the game that consumed all of E3 releasing on ALL platforms? It would make Skyrim's launch look like a modest release. Who would be buying Elder Scrolls Remastered or Dragon Age that month or three? But Nintendo couldn't sustain those development budgets without their captive audience buying their lower budget games. The ecosystem works for everyone.


I doubt PS2 FIFA sells well in the US or EU or UK, but I imagine it sells quite well in Brazil, Chile, Egypt, etc where this stuff is comparatively WAY more expensive and thus behind the times.

 

[Flareth]

Hang on a minute... we've been going on about detachable controllers and couch co-op and so on—have we talked about the storage this thing'll have? I'd anticipate it'll be wholly based around microSD cards, like the 3DS is, but so far as I know they aren't exactly the pinnacle of capacity. Looking around online, I see that there exist decent-capacity cards for cheap prices, so hopefully they can get away with including a 32GB card without driving the price up too much. Hopefully they're not also a pain to take out. (Of course, it's likely that there'll be a few USB ports somewhere on the system/dock to plug in an external drive.)

Microsoft on the other hand has never MADE a profit on XBox. They've thrown good money after bad and lost MILLIONS on the whole XBox brand. I mean it's absurd the kind of money they lose over there. Why do we consider XBox a "success" and Nintendo "in trouble" while Ninty's making a profit, and Microsoft is losing money like a hot cocoa salesman in the Sahara? Meanwhile Sony Corp is in such bad shape they've been selling real estate like popcorn, though Playstation is one of their few profitable arms that would stand to be spun independent if Sony goes down (but can Playstation turn a profit without special access to Sony hardware?)

Is that so? Wow, I thought they were both doing a lot better.

I figure that was a rhetorical question, but I'm guessing that they're only looking at sales numbers here. It's a basic conclusion, really: Company A with 14 million systems sold is going to have more money in their pocket than Company B with only 4mil sold. I guess it does kinda break down if Company A's selling their wares at a loss while Company B makes a profit per sale, so the assumption probably requires both companies to be either making a profit or selling at a loss.
At least, I think that's their reasoning. It's what I'd think, anyway.

Y'know, I've been running under the assumption that Nintendo was pretty stable financially, given that the DS and Wii were such successes in their time, along with amiibo being a smash hit in the last few years. Is that truly the case, or was the U enough of a failure to force them to empty out those reserves?

I'm not sure that it's so much a matter of luring the mobile audience specifically so much as presenting an alternative to mobile gaming that doesn't clash with the mobile lifestyle. Mobile gamers will be mobile gamers. For them, there's Miitomo. Some may see the light and buy a real console. Most won't. But some mobile gamers are otherwise gamers who play mobile because it's convenient versus their PS4 at home. Or who don't buy a PS4 because they don't have time at home like they used to. 3DS appeals to these people, but 3DS has a different kind of games. Giving these people home console games on a portable devices (co-branded by nVidia perhaps, no less) will buy in. A good friend of mine (in the dev industry), ultra hardcore PC gamer, had been an early kickstarter investor for some Linux based gaming handheld for some rediculous amount of money forever. This was pre-Shield. A serious console, handheld DOES appeal to the mobile crowd and the core crowd even as a niche. Everything is moving mobile these days. Even core gamers at times. That's not to say the appeal of mobile games but the appeal of BEING mobile. Even I haven't played Splatoon all that much lately, preferring to catch up on my 3DS backlog outdoors. If Splatoon were mobile? I'd be playing Splatoon outdoors :) More of he "core" crowed might be interested in that. Especially if Mobile open-world-E3-winning Zelda is a launch title. Even the COD core fawns over Zelda :p

Huh, I see. A core gaming experience you can take anywhere... a concept that appeals to both audiences at the same time without alienating either. For the hardcore crowd, they can get some of the best, most impressive games on a system they can toss in their bag and take around campus; for the casuals, it's a gateway drug to an experience unlike any they've had before. Without any need to sacrifice specs or gameplay, and without the concern of getting sucked into Freemium Hell #908.

This could very well be a success.

When it comes to controller uniformity I give Nintendo an E for Effort :p They're not uncomfortable requiring different controllers for different games. One could say there's a bad plan....but then look at Guitar Hero.... :p Perhaps special controls for different games isn't a bad plan. Maybe they could be Amiibos :p

I think a second controller versus having to buy two NX's is still a good plan. Mabye the Home Bundle includes it.

In fairness to Guitar Hero, the nature of the series kinda makes it difficult to play it with just a regular controller. But having to put up with a different controller for every single game would be a HUGE buzzkill, not gonna lie. Besides, methinks GH is the only series that still clings to requiring a non-standard controller. (The GamePad looks like it's in the same boat, but it's just a standard controller with a touch screen in the middle, so it doesn't really count.)

Naw man, the amiibos are the games, remember? Alternatively, when you buy an amiibo you get a controller themed after that figure. Or the other way around, buy a character-themed controller and get a free amiibo with it.

From Jan stats in Japan:
Lifetime Sales:
WiiU: 3 Mil
PS4 2.4 Mil (Yes, WiiU is ahead of PS4 in Japan....and neither number is great.)
XBO: 64k (ROFL.)
3DS: 21.3Mil (whoa!)

No reason to NOT sell a home dock kit in Japan and capture the 3 million+ purchasers interested. Considering Nintendo home consoles are still the #1 home consoles in Japan, no reason to not offer the home console package just because 700% more people want only the handheld :) 24 million sales are better than 21 million sales after all! (Or, if you're Microsoft, try to figure out why you couldn't even get the population of a single district in Tokyo to buy your product....) :p Especially in Japan selling the bundle $50 (equiv) cheaper without the home dock stuff will still garner more sales volume for those that don't want it. And nobody wants to waste space or materials when you live on an island.... you don't buy what you don't need. :p

Right, that makes more sense. Perhaps I'd do well to not think of the Home bundle as the Console bundle, considering that just having the dock doesn't necessitate the NX being bolted to the ground like a traditional console.

I doubt PS2 FIFA sells well in the US or EU or UK, but I imagine it sells quite well in Brazil, Chile, Egypt, etc where this stuff is comparatively WAY more expensive and thus behind the times.

Oh I know that, it's how I found out that those versions were being made. That, plus the fact that FIFA '14 was both the last one for the PS2 and the first to exclude the Wii U, is why I said it was an iffy example. I roll with it only because of how ludicrous it sounds on the surface.

 

[Award]

Hang on a minute... we've been going on about detachable controllers and couch co-op and so on—have we talked about the storage this thing'll have? I'd anticipate it'll be wholly based around microSD cards, like the 3DS is, but so far as I know they aren't exactly the pinnacle of capacity. Looking around online, I see that there exist decent-capacity cards for cheap prices, so hopefully they can get away with including a 32GB card without driving the price up too much. Hopefully they're not also a pain to take out. (Of course, it's likely that there'll be a few USB ports somewhere on the system/dock to plug in an external drive.)

Yeah if I were to guess the main unit will have an SD or microSD slot like 3DS. No reason not to (Unless they want to pull a Sony with proprietary memory cards. Still hilarious that Nintendo the king of proprietary uses plain old SD on the 3DS and Sony a freaking patent partner on SD went with bizzarro expensive proprietary stuff on Vita.) Still, SD fits a lot. As long as it supports SDXC it can theoretically support 2TB. Not that they make such cards cheaply or at all right now, but when they make them they will work. 128 is easily available on the market at relatively good prices now. Not bad for storage. It's very possible the dock would support an external HDD like WiiU but I'm not really sure that's practical. Wouldn't you want your digital collection portable with you? And if you had a hybrid NX would you really want your game library to have to be left behind if you take the portable? Not really sure they'd want to support that. Games will be way bigger than for 3DS of course. But for whatever reason even most WiiU games are not as big as PS4 games.

Given Nintendo going with 8GB for N3DS and 32GB for WiiU deluxe, 32 sounds about right, 5 years later, for NX :P It's Nintendo...

On the other hand I think NX will make a case for physical media revival. Companies love digital due to low costs to operate and no middle men so it's all profit. BUT there's a dark side. They NEED their retail space and Nintendo needs retail space most of all. That's how they keep hardware in stores and visible to customers. And since Ninty goes for mass market "average consumer" appeal, the angsty-teen advertise-online sell digital world of the other brands doesn't work for them as well. If running full console games on cartridges, that means you don't need any local storage other than for saves. The whole point of HDD installs is because disc is too slow to run a game. The whole point of huge PS4 HDDs isn't for the PSN Store but for installs, and honestly it only fits a handful of games before running out, even if you have disc games. Running on cartridges, NX would be speedy running from local physical media without any HDD or need to install. And small cartridges are easy to transport, and fun to use :) I just keep all my 3DS carts in a zipper bag like bingo chips...dump them out, find the one I'm looking for....no carefulness needed :P OR the Amiibos could be the cartridges! :P NX would make a strong case to buy physical over digital.

Is that so? Wow, I thought they were both doing a lot better.

I figure that was a rhetorical question, but I'm guessing that they're only looking at sales numbers here. It's a basic conclusion, really: Company A with 14 million systems sold is going to have more money in their pocket than Company B with only 4mil sold. I guess it does kinda break down if Company A's selling their wares at a loss while Company B makes a profit per sale, so the assumption probably requires both companies to be either making a profit or selling at a loss.
At least, I think that's their reasoning. It's what I'd think, anyway.

Y'know, I've been running under the assumption that Nintendo was pretty stable financially, given that the DS and Wii were such successes in their time, along with amiibo being a smash hit in the last few years. Is that truly the case, or was the U enough of a failure to force them to empty out those reserves?

XBox started as a marketing expense to promote Windows in the living room before tablets and ultrabooks. They dumped FORTUNES making it float and AFAIK as successful as 360 was it didn't even refill the reserves of what they lost, and took years itself to even turn an on-paper profit, ignoring the debt of the first unit. 360 ate its own reserves with the RROD disaster. Those repairs were not cheap. XBO is overall a failure which is why they're pushing Scorpio so soon (and to head off NX). Humorously Phil Spencer of XBox was defending WiiU sales to the press as not nearly as bad as they presented it :P "The enemy of my enemy" and all that, MS has been playing VERY friendly with Nintendo including partnering with DKC and such.

Yeah, people are looking at sales numbers and market cap to determine "success" and in the circus that is the financial world everyone seems to forget that you're supposed to turn a profit. Endless spending in hopes of "expanding market reach" sounds great for returns....if it ever produces a return. MS is paying their customers to buy the product, paying their partners to supply games for their product, and paying for the original R&D to make the product and the whole business to keep selling it. Try submitting that as a business plan for a business loan: Here's the plan. I'm going to open a donut shop. I'm going to spend $1M opening the shop and $100k a year to operate it. Each donot will cost $0.45 to make. I'll sell them to my customers for $0.40 to keep costs below competition. Then I'll pay the frying oil company a portion of their production expenses to ensure they deliver oil to me FIRST. I'll sell more donuts than anyone else! It'll be a hit! :P (Of course if you're Microsoft you can say "then I'll plug the gaping debt hole in donuts with my ridiculous effort free royalties in Android OS so I can make it look like I had less capital gains to be taxed on there....") :P

Nintendo goes with the model of "We'll keep yearly costs down to $60k, take some shortcuts, sell donuts at $0.55, and wait for the frying oil company to beg us to buy from them. We'll tell investors we expect to sell 2M donuts and make $1B profits. We really expect to make $500 profits. But hey, it's a profit!

Sony can sell donuts at $1 each, more than enough to bribe the oil company and make a tidy profit. Sadly all the donut profit gets poured into making their cheeseburger shop that used to be the top of the company pay the water bill because frankly who still buys Sony TV...err...cheeseburgers?

The world of finance tells us company A is the better company :P And THAT is why the global economy is FUBAR.

Fun fact, Amazon has NEVER actually posted a profit. It's never made a single penny. Yet it's worth billions because of "market cap" - Investors hope that if it can only become a monopoly than the decades of spending money will result in becoming the planet's sole retailer and yield unlimited money. So they keep throwing money into it. Yes, investors are morons. Rich morons, maybe, but morons all the same. The crowd throwing money at Nintendo for Pokemon Go until Nintendo politely told them they don't actually make Poekmon Go, then they all ran away... that should be another clue :P


So we have the big 3 console makers. 1 pays YOU to take their lousy console. Not a long term plan. The other does very well but the parent company is in VERY dire straits for now. And Nintendo makes modest profits. And the world declares the first two winners and the third DOOMED! Translation: Nintendo rarely yields windfall profits for short term investors. If you're a bank investing for 30 years...that's the one you want to be in :)

Oh Ninty has cash reserves. Huge cash reserves. They're conservative. They don't spend what they don't have to spend. The WiiU years were surrounded by some big operating expenses. New real estate, construction, reorganizing major internal departments, acquisitions, and entering new markets (theme parks etc.) Makes the balance sheets look worse due to the outflow for investment. But the operating expenses weren't losses so much as investments. Remember: 3DS made a tidy profit, and WiiU made a tiny profit. Other than Virtual Boy Nintendo's never LOST money and has always MADE money on every piece of hardware. Even if they netted $1 from WiiU, it leaves them in a better position than before WiiU ;) The only "loss" was brand momentum. (Granted some games lose like Starfox 0 lost some money. But then surprise hits like Splatoon more than make up for it.)

Lets put it this way. Microsoft's entire business model is acquisitions of their competitors. Anyone that challenges them they buy them. Problem solved. You can do that when you're worth fortunes. Unless the competitor is too expensive to buy without severe impact to the company. If Ninty were doing poorly, they'd be a Microsoft subsidiary by now. They're still much too expensive for even MS to purchase without negative impact :) MS would have to come up with hard cash for a very liquid company like Nintendo. Easier said than done when your assets are all paper.

Huh, I see. A core gaming experience you can take anywhere... a concept that appeals to both audiences at the same time without alienating either. For the hardcore crowd, they can get some of the best, most impressive games on a system they can toss in their bag and take around campus; for the casuals, it's a gateway drug to an experience unlike any they've had before. Without any need to sacrifice specs or gameplay, and without the concern of getting sucked into Freemium Hell #908.

This could very well be a success.

Precisely! :) And I think the BoTW focused E3 was a great test balloon. They know they can target casuals with a new handheld, no shockers there. But what BoTW showed at E3 is that the core gamer audience, the PSXBox crowd, is into what Nintendo's core offerings offer in a big way. A major, huge, open world game already has their interest. Tell them they can play it wherever they go? That might turn a lot of core gamer eyes to NX that would have ignored a turbo-charged home console from Nintendo. "A new way to play" indeed. If they can sell tho the whole 3DS base, tap a little of the mobile base, and tap a little of the PSXBox base, I don't know if they'll get Wii/DS numbers still, but they can get a very solid market, with a lot less internal expenses without having to maintain two platforms (very expensive to do.)

In fairness to Guitar Hero, the nature of the series kinda makes it difficult to play it with just a regular controller. But having to put up with a different controller for every single game would be a HUGE buzzkill, not gonna lie. Besides, methinks GH is the only series that still clings to requiring a non-standard controller. (The GamePad looks like it's in the same boat, but it's just a standard controller with a touch screen in the middle, so it doesn't really count.)

Naw man, the amiibos are the games, remember? Alternatively, when you buy an amiibo you get a controller themed after that figure. Or the other way around, buy a character-themed controller and get a free amiibo with it.

I don't know. Guitar hero is mostly "hit the right colored button at the right time". There's little a Dual Shock can't handle there. I don't think EVERY game will have special controllers. But certain "important" games might. Kart, Smash, etc. And don't forget the Nyco & PDP licensed/unlicensed add-on controllers! :) Nothing new. I had unlicensed "turbo" controllers for NES after all :) But how well has the GCN for WiiU controller done, and that's only useful on Smash (sadly.)

Right, that makes more sense. Perhaps I'd do well to not think of the Home bundle as the Console bundle, considering that just having the dock doesn't necessitate the NX being bolted to the ground like a traditional console.

Exactly. "The internet" tends to think of it as a console that can go portable, when it's really a portable with the power of a console that can be played like a console too. (Rumor pending... :) ) The concept is simple and obvious and hardly seems revolutionary. But in every discussion it breaks down into people who are thinking of it as a console and arguing about it in terms of power versus other consoles while not comprehending it's portable and the other consoles are not, versus people thinking of it as another handheld and not understanding that it's a real console with everybody missing the point that the value is that it's BOTH. So it may be more revolutionary than the concept implies :) Splatoon and Zelda outdoors, Fire Emblem and Pokemon indoors. The best of both in one place. FIFA....well probably nowhere....but who cares when you have Splatoon and Zelda and Pokemon everywhere? :P (Which brings us back to why EA won't ever support Nintendo platforms :P )

Oh I know that, it's how I found out that those versions were being made. That, plus the fact that FIFA '14 was both the last one for the PS2 and the first to exclude the Wii U, is why I said it was an iffy example. I roll with it only because of how ludicrous it sounds on the surface.

Oh why can't FIFA be like Just Dance? :P

 

[Flareth]

IT. IS. TIME.

We're getting a first look at the NX tomorrow at 7AM PST/10AM EST. Finally, we can find out just what the hell this thing is. I don't know what to expect, but I'm all ears.

 

[Ansible]

*Rattles pouch in hand like a gambler holding dice then casts contents on the ground. Observes fragments of Chibi Robo, a torn shred of Paper Mario, broken fragments of the Metroid franchise and near invisible third-party support.*

Mm. Mmhm. These runes tell me much. *nods* I see elation followed by derision, leading into a self-perpetuating imbroglio.There will be much hope but even more skepticism while cynicism tries to strangle them both. The future will be a most contentious one. A most contentious one indeed. Mm. Mmhm.

 

[Flareth]

If by "skepticism and cynicism" you mean "that's another stupid name for a system," then... yeah, fair enough.

But other than that? I think the future bodes well.

Spoiler: My thoughts/Trailer Details

Looks like the detatchable controller thing was right on the money. It's not so bad in action now that I see it. The D-Pad looks a little wonky, but if I could live with Microsoft's D-Pads for two generations then these shouldn't need much of an adjustment period.

The system has a kickstand, which is neat. But the two halves don't connect to each other, which looks very weird. Thankfully it does come with a more traditional controller, but it seems to be limited to home use. Fair enough, I suppose.

So either backwards compatibility or HD ports are confirmed, judging by that Mario Kart 8 footage. I'm leaning towards the latter, considering that the screen shows both players holding two items at once and one of them using King Boo, who I don't think is in the main game.

...ahuh, so that explains the wonky-looking D-Pad. Each half gets a Control Stick and four buttons, like a modernized NES controller. That's pretty neat, actually. Dunno if I'll use that that much on account of my giant hands, but whatevs.

lol nba on a nntendo system what is this 2007?

I do believe that's a new Mario game we're looking at. It looks like a continuation of the Mario 3D Land style—holy cow that transition was near instantaneous. Is the dock made of magic, or is it just that capable?

Yep, that's definitely and HD Splatoon port I'm looking at. And what's this? New levels and hairstyles confirmed!

Oh man... this is it. March cannot come soon enough.

 

[Award]

If by "skepticism and cynicism" you mean "that's another stupid name for a system," then... yeah, fair enough.

But other than that? I think the future bodes well.

Spoiler: My thoughts/Trailer Details

Looks like the detatchable controller thing was right on the money. It's not so bad in action now that I see it. The D-Pad looks a little wonky, but if I could live with Microsoft's D-Pads for two generations then these shouldn't need much of an adjustment period.

The system has a kickstand, which is neat. But the two halves don't connect to each other, which looks very weird. Thankfully it does come with a more traditional controller, but it seems to be limited to home use. Fair enough, I suppose.

So either backwards compatibility or HD ports are confirmed, judging by that Mario Kart 8 footage. I'm leaning towards the latter, considering that the screen shows both players holding two items at once and one of them using King Boo, who I don't think is in the main game.

...ahuh, so that explains the wonky-looking D-Pad. Each half gets a Control Stick and four buttons, like a modernized NES controller. That's pretty neat, actually. Dunno if I'll use that that much on account of my giant hands, but whatevs.

lol nba on a nntendo system what is this 2007?

I do believe that's a new Mario game we're looking at. It looks like a continuation of the Mario 3D Land style—holy cow that transition was near instantaneous. Is the dock made of magic, or is it just that capable?

Yep, that's definitely and HD Splatoon port I'm looking at. And what's this? New levels and hairstyles confirmed!

Oh man... this is it. March cannot come soon enough.

Switch is an awesome name. Usually nintendo has cool codenames (revolution, cafe) and then blows it on the product "wii, wiiu". This time we got a product name that sounds like the codename. Sure, NX was cooler. But switch is good. Imagine if the codename was Switch and the product name was revealed to be "Together Play" or something :p "Play some switch" sounds good. "watching a Switch Twitch' could become a thing :P

Splatoon, without a gamepad and map and touch screen can't play exactly right. The current game REQUIRES the screen to really work (if you don't know the map status you're in trouble - and SJ is an important mechanic along with the map.) So it can't be just a straight port. Gameplay would need to be reworked and possibly some map redesign for visibility.

This thing looks awesome!

 

[Aori]

I still have a strong feeling the switch will be nintendo's downfall. I only ONLY want it for the splatoon sequel and even then i'm skeptical about how the games will run if they're cartridge based since I feel they wont be able to hold as much data. What about external hard drives? Those aren't super portable and if it's a hard to remove sd card i'll be peeved. I'm looking at you, NEW Nintendo 3ds.

Ultimately, i've heard more "This will be Nintendo's downfall" from friends than good remarks. I guess I could be biased because that's all i'm hearing and I don't find much to get it for- it just seems like a bigger and less convenient non-3d 3ds with no backwards compatibility at all. Wanna play your old games on this new console? NAH YOU JUST GOTTA BUY MORE OF OUR STUFF!!! HAHA!

[sarcasm] Great for people with no money, if you ask me [/sarcasm] :\

 

[Ansible]

We've been hearing naysayers and doom predictions since the Wii. So what makes this time around any different?

The rumor and speculation as to why it would be cartridges is because we've come to a point where the medium can hold more information than a disc. Which likely means none of this current nonsense of putting in a disc then immediately having to download the rest of the game before playing it.

Will dlc, patches, etc. download to the cart instead of internally, to a card or to a drive? Will the console allow cards and/or drives?

No clue! We'll have to find out next year.

Gyroscope, motion controls, touch capabilities, backwards compatibility?

No clue! We'll have to find out next year.

Keep in mind that the previous and current console generations have tried to get rid of backwards compatibility beforw, yet manage to drag their feet to meet us halfway. Eventually.

Early doom and gloom was expected--is always expected--but it's not like anyone can forecast an entire console's life cycle after watching a three minute Apple-style commercial.

 

[p14n0f]

I don't really get the whole want for backwards compatibility but then again I like to keep old systems around so maybe it's different for others.

So glad they have physical game media. Not a fan of online downloads (literally the only reason I haven't bought and played FE:if). I like the fast startup of cartridge, its small size, and if it means cheaper games from the $60 Wii U ones (based on one user's interesting comment about BD licencing versus cartridge storage), I'll be happy. HD remake would be cool for me, but I wouldn't want it to impede new game releases.

Kurotsuno, I am interested to hear why you have strong feeling that it will be Nintendo's downfall? I do agree about its being quite big; I prefer the smaller N3DS to the XL, but I'm not sure how to feel about the controller.

 

[Award]

I still have a strong feeling the switch will be nintendo's downfall. I only ONLY want it for the splatoon sequel and even then i'm skeptical about how the games will run if they're cartridge based since I feel they wont be able to hold as much data. What about external hard drives? Those aren't super portable and if it's a hard to remove sd card i'll be peeved. I'm looking at you, NEW Nintendo 3ds.

Ultimately, i've heard more "This will be Nintendo's downfall" from friends than good remarks. I guess I could be biased because that's all i'm hearing and I don't find much to get it for- it just seems like a bigger and less convenient non-3d 3ds with no backwards compatibility at all. Wanna play your old games on this new console? NAH YOU JUST GOTTA BUY MORE OF OUR STUFF!!! HAHA!

[sarcasm] Great for people with no money, if you ask me [/sarcasm] :\

Cartridges are superior to discs. Cartridges have ALWAYS been superior to discs. That's why Miyamoto insisted on keeping them for the N64 even though it turned out to be a bad business decision for 3rd parties. I mentioned it in the other thread but the reason for the switch to optical disc was because in the PSX/Saturn/N64 era, recorded music rather than EMU chiptunes, along with recorded voices, along with higher res textures were emerging, and this too a lot of storage. I mean some of the larger games were like 400 MEGABYTES! Solid state storage cost a fortune back then and optical discs were an economic way of getting large storage at low cost. First CD,s and then DVDs as FMV emerged into games. Also, this was during Sony's meteoric rise to #1 and they wanted to use their consoles to push a stranglehold on the media formats they owned: Compact Disc, Digital Versatile Disc, BluRay, and Universal Media Disc. We don't like to talk about the last one :p But the rest were very successful in helping them dominate the format wars, using Playstation to push it. PS4 is the first time EVER that they don't have a new storage media to sell along with the console. PSX=CD, PS2=DVD, PS3=BD, PS4....still BD.

Cartridges/cards/solid-state storage/NV-RAM, whatever the term. feature low power consumption, no moving parts, fast sequential read times, more importantly, random-access read times (iops) that are near par to their sequential read times, and high physical durability, where the motor drives and servos in the optical assembly of a disc reader are highly failure prone, and exceedingly slow (they can read only as fast as their PHYSICAL movement permits. And optical of course is not portable. Not without a lot of expensive shock and vibration dampers and even then has limits.

Disc by contrast is absurdly slow. It was disc that introduced load screens and wait times that were excessive. As a result PS4/XBO requires most of the contents of the disc to be copied to the local HDD. Sadly, they use an HDD and not an SSD by default, meaning even after install, their read-times are STILL excessively slow compared to a cartridge. Using Skyrim as the example (since we've seen it run on Switch now), load times are unbearable reading off disc on X360. They're not that great reading of the 5200RPM HDD spinner if you do the "store on disk" option for X360 either. PS4/XBO Hd version will surely require a full install. But load speeds will still yield loading screens to wait for. On contrast on the Switch cartridges the wait times would be very very short, reading everything form solid state storage on the gamecard.

Upgrading the PS4 to an SSD would help somewhat, but you still have to consume the space every time you install a game, you'd have to spend another $300 plus just for your storage, where Switch gives you the tiny SSD for free with every game you buy.... Cartridges are a DREAM if only people don't get sucked into the marketing stigma :) The cartridge factor alone would make me buy the multi-plats on my Switch before my PS4. "90's optical disc or modern card? Gee...which to pick? :) )

Storage-wise, I have a 1TB SD card floating around here somewhere. My PS4 game with a 2.5" 400GB 5200RPM drive.... Cards can come in huge sizes. A BD disc can hold 25GB on a single layer disc, 50GB dual layer (also SLOWER - it's meant for streaming 1080p video, not random access files.) These days at CONSUMER level you can buy a 32GB SD card for like $8. If you're buying a million or two at a time you can probably get them for $2-3 each. So for a $60 retail game, $2-3 bucks is covering the cost of the card. Not a big deal. And as time goes buy, costs go down and sizes go up. By the end of the Switch life cycle, 128GB cards could easily be reality for the same price, more than twice the size of a PS4/XBO game's 1 disc max. I wouldn't worry about max size or size to price ratio. Only two companies may print BD discs: Sony, and Disney. They may have added a third: those discs don't come free either. I think the era of the optical disc for data is VERY over. I think it's time for video content is on the wane as well.

Note: Windows 10 Retail does not ship with DVDs anymore. It ships with a thumbdrive.

For once, Nintendo's on the leading edge of the tech curve by going backwards :)


Though I have to agree, the SD card behind the eyeglass screws on N3DS was a real head-scratcher :)

As for Switch being like a 3DS. I think it fills a different role. It's not pocketable. 3DS is pocketable. And their insistance of saying "Switch Home console" over and over makes me think we haven't seen the last of a pocketable handheld yet either (even if it's a "Switch mobile" that plays Switch cartridges on a tinier format.) It's a "true" home console, looks at least XBO level graphics. But a console you can pick up and take with you and keep playing. It attacks tablets (the #1 gaming platform now) by being a real console instead. It attacks consoles, by being the only console you can pick up and leave with and dock anywhere else that has a dock (and runs on a battery.) I can't pick up my PS4 and take it with me. But I can get switch and get "nearly the same graphics" and be able to just pick up the full power console and go with it. It won't have special appeal to couch gamers that never go anywhere but their gaming room versus any other console. But they're appealing to the fact that "mobile tech" is how MOST people are using tech now (note that you see few desktop PCs for sale at retail, laptops have taken over.) Tech that's leashed to the TV/desk is kind of old school.

I'm not much of a mobile lifestyle person, but even I've gone all laptop/smartphone, and love my 3DS. The idea of picking up my game and wandering even to another room with it is what I hoped the WiiU would deliver, but only half delivered. I think it will appeal to a lot of people that way. The non-XBox/PS4 crowd who don't want to be chained to play AAA games, and the existing XB/PS crowed who wishes they didn't have to be.

My 8-year-old self that wished and wished I could pick up my NES and take it everywhere with me is positively giddy :)

We've been hearing naysayers and doom predictions since the Wii. So what makes this time around any different?

The rumor and speculation as to why it would be cartridges is because we've come to a point where the medium can hold more information than a disc. Which likely means none of this current nonsense of putting in a disc then immediately having to download the rest of the game before playing it.

Will dlc, patches, etc. download to the cart instead of internally, to a card or to a drive? Will the console allow cards and/or drives?

No clue! We'll have to find out next year.

Gyroscope, motion controls, touch capabilities, backwards compatibility?

No clue! We'll have to find out next year.

Keep in mind that the previous and current console generations have tried to get rid of backwards compatibility beforw, yet manage to drag their feet to meet us halfway. Eventually.

Early doom and gloom was expected--is always expected--but it's not like anyone can forecast an entire console's life cycle after watching a three minute Apple-style commercial.

NintenDOOMED since the Wii? Puh-leese, newb. Nintendo's been "doomed" since the NES. :p There's even a fun video of the Good Morning America, somewhere with awesome Wesley Crusher sweaters in the 80's showing the NES for the Holiday buying segment, and citing that critics have pointed out that trying to sell a new video game console after (what we now know as the video game crash) their proven failure was a doomed strategy. Yamauchi was told numerous times he was throwing money away by making the NES. 30+years later, here we are. :)

I would love to see patches download to the carts, that's one thing that hasn't been done yet and would change patching, and even resale in a good way. Makes it easier for those that collect multiple machines in different colors/sizes (c'mon, you know that'll be a thing again), to move the cart from different systems. I do that for 3DS all the time. I have my old XL and my New XL and I move the less graphically impressive one to the older one and/or the one that takes the stylus so I don't scratch up my better screen. Saves are already onboard except Fantasy Life (curse you, Fantasy Life), why not patches?

There are 2 USB ports visible on the left side of the dock. This likely provides storage when docked via an HDD like WiiU. I imagine it also has some form of internal storage whether removable or not. On the main console, I see no reason for it to not accept SD cards since the 3DS did. People sneer at it, but SD cards are still faster than spinning platter HDDs and come in large sizes, and for a portable it's the only solution unless you want big heatsinks for an M2 SSD or something. Still not small enough.

Backward compatibility is problematic due to the architecture switch. That's common for 8th/9th gen platfors (weird, we're talking 9th gen now...) :) PS4 has zero backward compatibility unless you count PS Now. PS Now is....awful, actually. XBOne had none then added support for limited titles. Their "backward compatibility" is almost Virtual Console-esque. Sony went from proprietary to x86 arch. MS went from PPC to x86 arch. Wii/WiiU/GCN were all PPC architecture and Switch is moving to ARM. That's a HUGE architecture shift, but oddly, with the Tegra setup it's easier to port between x86 to ARM than anything else. WiiU compatibility was a guaranteed no-go without doing full ports. Even if the work is simple with good API support, it still needs a new build of the game executable do not be dog-slow and burn the fans at full throttle. 3DS....so the slot isn't compatible...but I could see emulation happening at some point. Lack of a second screen makes that very difficult to be useful though. Unlike WiiU, DS/3DS used its screens.

 

[Aori]

The rumor and speculation as to why it would be cartridges is because we've come to a point where the medium can hold more information than a disc. Which likely means none of this current nonsense of putting in a disc then immediately having to download the rest of the game before playing it.

Will dlc, patches, etc. download to the cart instead of internally, to a card or to a drive? Will the console allow cards and/or drives?

No clue! We'll have to find out next year.

Gyroscope, motion controls, touch capabilities, backwards compatibility?

No clue! We'll have to find out next year.

Keep in mind that the previous and current console generations have tried to get rid of backwards compatibility beforw, yet manage to drag their feet to meet us halfway. Eventually.

Thanks for not lecturing me for hours about how "cartridges are superior to disks" like award did, no offense to award of course- I just didn't really ask for a lecture when I was just stating my opinion on the topic. Really, the cartridges and storage issues were the main things I had an issue with. If I know there's a good solution for these, as well as I know the cartridges are upgraded for even better graphics than disks I may consider the switch a bit more.

Though I still feel like it looks too big to be very portable, and I like to take my gaming systems with me if I can. If it's bigger than the new 3ds i don't really like the thought of it.

Until more info is released I really shouldn't form a full opinion. I just feel like I'm allowed to be a bit skeptical as someone that struggles with work and money and doesn't want to buy a console unless I know it's worth my money.

@Award
I apologize but it's actually not very easy for me to focus on / read walls of text so i really couldn't read half of what you wrote before I spaced out entirely (I apologize, it's my own fault but it's just really hard for me.)- but what I'm getting is you're just always going to say that cartridges are superior to disks. I don't mind that, but I still prefer disks really, I misplace things easy and It's far easier for me to misplace a ds-sized cartridge over a disk. In the end I kinda have my personal reasons to be skeptical as well, and I don't think it'd be fair for Nintendo to disregard the disks people bought in the past / make people rebuy games because "lol **** disks you don't own these games really"

I don't know. I just really was voicing why I was skeptical, and honestly it was primarily since I didn't understand how they could put high def games on a portable device without it eating up all the space on the console. I don't really want a repeat of the wii u where everything has to save to the hard drive as well. It shouldn't matter if I only get a few games, but as I said earlier I won't be happy if it saves to a nigh-unremoveable sd card.

 

[Award]

Thanks for not lecturing me for hours about how "cartridges are superior to disks" like award did, no offense to award of course- I just didn't really ask for a lecture when I was just stating my opinion on the topic. Really, the cartridges and storage issues were the main things I had an issue with. If I know there's a good solution for these, as well as I know the cartridges are upgraded for even better graphics than disks I may consider the switch a bit more.

Though I still feel like it looks too big to be very portable, and I like to take my gaming systems with me if I can. If it's bigger than the new 3ds i don't really like the thought of it.

Until more info is released I really shouldn't form a full opinion. I just feel like I'm allowed to be a bit skeptical as someone that struggles with work and money and doesn't want to buy a console unless I know it's worth my money.

@Award
I apologize but it's actually not very easy for me to focus on / read walls of text so i really couldn't read half of what you wrote before I spaced out entirely (I apologize, it's my own fault but it's just really hard for me.)- but what I'm getting is you're just always going to say that cartridges are superior to disks. I don't mind that, but I still prefer disks really, I misplace things easy and It's far easier for me to misplace a ds-sized cartridge over a disk. In the end I kinda have my personal reasons to be skeptical as well, and I don't think it'd be fair for Nintendo to disregard the disks people bought in the past / make people rebuy games because "lol **** disks you don't own these games really"

I don't know. I just really was voicing why I was skeptical, and honestly it was primarily since I didn't understand how they could put high def games on a portable device without it eating up all the space on the console. I don't really want a repeat of the wii u where everything has to save to the hard drive as well. It shouldn't matter if I only get a few games, but as I said earlier I won't be happy if it saves to a nigh-unremoveable sd card.

Haha, no offense taken, sorry! :)

The TL;DR version is, cartridges are faster, more durable, and eat less power than discs. And don't worry about capacity, they're plenty big, and will easily be much bigger than BD discs during the Switches lifespan. "Graphics quality" = how big the texture files can be to fit the storage. The cards can fit more than the discs technically.

LOSING carts...well that's a different worry. That might be a good reason to go all digital instead of physical! Personally I lose discs non-stop. I end up putting them in the wrong case and never see them again (Ask Ansible, I promised those guys I'd play Smash 4 with them back like 5 months ago....I STILL haven't found my disc! :P )

But having a disc drive wouldn't mean compatibility with WiiU games. The CPU/GPU are a completely different architecture. It wouldn't run on it. or at least not with acceptable performance in (most) cases. It would have to emulate PPC architecture. And emulation takes a LOT of computer power which then couldn't be used to run the game itself.

But your concerns about digital storage in terms of an SD card for downloadables....there's definitely some unknowns there. With physical you won't be installing games locally, so you'll have plenty of space on a one-time-insert SD. But for digital buyers...that's an open question, true enough.

 

[Ansible]

@Kurotsuno, 's quite alright, @Award just has a different, but no less useful, style of conversation and information. Like the difference between one storyteller who will say "cop" while the other will say "policewoman."

Same story, similar imagery, different details.

Yet it's okay to be skeptical, ... just don't become cynical to the point where you're looking so far down you have to look up to see your feet.

And that goes for anything, not just this. =)

 

[Aori]

Yet it's okay to be skeptical, ... just don't become cynical to the point where you're looking so far down you have to look up to see your feet.

Yea, ultimately that's why I haven't completely rejected the idea of buying the console at least.

Haha, no offense taken, sorry! :)

The TL;DR version is, cartridges are faster, more durable, and eat less power than discs. And don't worry about capacity, they're plenty big, and will easily be much bigger than BD discs during the Switches lifespan. "Graphics quality" = how big the texture files can be to fit the storage. The cards can fit more than the discs technically.

LOSING carts...well that's a different worry. That might be a good reason to go all digital instead of physical! Personally I lose discs non-stop. I end up putting them in the wrong case and never see them again (Ask Ansible, I promised those guys I'd play Smash 4 with them back like 5 months ago....I STILL haven't found my disc! :p )

But having a disc drive wouldn't mean compatibility with WiiU games. The CPU/GPU are a completely different architecture. It wouldn't run on it. or at least not with acceptable performance in (most) cases. It would have to emulate PPC architecture. And emulation takes a LOT of computer power which then couldn't be used to run the game itself.

But your concerns about digital storage in terms of an SD card for downloadables....there's definitely some unknowns there. With physical you won't be installing games locally, so you'll have plenty of space on a one-time-insert SD. But for digital buyers...that's an open question, true enough.

Thanks for understanding!
Anyways, yea I suppose that makes sense- I didn't really know cartridges were bigger than disks because they're so small... then again it's starting to seem that smaller things are coming with more space than "bigger things" nowadays, so with that in mind this doesn't seem as impossible anymore.

I really am curious about how they're going to manage digital downloads.
I'm also curious- Maybe they'll give compatible versions of owned games to people that own the wii U version if there is a remake. Maybe not. Who knows.

 

[Flareth]

Yooo, if it isn't Award! Glad to have you back, man!

Switch is an awesome name. Usually nintendo has cool codenames (revolution, cafe) and then blows it on the product "wii, wiiu". This time we got a product name that sounds like the codename. Sure, NX was cooler. But switch is good. Imagine if the codename was Switch and the product name was revealed to be "Together Play" or something :p "Play some switch" sounds good. "watching a Switch Twitch' could become a thing :p

Eh, that's true. Hell, even the Gamecube's a bit lamer than the Dolphin, even if makes more technical sense. But honestly, if I were them and had to stick with the name I'd try to stylize it somewhat, just to make it not seem generic. (Swytch? Swhich? Swiitch? Actually that last one's even worse...)

Splatoon, without a gamepad and map and touch screen can't play exactly right. The current game REQUIRES the screen to really work (if you don't know the map status you're in trouble - and SJ is an important mechanic along with the map.) So it can't be just a straight port. Gameplay would need to be reworked and possibly some map redesign for visibility.

I'm sure I've talked about this before, but they could just shunt the map off to one of the screen's lower corners and call it a day. Super Jumping would admittedly be a bit tougher to map out without the mythical scroll buttons (which the controllers seem to lack) to streamline the process. But then again, it's such a daft mechanic that I wouldn't mind if they ditched it.
More concerning for me is that there's no word on if there's gyroscopic controls planned for the system. Those are more essential to playing Splatoon I feel, and unless they're added some aim assist to compensate, the lack of motion is going to make using anything but Aerosprays and Splooshes such a pain to aim with.

We've been hearing naysayers and doom predictions since the Wii. So what makes this time around any different?

Early doom and gloom was expected--is always expected--but it's not like anyone can forecast an entire console's life cycle after watching a three minute Apple-style commercial.

I'm now obligated to re-present this:

To which we can add making us wait a year & a half for the official Switch reveal. XÞ

Really, so long as they advertise the damn thing (and price it properly), people will come.
I'm still awaiting the day someone says the PS4.5 can do everything the Switch can but in 4K.

I'm also curious- Maybe they'll give compatible versions of owned games to people that own the wii U version if there is a remake. Maybe not. Who knows.

That's a good point. I really doubt they'd be so generous as to offer a discount on Wii U ports for anyone who owns the Wii U originals (because why would they even bother with Breath of the Wild for Wii U in that case?), but damn it if it wouldn't be a neat option in mine eyes.

 

[Ulk]

What I'm fearing is that people will find the NS too similar to the Wii U and that this will cause another failure. I mean let's face it, people have one standard for Nintendo consoles and a different one for Playstation or Xbox. Playstation can practically afford to do nothing but enhance the graphics and people will gladly accept anything as a new console. Nintendo has to do far more than that. I think the Wii U was less derived from the Wii than the PS4 was from the PS3, yet the similarity is what cost the Wii U its head. I'm guessing the reason for that is that Nintendo was always the most innovative and diverse with regard to their consoles. Now that they've made the mistake of having a too similar console to their previous one (although I honestly believe the Wii U was quite different), they have to get away from the Wii U as far as possible with the NS. The use of the tablet alone already makes so many people call it just a new version of the Wii U, despite the NS tablet use not being comparable to the Gamepad.

Other companies can afford to just slightly enhance and repackage the old product. Nintendo is expected to take massive steps, however.