Nintendo Switch Talk Thread

[SyMag]

(Edit: Sometimes I really hate the double post policy:( This post didn't need to be a monolithic text wall and was 3 replies to 3 conversations...but I had to do it as one. sorry everyone!)

It's all good, just gimme like 40 years to read it all and I'll get back to you XD

 

[Aori]

Oh it better have motion controls (actually Ubisoft confirmed, accidentally, it does in the Just Dance e3 announcement: "Releasing on all motion control platforms including Nintendo Wii, WiiU Oct 2016, and NX in 2017." Splatoon has spoiled me in the extreme with those motion controls. You don't realize how much you use them until the other day I picked up Deus Ex to show someone, and felt like I was fighting the game. I could hardly control it. I was playing with Mirror's Edge: Catalyst on PS4 the other day and felt like throwing the controller across the room. It's a game based on fluid motion, like Splatoon, and the controls are anything but fluid. After Splatoon's motion controls, I'm afraid I might not even be able to play first person and close-camera 3rd person games without them anymore! :( I'm ruined! :p Sadly Nintendo redefined the console shooter's controls and the industry didn't even pay attention.

Yeaaah.... I don't really use motion controls because they're not that fun for me, so I guess I can't relate to this. Sorry!

 

[Award]

Yeaaah.... I don't really use motion controls because they're not that fun for me, so I guess I can't relate to this. Sorry!

There's definitely people who don't like them on this forum as well, so you're not alone. But it would be a big step back overall if they were to not include them on the NX. Once you DO get used to them, you feel like you've gone back 20 years in time when you try to play a 1st or 3rd person shooter that does not have them. They really make precise aiming a lot more smooth and natural than trying to zero in with analog sticks! I haven't played the much derided Starfox Zero yet, and I heard that might be a lot more heavy handed on the motion, but Splatoon is really the perfect balance where it compliments the stick controls to the point that I don't even notice how much I'm fine tuning with motion controls (charger/bamboozler/sploosh main here!) until I sat down to play Mirrors Edge and Deus Ex: Human Revolution and felt like "OMG, how am I supposed to even look where I'm going and why is it so choppy?" :P I went looking for the controller settings before it dawned on me that the problem wasn't the controls, it's just that I got used to Splatoon's smooth controls!

Please,please, NX have motion controls! :)

 

[SpiralRhapsody]

I'll just be that annoying person who gets emotionally out of control and vents on a random forum such as this one about how the NX should have a new F-Zero or else I'll do -blank irrational action-. Jabbing at YouTube comments aside, yeah, I would really appreciate if the NX takes the time to add more games to Nintendo's pantheon of universes. They could honestly get away with making Captain Toad-levels of depth-sequels to smaller games like Ice Climber, Mach Rider, Wave Race, Excitebike, Battalion Wars, etc. Just give us a wider range of games.

There's definitely people who don't like them on this forum as well, so you're not alone. But it would be a big step back overall if they were to not include them on the NX. Once you DO get used to them, you feel like you've gone back 20 years in time when you try to play a 1st or 3rd person shooter that does not have them. They really make precise aiming a lot more smooth and natural than trying to zero in with analog sticks! I haven't played the much derided Starfox Zero yet, and I heard that might be a lot more heavy handed on the motion, but Splatoon is really the perfect balance where it compliments the stick controls to the point that I don't even notice how much I'm fine tuning with motion controls (charger/bamboozler/sploosh main here!) until I sat down to play Mirrors Edge and Deus Ex: Human Revolution and felt like "OMG, how am I supposed to even look where I'm going and why is it so choppy?" :p I went looking for the controller settings before it dawned on me that the problem wasn't the controls, it's just that I got used to Splatoon's smooth controls!

Please,please, NX have motion controls! :)

I know this thread is at least a week old, so my bad for the reply, but as someone who has played Star Fox Zero extensively, the motion controls are weird at first but then I got over them completely. Honestly, I have a theory that anyone hating the motion controls is just salty from the gigarilla and/or aquarosa boss fights (which you can fight within an hour of playtime since the game is short), as those bosses are demanding of quick movement and since this game is "different" it's easy to just say the controls are flat-out awful. I can't say the controls are PERFECT and that everyone will like them no matter what, but at least to me it just felt like getting used to any other game with a unique control scheme, with or without motion controls.

That being said, I'm also freaking weird, and I'm more salty at Pikmin 3 while everyone that hates Star Fox Zero seems to be loving Pikmin 3's controls, so -shrug-

Also, yeah, I do want motion controls to be a thing in the NX. Different ways to play = fun for me. But I'm not everyone and I respect the argument of "what was wrong with this in the first place -holds up regular controller-"

 

[Anaru]

I'm going to get it as it comes out, even though the only game I currently want for it is Zelda, and the Zelda is on the WiiU, too. But I'm sure there will be other games I'll want for it, so I feel like I should probably just get it, unlike the WiiU, which I waited 2 years to get, and then had to buy a bunch of games for it at once instead of over time. It's kind of funny that the main reason I even got the WiiU was just to play the Zelda once it finally came out, and now I won't even be doing that.

 

[Award]

I know this thread is at least a week old, so my bad for the reply, but as someone who has played Star Fox Zero extensively, the motion controls are weird at first but then I got over them completely. Honestly, I have a theory that anyone hating the motion controls is just salty from the gigarilla and/or aquarosa boss fights (which you can fight within an hour of playtime since the game is short), as those bosses are demanding of quick movement and since this game is "different" it's easy to just say the controls are flat-out awful. I can't say the controls are PERFECT and that everyone will like them no matter what, but at least to me it just felt like getting used to any other game with a unique control scheme, with or without motion controls.

That being said, I'm also freaking weird, and I'm more salty at Pikmin 3 while everyone that hates Star Fox Zero seems to be loving Pikmin 3's controls, so -shrug-

Also, yeah, I do want motion controls to be a thing in the NX. Different ways to play = fun for me. But I'm not everyone and I respect the argument of "what was wrong with this in the first place -holds up regular controller-"

I'm glad to hear that about the SF:0 controls. I still haven't opened my copy, saving it for when I finally kick the Splatoon habit :P But I love space fighter games starting with the SNES SF, so I was nervous about all the salt out there for it.

I think "new ways to play" controls get a bad rep not because they replace tradition but because Nintendo has a habit of forcing those controls where they don't belong to prove they should exist from a marketing/business perspective. Metroid Prime on Wii could have been cool, but the Wiimote just wasn't made for that and it limited how you could play it...you couldn't sit at a desk and play for example. Zelda TP was dreadful with the waggle controlls on Wii, and DKCR played better on 3DS than Wii with the waggling stripped from it. Not all games needed or should have had motion controls on Wii. Skyward Sword however was built around the idea and benefited. As did Wii Sports. The controls weren't annoying like in TP.

Similarly, they did so much forcing of gamepad use in WiiU at times and it never made sense. It made it seem like a gimmick and not a new way to play. Yet Splatoon proved that motion controls are basically the ONLY way to effectively play a shooter! It didn't force it down our throats, didn't even require it, but when you get used to them you realize it gives you far more control, and thus makes you far more competitive. Mario Maker would simply be impossible without it (or at least absurdly clunky. Even Mario Paint SNES had the Nintendo Mouse for that reason!)

Hopefully they've learned to make good controls without gimmicks. If the NEWEST NX rumors are true about the screen with detachable controllers, it could get interesting. They could actually sell alternate controllers for certain games. It's like Amiibo but with purpose! (Or like DK Bongos but not awful!) I think we're at a control method standstill other than refinements of existing things until VR body sensors are a thing.

I'm going to get it as it comes out, even though the only game I currently want for it is Zelda, and the Zelda is on the WiiU, too. But I'm sure there will be other games I'll want for it, so I feel like I should probably just get it, unlike the WiiU, which I waited 2 years to get, and then had to buy a bunch of games for it at once instead of over time. It's kind of funny that the main reason I even got the WiiU was just to play the Zelda once it finally came out, and now I won't even be doing that.

Oh, admit it, if Zelda was already out, you'd go home, intend to go play some Zelda, see some Squidboards people online, and message them "wanna' squad?" instead :P

Hiroshi Yamauchi once said "A Nintendo (Entertainment System) is just a box to play Mario on."

A WiiU is just a box to play Splatoon on. :)

I have my pile of unopened games...and Splatoon runs and runs....

 

[Anaru]

Oh, admit it, if Zelda was already out, you'd go home, intend to go play some Zelda, see some Squidboards people online, and message them "wanna' squad?" instead :p

I've actually never done that, the only times I've played against other people from SB were for trading gear, which I've done at most thrice.
Although, I apparently got lucky and got into a match with someone from here during a Splatfest once.

 

[Flareth]

Y'all might know this already, but Project Sonic 2017 looks to be confirmed for an NX release, bringing the total of known games to 3. I haven't looked into this detachable controller thing though. What the hell is that, and how's it supposed to work?

 

[Aori]

Hopefully they've learned to make good controls without gimmicks. If the NEWEST NX rumors are true about the screen with detachable controllers, it could get interesting. They could actually sell alternate controllers for certain games.

That sounds.... weird. It reminds me of those old knockoff consoles, idk. Either that or it reminds me of those weird "wheel" remotes for the wii that never really worked.

 

[Award]

Y'all might know this already, but Project Sonic 2017 looks to be confirmed for an NX release, bringing the total of known games to 3. I haven't looked into this detachable controller thing though. What the hell is that, and how's it supposed to work?

I think it's Eurogamer that put together the article....it's still pure rumor, nothing definitive leaked from Nintendo, but they put it together from multiple sources etc. It's no guarantee this is the real NX, but it's the first stab a 1st tier publication has publicly made based on what they feel are solid enough rumors to put it out there. Could be all wrong still, but at least it's a more "dependable" 'leak' than others.

If so, much of my theories above would seem to be corroborated. If so, it's a handheld through and through, but a powerful one. A screen, not sure what size, with the controller halves attached to either side to play with as a portable. Possibly with a kickstand to stand the screen up on its own. The controller halves pop off and either snap together into a single controller or can be used as two controllers (a.k.a. 2 player "couch coop" anywhere with one unit.) It would have a docking cradle that's HDMI connected to the TV and you just pop off the controllers and play like a console. The rumors suggest it's nVidia Tegra X powered, which confirms an earlier rumor that nVidia was desperate and their console division was basically told by management that after losing MS and Sony contracts, and Shield's failure, to either get a new contract with one of the 3 or shut down and according to rumors they were desperate enough to pretty much give away the store, even if they sold at a LOSS to keep the division active on the books. (I.E. basically paying Nintendo to take the chips.) Seems like a position Nintendo would like and help them sell a powerful system at a low price if the SoC was not just free, but profitable to use.

If so it would be a true hybrid, play like a GameCube, or play like a 3DS. It would be what Vita claimed to be but wasn't. And graphics wise, if it uses Tegra X1 it would be probably about as powerful as WiiU. It wouldn't be busting the PS4 any time soon, but a WiiU you can stick in your pocket or bag and play sitting in the middle of the wilderness is pretty darn amazing. If it uses the Tegra X2, it would actually be somewhere between WiiU and PS4...edging much closer to PS4. Again, no competitor to Scorpio or PS4 Neo, but a PS4 that you can stick in your pocket.....Sony can't touch that. Rumor is that dev kits are running X1 but have cooling fans on them (meaning it's overclocked and running too hot.) which implies production would be running an X2 to run without fans...though possible an underclocked X2 to keep it cooler and thus be more WiiU power than PS4 power. Tegra is built for tablets, and is used for Shield, for reference.

So largely what was already theorized, but with more deets on Tegra use (not x86, don't expect Fallout ports...) and the "Nintendo Gimmick" of the detachable, swappable, controllers which seems very plausible. Also meaning custom controllers per game (either visually or with special buttons) would be possible for sale (ka-ching! Sounds like Nintendo!)

 

[Flareth]

Ahuh. That's very strange, and yet I can kinda picture it. If they're going for portable then it'd probably need to be smaller than a GamePad yet larger than your average iPhone... maybe around the size of a Note or larger? I imagine that there'd be a separate power mode for portable and TV play; portable turns down the specs but keeps the battery from going out too quickly, TV mode requires a power brick to run but delivers on the graphic front.

I have my reservations about detachable/custom controllers though. I mean, custom controllers are cool on paper, yet I can't help but feel that they'd wind up being clunky and woefully underused. (A bit like the Genesis's addons, methinks.) Besides, the two halves combining to form a single, screenless controller—how is that even possible? I can't see it working without some sort of technical wizardry.
This isn't to say that I don't see it at all, of course. Indeed, have the HDMI and power brick ports on either side of the tablet, and have the controller connections on either side of those... although that also comes at the cost of playing it while it's charging, which is a bit of a minus for me. Unless the charger port and power brick port aren't one and the same, which seems a bit counter-intuitive...
Again, just goes to show how much I know about electronics. XÞ

Now I may have said this before, but I'm not too familiar with graphics chips. Is the X2 supposed to be naturally cooler than the X1? And how does it compare with whatever everybody else uses?

 

[Award]

Ahuh. That's very strange, and yet I can kinda picture it. If they're going for portable then it'd probably need to be smaller than a GamePad yet larger than your average iPhone... maybe around the size of a Note or larger? I imagine that there'd be a separate power mode for portable and TV play; portable turns down the specs but keeps the battery from going out too quickly, TV mode requires a power brick to run but delivers on the graphic front.

I have my reservations about detachable/custom controllers though. I mean, custom controllers are cool on paper, yet I can't help but feel that they'd wind up being clunky and woefully underused. (A bit like the Genesis's addons, methinks.) Besides, the two halves combining to form a single, screenless controller—how is that even possible? I can't see it working without some sort of technical wizardry.
This isn't to say that I don't see it at all, of course. Indeed, have the HDMI and power brick ports on either side of the tablet, and have the controller connections on either side of those... although that also comes at the cost of playing it while it's charging, which is a bit of a minus for me. Unless the charger port and power brick port aren't one and the same, which seems a bit counter-intuitive...
Again, just goes to show how much I know about electronics. XÞ

Now I may have said this before, but I'm not too familiar with graphics chips. Is the X2 supposed to be naturally cooler than the X1? And how does it compare with whatever everybody else uses?

"strange" in a Nintendo-like way. Which sounds cool :) The rumor places it at tablet size, maybe a 7" tablet. So gamepad sized screen maybe, or larger. It wouldn't be as pocketable as a 3DS but would be bag-able if so. Note would be too small IMO. They want to provide something different than phones provide, to compete with the "core game" market. Phones are not core game for the mainstream but tablets are seen as "gaming devices." Also if it's about putting living room games on a handheld in high res, they can't repeat Vita's mistake with Remote Play. Vita is a lovely unit, but game UI's designed for a 720p screen are basically unreadable on it, it's too small. That's where Remote Play breaks down (that and the 20FPS or so.) So it would need to be a screen designed to be read with high density UIs. I'm thinking tablet.

And, yes, two power profiles would be likely. I imagine handheld mode would target a lower render resolution (maybe, maybe not lower fps) and just upscale to the display. That would save a lot of rendering power not needed for the smaller screen. It could also disable some lighting effects etc (Nintendo hardware tends to have a lot of "free" shaders in hardware so not sure how much they'd scale that down. Basically the same as a PC game with "low, medium, high, eXtrEmE SLI" gfx options. People think of Tegra as a "mobile" processor, and it is, but it's a power hungry one with more performance than phone processors. It's designed for tablets and embedded devices wtih a larger power reserve. Tegra was awesome back in the early Android days but was buggy. the Tegra "X" line is the comeback after it faded into obscurity. No harm for TV mode to need the power brick as it's also the charging cradle, so like the original 3DS, the dock cradle is where you put it when not in use anyway :)

Genesis addons were clunky, expensive, and had little use by the system. Nintendo on the other hand sells accessories by the dozen. Custom color GCN controllers, DK bongos, custom color CONSOLES, custom 3DS faceplates. Nintendo gets away with this stuff where any other company couldn't. They'll have custom smash controllers at a minimum. And everyone on this forum will buy them. :P Not sure if they'll really sell custom ones, but if they're cheap enough, why not? Custom controllers is an existing business for Nintendo just selling fan favorite color scheme and patterns.

I don't think it's so much technical wizardry...keep in mind it would be two Bluetooth controllers, like the gamepad, wiimote, DualShock, and XB controllers. No wiring or hard electrical contacts required. Just two plastic shells designed to attach while being ergonomic to hold. Like gluing 2 wiimotes together to form something resembling a real controller :P HDMI and power could be a single proprietary dock port (remember all the dock ports on the gamepad that never ended up used for anything?) And the controller needs no electrical connection (wireless like the last 2 gens) so it just needs a latch/lock to hold it on and nothing else.

That's a good point about playing it while charging. Would they have a non-dock charger? Interestnig question. No evidence either way even in the rumors so far. There's a fair chance it will have a 3DS charging port on it somewhere. IT's a "standard" charger format for them these days. Same as DS. Wonder if that's enough power though? new chips get MORE not LESS power efficient though...


Tegra X is a radically different architecture than PS4/XBone. It's an SoC (CPU, GPU, controller on one die. WiiU uses an SoC, (System on a Chip) as well. But Tegra X1 is ARM a Texas Instruments designed RISC format (PPC, what WiiU uses is an IBM RISC implementation mostly used in blade servers these days). Arm was designed from the ground up to be power efficient for embedded and mobile solutions. Palm Pilots and modern smartphones are often ARM based. PS4 and XBOne however went with x86, the standard Intel PC architecture. A "low power" x86 CPU and a separate GPU. They run hot. They're power hungry. They're not exactly Alienware PC's, they're more purpose built, but compared to something like Tegra they burn hot and eat electricity. They can never be made mobile. It's meant to brute force its way through. (Hold your hand in the back of a PS4....it feels like a vacuum exhaust.) A handheld must remain physicall cool to the touch!

Tegra X1 is a little less powerful than a WiiU. it uses a LOT less power, but isn't quite as powerful. It's closer to an XBox 360. Granted, a pocket 360 is still awesome. Still for a tablet processor it's quite impressive. The Shield runs the X1, and still tends to win many benchmarks over newer chips in the same class. The shield was basically a $900 toy to convince companies like Nintendo that Nvidia can work miracles in their products. Tegra X2 is not out yet, and is possibly the reason for the delays of NX. X2 runs ARM64, an updated ARM architecture that is supposedly easy to port x86 projects to...I.E. EA, Activision, Ubi, et all would have an easier time porting to Nintendo, but not as easy as PC to PS4. It's substantially more powerful than X1, by the specs, slightly below a PS4, and roughly equal to XBox One. Running on a battery and producing little heat.... The VCR can't do that.

It won't compete with Scorpio on power, or even close. But MS already said that all Scorpio games will run on One. So it'll just be one model for basic play and one for xtreme grafix. Nintendo doesn't need to compete with the xtreme gfx model. That's not their audience anyway. But they can take those same xbone games and make them portable.....there's a cross platform differentiation!

In terms of X1 vs X2 coolness, while I expect X2 does have more power efficiency, my guess is the dev kits running X1s are running them very overclocked to yield closer (but still inferior) results to the final production build, thus they're burning up and need cooling. The production X2 would be running normal clock or even underclocked to keep them cool and extend battery life.

 

[Ansible]

I've come across so much speculation and rumor, I don't know what's confirmed anymore! T_T

So I've just gven up and opted for the wait and see approach.

My opinions on hardware and software so far is just a candyland collection of hopes and dreams: no region locking in the slightest, backwards compatibility, motion controls, touch screen, Splatoon sequel, new Animal Crossing, innovative Layton series and Scribblenauts sequels, licensed and non-licensed Art Academy releases, etc.

But I am extremely curious what will become of user account system, friends list, player communication, miis, and the miiverse going forward. Coming from a DS/3DS environment I developed dismal opinion of it--we're such cast offs--and more so after buying a WiiU.

 

[Award]

I've come across so much speculation and rumor, I don't know what's confirmed anymore! T_T

So I've just gven up and opted for the wait and see approach.

My opinions on hardware and software so far is just a candyland collection of hopes and dreams: no region locking in the slightest, backwards compatibility, motion controls, touch screen, Splatoon sequel, new Animal Crossing, innovative Layton series and Scribblenauts sequels, licensed and non-licensed Art Academy releases, etc.

But I am extremely curious what will become of user account system, friends list, player communication, miis, and the miiverse going forward. Coming from a DS/3DS environment I developed dismal opinion of it--we're such cast offs--and more so after buying a WiiU.

Nothing is confirmed, but the latest "rumors" seem to be coming through more reliable sources with some more weight behind the business side (i.e. hardware partners talking due to financial projection statements etc, such as nVidia.) I.E. Nobody's saying that NX is Tegra based or a handheld officially, yet nVidia's expecting a large financial bump from a mass production of Tegra chips for an unnamed major console partner. Well, there's only one major console mfr producing a console this year that's not committed to an AMD based x86 architecture....not too much logic leaping required, etc. :) At this stage of the game an unveiling in the next 8-10 weeks is likely. The goal is to stall out copycats beyond their production window.

Region locking....not optimistic. Iwata was a proponent for that, the board was not, and Iwata's gone. The board will have their way.
Motion is confirmed (Ubisoft's Just Dance reveal at E3 confirmed it's a 'motion control platform'.) Could just mean Wiimote compatibility tho.
Touch screen...the patents suggest it is. However that would mean only in handheld mode, not in TV mode.
Splatoon is a given for a wildly successful new IP.
a new Animal Crossing...who knows. Smartphone may get that series. In fairness the gameplay fits it.
Layton is up to Level 5 and Level 5 shoved their heads up their sphincters in the past 2 years. 3DS is getting the next layton (and smartphone) so...who knows.
Scribblenauts...Warner's confirmed their partnership for NX, so it's certainly possible.
Art Academy depends on touch screen. Boy that would suck if that series was suspended.

User account will surely be tied to the My Nintendo accounts. They've made that pretty clear. How they handle eshop though...we'll see.

 

[Flareth]

The rumor places it at tablet size, maybe a 7" tablet. So gamepad sized screen maybe, or larger. It wouldn't be as pocketable as a 3DS but would be bag-able if so. Note would be too small IMO. They want to provide something different than phones provide, to compete with the "core game" market. Phones are not core game for the mainstream but tablets are seen as "gaming devices." Also if it's about putting living room games on a handheld in high res, they can't repeat Vita's mistake with Remote Play. Vita is a lovely unit, but game UI's designed for a 720p screen are basically unreadable on it, it's too small. That's where Remote Play breaks down (that and the 20FPS or so.) So it would need to be a screen designed to be read with high density UIs. I'm thinking tablet.

Oi, I missed that part. Then I'd say GamePad/N3DSXL size is the bare minimum for it; comparing them to my iPad Air, I'd say somewhere in between the two is ideal.
...wait a minute, wasn't that the whole point of the GamePad in the first place, to provide "core gaming" on a kind of tablet? So either this is history repeating itself, or the GamePad was just testing the waters for this idea (and thus your theory about the U being a transition console holds that much more weight).

I don't think it's so much technical wizardry...keep in mind it would be two Bluetooth controllers, like the gamepad, wiimote, DualShock, and XB controllers. No wiring or hard electrical contacts required. Just two plastic shells designed to attach while being ergonomic to hold. Like gluing 2 wiimotes together to form something resembling a real controller :p HDMI and power could be a single proprietary dock port (remember all the dock ports on the gamepad that never ended up used for anything?) And the controller needs no electrical connection (wireless like the last 2 gens) so it just needs a latch/lock to hold it on and nothing else.

Huh, that's a lot less convoluted than I thought. Still, there's the issue of how the whole controller is powered when they're not connected to the handheld. Each half needing its own battery would be a nightmare (hyperbole intended), but having them connect to a separate power pak sounds a bit clunky.

That's a good point about playing it while charging. Would they have a non-dock charger? Interestnig question. No evidence either way even in the rumors so far. There's a fair chance it will have a 3DS charging port on it somewhere. IT's a "standard" charger format for them these days. Same as DS. Wonder if that's enough power though? new chips get MORE not LESS power efficient though...

I dunno, I could see it needing the GamePad's charger should the battery necessitate it, even if it's not the most portable. Then again, if they're really going for a mobile format they could make it compatible with Android chargers. (Just don't be idiots and make us buy the charger separately again, Nintendo. That was lame.)

Tegra X is a radically different architecture than PS4/XBone. It's an SoC (CPU, GPU, controller on one die. WiiU uses an SoC, (System on a Chip) as well. But Tegra X1 is ARM a Texas Instruments designed RISC format (PPC, what WiiU uses is an IBM RISC implementation mostly used in blade servers these days). Arm was designed from the ground up to be power efficient for embedded and mobile solutions. Palm Pilots and modern smartphones are often ARM based. PS4 and XBOne however went with x86, the standard Intel PC architecture. A "low power" x86 CPU and a separate GPU. They run hot. They're power hungry. They're not exactly Alienware PC's, they're more purpose built, but compared to something like Tegra they burn hot and eat electricity. They can never be made mobile. It's meant to brute force its way through. (Hold your hand in the back of a PS4....it feels like a vacuum exhaust.) A handheld must remain physicall cool to the touch!

Tegra X1 is a little less powerful than a WiiU. it uses a LOT less power, but isn't quite as powerful. It's closer to an XBox 360. Granted, a pocket 360 is still awesome. Still for a tablet processor it's quite impressive. The Shield runs the X1, and still tends to win many benchmarks over newer chips in the same class. The shield was basically a $900 toy to convince companies like Nintendo that Nvidia can work miracles in their products. Tegra X2 is not out yet, and is possibly the reason for the delays of NX. X2 runs ARM64, an updated ARM architecture that is supposedly easy to port x86 projects to...I.E. EA, Activision, Ubi, et all would have an easier time porting to Nintendo, but not as easy as PC to PS4. It's substantially more powerful than X1, by the specs, slightly below a PS4, and roughly equal to XBox One. Running on a battery and producing little heat.... The VCR can't do that.

It won't compete with Scorpio on power, or even close. But MS already said that all Scorpio games will run on One. So it'll just be one model for basic play and one for xtreme grafix. Nintendo doesn't need to compete with the xtreme gfx model. That's not their audience anyway. But they can take those same xbone games and make them portable.....there's a cross platform differentiation!

What I'm getting from all this is that they're not exactly sacrificing power or specs or anything, they're just running with a format that's better suited to what the NX needs to be. A smart decision, I would say, even if it does little to quell the concerns of 3rd-party devs. But I don't believe that was ever gonna go away.

In terms of X1 vs X2 coolness, while I expect X2 does have more power efficiency, my guess is the dev kits running X1s are running them very overclocked to yield closer (but still inferior) results to the final production build, thus they're burning up and need cooling. The production X2 would be running normal clock or even underclocked to keep them cool and extend battery life.

That's a good thing, right? If they have to push the old technology to the max in order to get slightly comparable results, that should speak for what the X2 is capable of. I'd assume underclocking would be required for handheld mode, but then would it be possible to get it back to normal speeds for TV mode? (That's assuming that under-overclocking does anything to the system's performance or visuals; I'm not too concerned about the latter, but I'd be annoyed with having to put up with a sluggish system.)

 

[SpiralRhapsody]

Man, all my feelings towards a new Smash on the NX have transformed from "YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH" to ".... how I don't even".

As someone really into fighting games, it does pain me to realize Nintendo's strides towards creating unique console experiences directly counteracts any possibility of other fighting games arriving to their systems. It really, really drives me nuts, having to always get both a Nintendo console and either a Sony or Microsoft console, whichever has more fighters.

 

[Award]

Oi, I missed that part. Then I'd say GamePad/N3DSXL size is the bare minimum for it; comparing them to my iPad Air, I'd say somewhere in between the two is ideal.
...wait a minute, wasn't that the whole point of the GamePad in the first place, to provide "core gaming" on a kind of tablet? So either this is history repeating itself, or the GamePad was just testing the waters for this idea (and thus your theory about the U being a transition console holds that much more weight).

They can go bigger than 3DS XL since it's thinner without the clamshell. They'd have to without the extra screen real estate of 2 screens.

When the "Project Cafe" (WiiU's Codename pre-announce) was first leaked in rumors, and then announced, I pretty much knew what NX would be before we knew there was an "NX" beyond Miyamoto commenting that "they're always working on the next console." You're right, WiiU was the idea of putting core gaming on a kind of tablet, but in such a limited way because they didn't think the tablet craze was going to take off like it did. They thought it was a revolution "Wow it's like a handheld computer!" Instead Apple beat them to market with a even slicker tablet, and then the me-too's flooded the market with tablets that were truly stand-alone.

I think Nintendo was partly caught off guard to a degree, eating more sales than they expected to lose, but looking at the timing, etc, I really do think my original idea about WiiU as a transition console is correct. It seemed that way even at launch - launching without a complete OS or anything. Showing the Gamepad without showing a console, showing it flatter, with Circle Pads instead of sticks. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if WiiU was originally supposed to be what NX is turning out to be but the tech just wasn't there to do it at the time so they quick retrofitted a console around it when it became clear that a stand-alone portable dockable console wasn't getting to market before the Wii 1 life ended and it was a great way to get us to pay for the R&D twice. Looking in hind-sight, the release window, the stalling for NX release, the "delaying it" to handhelds usual launch cycle, winding down WiiU to coincide with 3DS's pattern. And never forgetting the building of the unified hardware building right as WiiU launched.

Iwata was a slick one... :D

Huh, that's a lot less convoluted than I thought. Still, there's the issue of how the whole controller is powered when they're not connected to the handheld. Each half needing its own battery would be a nightmare (hyperbole intended), but having them connect to a separate power pak sounds a bit clunky.

Hmm, good point. If that part of the rumor is true, both WILL need their own battery, because the one rumored idea is you can detach them for local co-op anywhere. P1, P2 each get a (wireless) controller, and the screen has a kickstand like a tablet. Couch-coop in the park. So given that, you're right they'd need an electrical connection to the main unit to CHARGE when in the dock (or separate docking pins for the controller halves.) but it wouldn't need a connection to be stable for play. And looking at the infinite battery life of the Pro Controller, keeping them charged even with a dodgy connection wouldn't be problematic. I can use that thing every day for months and never charge it and it weighs next to nothing. Still it would be easy enough to have a charging connector on either side of the screen in the cradle, OR a really rugged power link to the main unit. It's just dipole power, no grounding path needed. Make the locking latches metal, and there's your pickup. Low voltage power delivery is tons easier than signal wires.

I dunno, I could see it needing the GamePad's charger should the battery necessitate it, even if it's not the most portable. Then again, if they're really going for a mobile format they could make it compatible with Android chargers. (Just don't be idiots and make us buy the charger separately again, Nintendo. That was lame.)

But it's Nintendo, surely they're famous for long battery life on portable devices with LCD screens....hahaha..haha...ha.....oh :(

I don't think there's much room for Android chargers. Besides what's an Android charger? My Samsung has a proprietary thing, some just use USB, etc. But this is Tegra, think tablet, not phone. Every Android tablet I've seen including other Tegra ones all have barrel-pin power bricks like a normal laptop. USB just doesn't deliver the current for those huge huge capacity batteries. Not proprietary technically, you can get properly sized pins on universal power bricks that will work at Rat Shack, but those suck, burn hot, and aren't really "universal".

So I imagine proprietary. I think there might be two bundles (at least in Japan, maybe/maybe-not here) a "home dock kit" and a "basic" kit. Basic comes with just the handheld as a handheld and probably no charger (buy your own!) and "home dock kit" costs $50-100 more and includes the dock, charger, cables etc. If it's a portable it's silly to force the home dock, especially in the Japan market where portable dominates 5:1.

What I'm getting from all this is that they're not exactly sacrificing power or specs or anything, they're just running with a format that's better suited to what the NX needs to be. A smart decision, I would say, even if it does little to quell the concerns of 3rd-party devs. But I don't believe that was ever gonna go away.

Exactly! Compared to what some fans one "Build a super powered console, THAT will bring the 3rd parties back like the NES glory days!" it's sacrificing power. With PS4 Neo and XB Scorpio looming, they're targeting just BELOW the current gen PS4 threshold. That's a sacrifice in specs compared to power guzzling mid-end PCs from MS/Sony. But they'd be pushing the absolute bleeding edge of portable tech in a way Nintendo hasn't pushed tech since 1996.

I think some 3rd parties would be on board in order to try to tap the portable market if they have a device that could do it (and x86->ARM64 is a fairly easy port....to a degree.) But the fans that want a super-power console from N, miss the point. People that want EA games already like XB/Sony/PC, they're not going to change, they have their brand. Nintendo would be throwing money trying to steal customers that are already happy. More, 3rd parties use hardware as an excuse but ultimately they don't work with Nintendo because they don't WANT to work with Nintendo. Sony and MS are not really software publishers. They have aa few exclusives to pull the platform, but they're not the spotlight on their platforms. Nintendo is the only publisher bigger and more influential than themselves as far as major publishers are concerned. Why would they HELP their stronger competitor? Nintendo's the only platform holder directly competing AGAINST its own 3rd party publishers. THAT is their problem with 3rd party. That won't be solved by any hardware solution.

Thus any publisher that compets AGAINST them (EA, Acti etc) will have strained relations. Can't ignore them, don't want to work with them. Ubi has good relations because it's a privately owned (majority) company (for now) the owners of which like Nintendo and have a good history. But N's 3rd parties are mostly symbiotic. Publishers like Atlus unable to stand on their own so they seek symbiotic support from bigger partners instead of playing direct competitor.

A super powered console wouldn't be much more likely to get Fallout than an NX :)

That's a good thing, right? If they have to push the old technology to the max in order to get slightly comparable results, that should speak for what the X2 is capable of. I'd assume underclocking would be required for handheld mode, but then would it be possible to get it back to normal speeds for TV mode? (That's assuming that under-overclocking does anything to the system's performance or visuals; I'm not too concerned about the latter, but I'd be annoyed with having to put up with a sluggish system.)

Yep, it's definitely scalable, as all modern chips are. Even when power management isn't a concern, thermal management is. Mobile chips are VERY scalable and could easily throttle down for handheld mode, and it needs to run lower res probably too. There's also the modular computing patent... the dock can't increase the GPU for polygons and shaders, but it could add a CPU (for more background tasks) and memory capacity (for higher res textures when on the dock, etc.) Not sure they're doing that but the patent was renewed....

Man, all my feelings towards a new Smash on the NX have transformed from "YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH" to ".... how I don't even".

As someone really into fighting games, it does pain me to realize Nintendo's strides towards creating unique console experiences directly counteracts any possibility of other fighting games arriving to their systems. It really, really drives me nuts, having to always get both a Nintendo console and either a Sony or Microsoft console, whichever has more fighters.

I dunno, I'm not a fighter fan specifically, but the idea of a portable NX seems pretty awesome for fighting games, at least from the perspective of someone who remembers the lines at the arcades for the Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat machines back in the glory days. Mobile couch-coop seems like the ideal platform for a fighting game!

 

[Flareth]

As someone really into fighting games, it does pain me to realize Nintendo's strides towards creating unique console experiences directly counteracts any possibility of other fighting games arriving to their systems. It really, really drives me nuts, having to always get both a Nintendo console and either a Sony or Microsoft console, whichever has more fighters.

I don't quite follow. It's not like the handheld model's going to be button-free or lacking in that department. Or is it because the smaller screen is supposed to be un-ideal for a fighting game? I might agree with that, at least so far as local multiplayer is concerned, but assuming there's a TV mode it shouldn't be an issue.

When the "Project Cafe" (WiiU's Codename pre-announce) was first leaked in rumors, and then announced, I pretty much knew what NX would be before we knew there was an "NX" beyond Miyamoto commenting that "they're always working on the next console." You're right, WiiU was the idea of putting core gaming on a kind of tablet, but in such a limited way because they didn't think the tablet craze was going to take off like it did. They thought it was a revolution "Wow it's like a handheld computer!" Instead Apple beat them to market with a even slicker tablet, and then the me-too's flooded the market with tablets that were truly stand-alone.

I think Nintendo was partly caught off guard to a degree, eating more sales than they expected to lose, but looking at the timing, etc, I really do think my original idea about WiiU as a transition console is correct. It seemed that way even at launch - launching without a complete OS or anything. Showing the Gamepad without showing a console, showing it flatter, with Circle Pads instead of sticks. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if WiiU was originally supposed to be what NX is turning out to be but the tech just wasn't there to do it at the time so they quick retrofitted a console around it when it became clear that a stand-alone portable dockable console wasn't getting to market before the Wii 1 life ended and it was a great way to get us to pay for the R&D twice. Looking in hind-sight, the release window, the stalling for NX release, the "delaying it" to handhelds usual launch cycle, winding down WiiU to coincide with 3DS's pattern. And never forgetting the building of the unified hardware building right as WiiU launched.

Iwata was a slick one... :D

It's a shame I don't remember much about the time before the Wii U's unveiling. The only memories I can recall are me shutting some NintenDOOMer up prior to that E3, another guy saying that it was already outclassed by the PS4 (3?) using a Vita as a controller, and Nintendo's stock dropping (again) almost immediately afterwards. Although I don't think I was actually around much for that whole shebang...

With all that in mind, I can only suspect that having to scrap their original plans and hobble together a console so they'd have something to release may've been yet another factor that led to the U's troubles. The system's a ***** to develop for? That happens when said system's architecture was thrown together at the last minute. Makes me wonder if it would've been better to just put the whole thing on hold until the right technology came along.*
*Of course I'm aware that that's a very stupid business move, and would probably result in nothing but a bunch of pissed off shareholders and Nintendo's stock dropping anyway.

Hmm, good point. If that part of the rumor is true, both WILL need their own battery, because the one rumored idea is you can detach them for local co-op anywhere. P1, P2 each get a (wireless) controller, and the screen has a kickstand like a tablet. Couch-coop in the park. So given that, you're right they'd need an electrical connection to the main unit to CHARGE when in the dock (or separate docking pins for the controller halves.) but it wouldn't need a connection to be stable for play. And looking at the infinite battery life of the Pro Controller, keeping them charged even with a dodgy connection wouldn't be problematic. I can use that thing every day for months and never charge it and it weighs next to nothing. Still it would be easy enough to have a charging connector on either side of the screen in the cradle, OR a really rugged power link to the main unit. It's just dipole power, no grounding path needed. Make the locking latches metal, and there's your pickup. Low voltage power delivery is tons easier than signal wires.

Ugh, that's a bummer. Now if each half of the controller is also able to be used standalone for co-op... they can't seriously be planning on fitting 12 buttons and 3 pads on a single grip, can they? That's madness, I tell you. So I don't know how else they're gonna do it, unless it's a glorified SMG Co-Star mode with player 1 running and player 2 jumping, which I don't see catching on... unless they go through with the whole raiseable buttons idea, in which case it has a shot.

I see two ways that they could solve this charging issue. One is, as you said, the dock having separate ports for the halves on either side of it. The other way would be for the halves to need a separate charger; most likely it'd be a split cable, but I could see it being weird and having the cable end in a little block with ports on either side for the halves to connect to (much like the dock).

Either way, I'm not liking this idea much. It sounds needlessly complex, even for Nintendo. I do say that it's a step-up from the whole "free-form screen and slide-thumbpad-to-press-buttons" concept, however.

I don't think there's much room for Android chargers. Besides what's an Android charger? My Samsung has a proprietary thing, some just use USB, etc. But this is Tegra, think tablet, not phone. Every Android tablet I've seen including other Tegra ones all have barrel-pin power bricks like a normal laptop. USB just doesn't deliver the current for those huge huge capacity batteries. Not proprietary technically, you can get properly sized pins on universal power bricks that will work at Rat Shack, but those suck, burn hot, and aren't really "universal".

So I imagine proprietary. I think there might be two bundles (at least in Japan, maybe/maybe-not here) a "home dock kit" and a "basic" kit. Basic comes with just the handheld as a handheld and probably no charger (buy your own!) and "home dock kit" costs $50-100 more and includes the dock, charger, cables etc. If it's a portable it's silly to force the home dock, especially in the Japan market where portable dominates 5:1.

I meant the sort of cable that you'd get with a Galaxy or LG phone, like this. I didn't know that most tablets don't use 'em tho; granted, the only tablets I'm familiar with are the iPad (which is pretty standard so far as I know, outside of needing a bigger brick than iPhones) and the Kindle (which did use the above cable type), so I kinda only have myself to blame for that.

By proprietary, do you mean the same sort of cables that Nintendo's using now, or a new type exclusive to the NX? Because I can agree with the former (that's what I'm thinking as well), for another new cable type seems a bit unnecessary when we have two/three that can work.

I've heard it said that the console market in Japan is dying, so it might be wise for Nintendo to not bother with a home bundle there. Here, I think they can get away with selling both. Average Jane living on-campus probably doesn't have room for a TV (nor a home console by extension) in her dorm, so the basic kit would be right up her alley; meanwhile, the home bundle is there for the families and die-hard gamers like us. Did we come to opposite conclusions or something?

That's a sacrifice in specs compared to power guzzling mid-end PCs from MS/Sony. But they'd be pushing the absolute bleeding edge of portable tech in a way Nintendo hasn't pushed tech since 1996.

I'm curious, does the portable market have any sort of Crysis-like games that push phones/tablets to their limits, or is that not practical yet considering the platform?

I think some 3rd parties would be on board in order to try to tap the portable market if they have a device that could do it (and x86->ARM64 is a fairly easy port....to a degree.) But the fans that want a super-power console from N, miss the point. People that want EA games already like XB/Sony/PC, they're not going to change, they have their brand. Nintendo would be throwing money trying to steal customers that are already happy. More, 3rd parties use hardware as an excuse but ultimately they don't work with Nintendo because they don't WANT to work with Nintendo. Sony and MS are not really software publishers. They have aa few exclusives to pull the platform, but they're not the spotlight on their platforms. Nintendo is the only publisher bigger and more influential than themselves as far as major publishers are concerned. Why would they HELP their stronger competitor? Nintendo's the only platform holder directly competing AGAINST its own 3rd party publishers. THAT is their problem with 3rd party. That won't be solved by any hardware solution.

Thus any publisher that compets AGAINST them (EA, Acti etc) will have strained relations. Can't ignore them, don't want to work with them. A super powered console wouldn't be much more likely to get Fallout than an NX :)

I wholeheartedly agree, man. Nintendo could go all-out with this thing, give it x86 and a 500Tb hard drive, the best graphics cards money can buy, interchangeable parts to ensure it can always stay ahead of the competition, open mod support, committing financial/corporate suicide as a sacrifice to build the ultimate gaming machine—and yet EA would still just make a FIFA game for the PS2 instead.

Call it anti-Nintendoism, call it smart business decisions, call it BOO CAPITALISM, call it whatever the hell you want, but those guys are gone for good. Any attempt to bring them back is an exercise in futility. Now, if someone at Activision decides that CoD 2018: NX Edition will sell, then it'll happen, but there's not much that Nintendo itself can do to make it happen beyond buying them out a bit. It's a bit like trying to get with a crush: Ninty can do various things to woo the 3rd parties to join them, but it can't force them to. That's a decision that they will have to make for themselves.

 

[SpiralRhapsody]

Yeah I didn't make myself very clear

I dunno, I'm not a fighter fan specifically, but the idea of a portable NX seems pretty awesome for fighting games, at least from the perspective of someone who remembers the lines at the arcades for the Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat machines back in the glory days. Mobile couch-coop seems like the ideal platform for a fighting game!

"Mobile couch-coop" sounds magical in theory, like it could be the next best thing when it comes to reviving arcade memories. One concern I have is the controllers themselves; how big is this system going to be? How big will its components be? Assuming the NX is actually going to be lucky and be graced with any mainstream fighters releasing within the years 2017 through... i dunno, 2019(?), the controllers have to be adequate in order to support said games. One thing I'm really, really tired of is seeing what I have on the Nintendo console, then looking across the river to see the rest of the world playing every good fighter besides Smash. Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom was a nice treat on the Wii, but other than that? The 3DS port of Super Street Fighter IV never got the subsequent significant updates.

I worry that the system will seem too unworthy for devs to make good fighters for; no offense to anyone who's a fan of these, but I'm not exactly looking for the Naruto and DBZ arena fighters, either. That, and I worry that the controllers will not be adequate (dude, I HOPE those controllers have more buttons than the mock image suggests...) , nor will the system support USB ports for arcade sticks. I suppose the right thing to pray for is that more collaborations like Pokken happen.

I don't quite follow. It's not like the handheld model's going to be button-free or lacking in that department. Or is it because the smaller screen is supposed to be un-ideal for a fighting game? I might agree with that, at least so far as local multiplayer is concerned, but assuming there's a TV mode it shouldn't be an issue.

I rambled about my worries regarding the controllers above. I'm going to be really, really brutally honest with myself and admit my so-called "diehard" loyalty to Nintendo is being tested with these rumors; it just seems like a system that devs are going to ignore when it comes to good fighters. Which is absolutely the worst case scenario. In actuality, there's nothing really wrong here, it looks fine, the console seems really cool, I just hope this unique approach to gaming isn't what deters devs from making games of this particular genre for the system.

Oh, right, the screen. TV mode is a given so i'm not too worried about that, but hey, I'd always dig a bigger screen than a small one. In theory, if something like Street Fighter V made its way to NX (which it won't), I could handle it, but in no way in HELL am I playing Marvel Vs. Capcom on the NX's screen.

 

[Award]

I don't quite follow. It's not like the handheld model's going to be button-free or lacking in that department. Or is it because the smaller screen is supposed to be un-ideal for a fighting game? I might agree with that, at least so far as local multiplayer is concerned, but assuming there's a TV mode it shouldn't be an issue.

I figure, 3DS has Street Fighter, DoA, Smash, and all the Virtual Console fighters it has. And I suspect NX's controller will be a little more ideal (more buttons) , maybe better response.

But kids these days don't understand fighters. Fighters are played on large joysticks they way they were meant to be played! :P

It's a shame I don't remember much about the time before the Wii U's unveiling. The only memories I can recall are me shutting some NintenDOOMer up prior to that E3, another guy saying that it was already outclassed by the PS4 (3?) using a Vita as a controller, and Nintendo's stock dropping (again) almost immediately afterwards. Although I don't think I was actually around much for that whole shebang...

With all that in mind, I can only suspect that having to scrap their original plans and hobble together a console so they'd have something to release may've been yet another factor that led to the U's troubles. The system's a ***** to develop for? That happens when said system's architecture was thrown together at the last minute. Makes me wonder if it would've been better to just put the whole thing on hold until the right technology came along.*
*Of course I'm aware that that's a very stupid business move, and would probably result in nothing but a bunch of pissed off shareholders and Nintendo's stock dropping anyway.

WiiU is a comedy of errors, some forced, some unforced, some possibly intentional. Most related to how behind the times they were with Wii. In a way, WiiU was the culmination of a chain reaction of errors since Yamauchi got the Nintendo Play Station wrong, and then had to pidgeionhole the N64 with low memory in the attempt to backpedal. Ever since they've been treading water and drifting backward (in the console space, in handheld they're an immovable monopoly that even MS didn't want to fight against.) N64 they treaded water against the CD games, losing ground. GameCube grew out of that. It was a reaction of a console, not a statement. GameCube didn't fail because of GCN, it failed because of a lag in seeing the real harm of the N64. Wii was a wise reset, but they learned the wrong lessons from it. It catered to the "casual" (minigame) market, abandoned their core market too easily in the chase for endless profit, and I do believe Iwata honestly believed he'd made everyone appreciate gaming. They pivoted to make that their new market, just as phone and tablet games were ramping up. The market left them, and they lost the core already. Meanwhile they underestimated HD's spread. They thought they had more time, but they didn't know what Sony (a TV MFR) did, that HD was going to be forced by GOVERNMENT action in the west to take over the market (of course Sony bribery made sure that would happen and only Sony knew.) MS had the slush funds to reissue an HD XBox 360 after the non-HD original batch to correct it. Nintendo doesn't work that way. So Nintendo was left with a box way behind in tech, who's main market abandoned it, and the core market was abandoned by N.

During all this, the WiiU (or NX?) was being developed. They sat on the dead-for-2-years Wii knowing they needed to go HD fast. If NX wasn't ready yet, throwing together the WiiU knowing it would buy time until the 3DS ran its course based on an "inverse concept" of NX would make sense. Going with the Wii brand was a (very) misguided attempt to use the hyper popular Wii branding to re-sell to all the same buyers. The PPC architecture was kept to maintain backward compatibility for the ever-popular Wii titles. They were trying to NOT use the Nintendo brand after the dismal failure of GameCube thinking Wii was now a popular brand. It backfired. Gamers hated the Wii brand and didn't trust it. Casuals thought it was the same machine they had because they don't follow these things.

"The Unprecedented Partnership"
The other shoe fell when Riccitiello's "unprecedented partnership" he declared on-stage with Iwata fell apart and EA actively set out to damage the WiiU. Whatever happened there (rumor has it, EA wanted to use Origin as the eShop and Nintendo Network, and when Nintendo reversed course, EA went Scorched Earth.) They tried to salvage WiiU as "also an X360!" and between porting expenses for WiiU and the standardization on x86 PC architecture in the industry, they wanted to kill WiiU and started "leaking" damaging comments (some untrue). Other publishers picked up on EA bailing and quickly joined suit. There was, to anyone watching the first 2 years of WiiU, very intentional brand damage being done by EA and afterward, others. I would not expect to see EA games on a Nintendo console, EVER again after that. Not until they axe half the management responsible.

"The Apple Tax"
Ninty thought the tablet was going to be revolutionary. A web browser in my hands! They didn't see iPad coming. They were in development at the same time. The iPad followed by the flood of Android tablets took the thunder out of WiiU pretty fast.

IMO GCN was the last "conventional" home console Nintendo will do. That failed and Wii marked a reset into a different market space than "core gamers" that were not truly loyal to other brands. Wii U seems like it tried to be something it couldn't be and like they never expected it to be that anyway. Off-TV was awesome, but being tethered to the console killed some of its fun. Especially since 3DS exists and does that job better. Then again, unlike WiiU or GCN, NX sounds like it hits the pulse of modern consumer electronics. Why buys electronics tethered to the wall in the age of the smartphone? Pokemon Go confirms: Mobile is where the mass market (read not AAA Dorito gamers) is, and NX really needs only the slogan "It's what PS Vita said it was but wasn't, except a lot better" :P Technically it's the Game Boy that set Nintendo's fate as a handheld rather than console company. The NES sold ok. The Game Boy sold LIKE CRAZY. (Proud owner of original gray DMG-01 <-) That's the market they aimed for since.

Ugh, that's a bummer. Now if each half of the controller is also able to be used standalone for co-op... they can't seriously be planning on fitting 12 buttons and 3 pads on a single grip, can they? That's madness, I tell you. So I don't know how else they're gonna do it, unless it's a glorified SMG Co-Star mode with player 1 running and player 2 jumping, which I don't see catching on... unless they go through with the whole raiseable buttons idea, in which case it has a shot.

I see two ways that they could solve this charging issue. One is, as you said, the dock having separate ports for the halves on either side of it. The other way would be for the halves to need a separate charger; most likely it'd be a split cable, but I could see it being weird and having the cable end in a little block with ports on either side for the halves to connect to (much like the dock).

Either way, I'm not liking this idea much. It sounds needlessly complex, even for Nintendo. I do say that it's a step-up from the whole "free-form screen and slide-thumbpad-to-press-buttons" concept, however.

We know that all buttons required for Breath of the Wild are present. So we know there's probably a lot of buttons. But it's fair to assume the couch co-op gets HALF those buttons and games have to be designed that co-op mode takes less buttons - OR - requiring external controllers, depending on the game. Nintendo likes "supported controller" confusion, so it would be normal for them. I can see the built in controller halves being for simplified games (3D World). you only need more complex controls for split-screen games (which are better on the TV with a separate pro controller anyway obviously.) Simpler games like fighters, platformers would work ok with limited buttons. And I suspect it will still support local multiplayer like 3DS so if you have two NX's you each use your own screen. I love 3DS local multi, compared to split screen.

I can't see the charging needing anything but the dock. N focuses on intuitive simple use from a sort of "lifestyle" perspective. Original 3DS and WiiU Deluxe came with a cradle for a reason :) The dockable controllers are probably the most unconfirmed of rumors so far though. But it DOES sound Nintendo-ish so I give it credit :) They like their gimmicks to stand out to kids. Usually the gimmics stay out of the way however. I'll miss the clamshells though. Hmm, maybe the controllers actually form the LID? Hmm...Flip-OUT controllers would be cool :) Though the hinge would be a weak point, maybe not.

I meant the sort of cable that you'd get with a Galaxy or LG phone, like this. I didn't know that most tablets don't use 'em tho; granted, the only tablets I'm familiar with are the iPad (which is pretty standard so far as I know, outside of needing a bigger brick than iPhones) and the Kindle (which did use the above cable type), so I kinda only have myself to blame for that.

By proprietary, do you mean the same sort of cables that Nintendo's using now, or a new type exclusive to the NX? Because I can agree with the former (that's what I'm thinking as well), for another new cable type seems a bit unnecessary when we have two/three that can work.

I've heard it said that the console market in Japan is dying, so it might be wise for Nintendo to not bother with a home bundle there. Here, I think they can get away with selling both. Average Jane living on-campus probably doesn't have room for a TV (nor a home console by extension) in her dorm, so the basic kit would be right up her alley; meanwhile, the home bundle is there for the families and die-hard gamers like us. Did we come to opposite conclusions or something?

MHL. A Sony patent dont'cha know. Don't count on it :P It would be a handy interface though....


I picture the type they're using now, but, that depends on if those chargers carry enough current. If not it would be a new connector to prevent people from plugging a 3DS charger into it. SLOW chargers like that take FOREVER to charge which is bad. BUT it maximizes battery lifetime. Not sure if they'd re-use it here.

I think the NX bundles would be pretty ideal in Japan really. The home console market is dying but not dead. If you don't have to spend much money bundling a dock in a box to cater to a niche market, why not go for it? Even if you sell to the 1.5M that bought Splatoon, that's 1.5M docks sold. Not bad for dropping a hunk of plastic in a cardboard box along with the new handheld! It really embodies the reason the whole hybrid idea isn't just good but is really essential. Among the consoles, Ninty has always had its main market in Japan....if Japan's getting out of consoles, so must Nintendo. The hybrid ties it up so nicely. I also think with a hybrid bundle with dock people that would NOT have bought a console like Jane in the dorm, might pick up the bundle anyway - it's only a little more and you get a console for "free" out of your handheld without taking up more space than a dock! (If there's a TV.)

I'm curious, does the portable market have any sort of Crysis-like games that push phones/tablets to their limits, or is that not practical yet considering the platform?

Oh there's tons of appstore games that push the graphics hardware. Most of them are just b-grade clones of course, but they'll eat a battery in 20 minutes flat. The best examples are of course nVidia's own Shield supported games, mostly ports of X360 games (Tegra X1 on Android.) That's the most powerful graphics mobile hardware so those games as showcases are meant to push it. The port of Doom4 is pretty shader heavy. there's phone stuff too of course. People love boasting about the gfx on phones these days, but the phones generally use little shaders atop those complex mesh's.

I wholeheartedly agree, man. Nintendo could go all-out with this thing, give it x86 and a 500Tb hard drive, the best graphics cards money can buy, interchangeable parts to ensure it can always stay ahead of the competition, open mod support, committing financial/corporate suicide as a sacrifice to build the ultimate gaming machine—and yet EA would still just make a FIFA game for the PS2 instead.

Call it anti-Nintendoism, call it smart business decisions, call it BOO CAPITALISM, call it whatever the hell you want, but those guys are gone for good. Any attempt to bring them back is an exercise in futility. Now, if someone at Activision decides that CoD 2018: NX Edition will sell, then it'll happen, but there's not much that Nintendo itself can do to make it happen beyond buying them out a bit. It's a bit like trying to get with a crush: Ninty can do various things to woo the 3rd parties to join them, but it can't force them to. That's a decision that they will have to make for themselves.

LOL, exactly! Fans seem not to understand that, unfortunately.

Combination of all the above. Business: Stats show Ninty gamers buy Ninty games. Why make your game for Ninty if Metroid comes out the same quarter? Nobody on that platform buys your game anyway. Everyone on XBox does where your game IS the Metroid equivalent. Business: Helping Nintendo succeed is helping a competitor succeed. Why not help Ninty's competition beat them especially while they're weak. personal: EA and Activision exist largely as a reaction to Nintendo. They EXIST to be anti-Nintendo. Nintendo, back in the 80s was....not a very nice company. Yamauchi was a shark. His attack dogs at NoA, Lincoln and Arakawa (his son in law) used strongarm and monopolistic practices, some of which are now illegal (refusing to sell to retailers that sold Sega etc.) the strict max licenced games per year (good for gaming actually, but bad for those publishers.) The big publishers popped up to fight against that system and push competing brands. (Ironically Sega screwed EA worse :P )