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Sloshing Machine: Analysis and Thoughts

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by HappyBear801, Nov 27, 2015.

  1. Airi

    Airi Inkling Commander

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    That's weird. o.o Makes me wonder what it was then. We were in the large clear section towards the right on d'Alfonsino so it didn't appear that they were hitting anything. Ah~ Wish I had been recording so I could replay it and see what happened. I'm never using my capture card at the right moments haha.

    I think I may just stick with saying it may have been some lag if it can't be redone since there wasn't really anything to block the Inkzooka's path.

    Thank you for testing it. :) I was curious but rarely have anyone to play with so late. ^.^
     
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  2. Jeffrizzel

    Jeffrizzel Semi-Pro Squid

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    Weird stuff happens sometimes. One time I got splatted and when I respawned I automatically got splatted again on the base without anyone shooting me
     
  3. Flammie

    Flammie Inkling Cadet

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    I love this weapon, it does have potential, but the CONS it drags with it makes it less useful than what it may look like.

    The major PRO it has, is it's unique ability of having the blast radius of a blaster constantly around itself when fired, but of course weaker, so it has a very big hit range when fired, used right and it can easily detect anyone trying to sneak up or hide from you, plus you can use this over small boxes and such and hit the from there too.

    This would be extremely good on Tower Control, especially when there is a lot of opponents on it, firing it at a perfect angle, nobody will be able to dodge the first shot, either getting stuck or panicking, giving you the opportunity to either finsih one off, or increasing the panic further.

    It's short range is the main reason it wouldn't be as useful as it could be, having a longer range, or making the splash with more damage would be one way to improve it.

    Still need to test it further to make sure where it would be useful.

    The fact that it's shaped like a washing machine just had me rolling on the ground for an hour at least. :D
     
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  4. Leronne

    Leronne Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    if we've learned anything, is that the developers aren't shy of buffing weapons. they gave the H-3 more range and the dual squelcher got faster strafing speed. i hope that if they do balance it, that they should make the vortex hitbox bigger and give it slightly more range.
     
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  5. Smoothshake317

    Smoothshake317 Pro Squid

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    Not to sound like an MLG elitist, but how are you guys so terrible with this weapon and H-3 D. IT IS LITERALLY A CATAPULT PEOPLE! Sometimes I wish people would get really good at using blasters, because they might learn a lesson or two about how one both spaces themselves from the opponent and predicts where their targets will move. It is super easy. I was able to get 7/2 one game with little effort. 9/2 the next. It is not hard people.

    1. This weapon Does Not have terrible range. Its effective range is 3 lines of distance which is only 0.2 lines less than the regular slosher. Now you maybe saying "No its not, I tested it and it was less than that." Let me ask you a question: Have you ever tried to arc it like you are supposed to like any other slosher? From 3 lines away I can still get a direct hit if I arc it properly and outrange a goddamn tentatek (they only have an effective distance of 2.5 lines).
    2. Like a Slosher and a Blaster, you should take advantage of height distances. To do this properly you need to learn at what angles your projectile reaches its peak of the arc and at what height this is. Learn this YOU NEED TO PRACTICE WITH IT! Take time in the testing area and learn how it works. If there are no height differences, how about you jump?
    3. An interesting quirk with this weapon is that it can attack around corners like a Blaster. While it is not as good at this compared to blasters, you can still take advantage of it. If it is not enough, take advantage of your Splat Bombs. Also, like a Slosher, it can hit over walls.
     
    MakesDream likes this.
  6. Of Moose & Men

    Of Moose & Men Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Uhm, that still doesn't alleviate the massive problems it does have. Which I've stated in the previous page. It is an interesting weapon, but no amount of practice will fix its wonky hitbox, lack luster damage output and the fact arcing it doesn't hit anything in front of you like it does with any other Slosher. The range is nice, that isn't something I myself have complained about, and its pseudo Blaster ending is nice, but it's really not enough to warrant it over the Vanilla Slosher.
     
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  7. Kaze

    Kaze Pro Squid

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    #47 Kaze, Nov 28, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
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  8. Smoothshake317

    Smoothshake317 Pro Squid

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    It does not have bad damage output. It is faster than most blasters even with 3 indirects. I have done the frame calculations and it is on par with the Rapid Blaster for pure indirect kills, plus it has more consistent damage than the Rapid Blaster itself. Therefore, you cannot say that this weapon is bad at getting kills without say that blasters are bad at getting kills. As for the hit box, it is not wonky. It does damage to the opponent by having it fall on them just like every other slosher. Keep in mind that Sloshers don't do damage to the opponent by having the wave of ink rush into them. They actually do damage to the opponent by having the ink fall on them. I will say it again: SLOSHERS ARE CATAPULTS!!!!!! If you are aiming directly at your opponent with a slosher, you are doing yourself a disservice. This is because you are actually give up the extra range that you could have gotten it you arced it upwards. Now another thing about this weapon is that it teaches you how to control and change how much you arc your shot.

    I wonder how people aim CATAPULTS to hit people right in front of them... hmm if only I could change the trajectory of my missile... oh wait I can to that. Do yourself a favor and go practice in the testing room for at least 20 minutes to actually get to know how the projectile works and maybe you will surprise yourself by figuring out how one actually uses the weapon properly. Come back and tell me your results of how much you learned about the weapon by spending time with it and observing its quirks. Finally, not to insult you and mostly everyone in this thread, but the mechanics of this weapon could honestly be learned by a 5 year-old throwing their toys in the yard at different angles.
     
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  9. Of Moose & Men

    Of Moose & Men Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Lol, my god the arrogance on this guy. . .

    I didn't say it has bad damage output, but for how precise the shots need to be the damage could have been better. Also, every other slosher has a Massive hitbox. Have you ever used a slosher? Like, ever? The "vortex" the Sloshing Machine creates is nice and fancy and all, but it requires you to be VERY precise, which is not something any other Slosher has required, but if I wanted a precision weapon I'd be using others that aren't sloshers. It's pseudo blaster effect is cool, I've admitted that, and it's pretty unique. And I love this statement right here "If you are aiming directly at your opponent with a slosher, you are doing yourself a disservice." This is what the Sloshing machine sort of requires you to do. The other Sloshers have the large hit box that, while yes you are catapulting the ink, actually falls onto the opponent (which the Sloshing Machine does not do if it's arced to high) and leaves little wiggle room for said opponent to get away. As far as the Sloshing Machine goes, Arcing it too high means your "vortex" isn't close enough to the ground, which means you're not hitting anything hiding or literally right in front of you. Even if you are, if you're not aiming directly at the opponent, you're shaving them with the edge of the vortex, leading to 2-3HKO's leading to you likely getting splatted, or them getting away, which is where "aiming at your opponent" comes into play. It's not an atrocious weapon I'll admit, but you can't sit here and act like it has no downsides dude. It has positives, but I still feel that isn't enough to warrant its use over other Sloshers. You can moan, groan, and essentially say crap we already know all you want, but the truth is, it's just not that great. It's not terrible, but it's not all that great. If I wanted something that sort of worked like this, I'd use a blaster. If I wanted something to net kills with big hitboxes, go over walls, or do things like Burst Canceling I'd use the Vanilla Slosher.

    Whew. . . Okay, firstly, I spent A LOT of time in the training room experimenting with the Sloshing Machine. I went over damage calculations, trajectory, hitboxes, ink coverage, I spent a good half an hour with the Sloshing Machine because I REALLY wanted to use it. I was a sucker for its design. However, even after toying around with it I have a hard time saying it's really all that great of a weapon.
    Second, try not to assume stuff please, I messed around with the Sloshing Machine quite a bit more than I thought I would.
    Third, if you're going to argue your point on it, use something other than "I said so, and because I said so it's right so you just must suck and not know how to use it".

    Step off your pedestal.
     
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  10. ThatBerkawitzSquid

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    Clarification for whoever apparently said the Slosher outranges the Sloshing Machine, the Sloshing Machine actually has 55 range, compared to the Slosher's 52, so it has more range, not less. The problem is that, considering that it does less damage (on indirect shots, which are about as precise as any regular Slosher shot) and fires slower than the regular Slosher, it should have much more range than it does, probably closer to 65 (the range of a Squiffer and the Rapid Blaster Pro, just under the Dual Squelcher and Splattershot Pro). This would make it a very effective defensive weapon, especially when it has the high ground. As it stands now though, the Sloshing Machine frankly isn't very good, as disappointed as I am to say it. Still fun, like all Sloshers (I love them so), but a nice range buff like the H-3 got would turn this thing into a truly excellent weapon, so I really hope that happens at some point. You never know when a crazy balance update like 2.2 might happen again! :)
     
    #50 ThatBerkawitzSquid, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
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  11. Elecmaw

    Elecmaw Lord of the Squids

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    THIS, and the other damn posts i see from you everywhere else make you a giant hypocrite. There's also this example where flc basically called you out on your tier list and your attitude surrounding it yet you didn't apologize, you just backpedaled. I don't like calling out other posters(far from it), but you don't stop with your creepy holier-than-thou attitude and i think it's beyond stupid that i have to call you out in a completely unrelated topic. I love discussing weapons and argue why they are good and why they are bad, but if you are going to bust in here and belittle everyone for their opinions then what's the point?

    Can you not be vindictive with every single post you make, please?! The reason why i stopped discussing the Hydra isn't because i ran out of arguments, but because i knew it would erupt in a flamewar w/ you because you can't handle it. Hawk Seow's rebuttal to my points were actually civil and mature, while you basically trash-talk everywhere and belittle everyone here. Just stahp.
     
  12. Hawk Seow

    Hawk Seow Pro Squid

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    Thanks for putting it like that but my post wasn't a rebuttal (imo), it was meant to hopefully provide insight for anyone reading. :)
     
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  13. Of Moose & Men

    Of Moose & Men Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Alright. . .
    I love how you come at me because I have some "holier-than-thou attitude" when literally EVERY quote you just quoted is me replying to someone who used their idea of "I'm better than you and if I say it is/isn't good, it is/isn't good" to back your argument. And the only one where I didn't post like an ***, you removed the substance where I wasn't using this "Holier than thou" attitude. I simply provided a rebuttal, that's it. And I'm sorry, but if they're going to act like an ***, I am going to act like an *** as well. I couldn't possibly care less what you think about it. With that said, I'm not just pulling this "holier than thou" attitude out of my ***, it's only being surfaced when someone comes along with their "MLG Elitist" mindset and starts belittling people because of the things they've said. But I'm the Hypocrite aren't I? I'm the one going around saying "even 5 year olds get the concept" aren't I? I'm the one talking down to people in this thread aren't I? My actions weren't in any way provoked in all those quotes were they? I'm just a complete *** aren't I. I fail to see how I belittled anyone, and how defending my side in the same tone everyone else in those quotes makes me the bad guy, but that's fine.

    Also, I'm not going to apologize for someone stepping on my toes. Had the dude let me know he had a better concept, I wouldn't have said anything. I was trying to make the first Community based Viability thread, then he went about making his own. I'm not going to apologize for someone scrapping my idea for their own.

    If you're going to come at me personally, take it to my inbox since you clearly have some sort of vendetta with me.
     
    #53 Of Moose & Men, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
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  14. Hawk Seow

    Hawk Seow Pro Squid

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    At the risk of being off-topic, making two enemies and maybe many more, I'd like to just share my views as an onlooker with you two: Smoothshake317 and Of Moose & Men.

    Smoothshake317
    - It's nice to see that you have put a lot of thought and analysis into the various weapons but you have one particular issue which I never addressed in the H-3D thread when we conversed; you portray yourself as some sort of oracle of Splatoon weapons. You don't just voice your opinions, you express them as though they are divine truths. Honestly it rubbed me the wrong way but I didn't feel the need to address it then.

    You said, "Not to sound like an MLG elitist, but how are you guys so terrible with this weapon and H-3 D."

    Do you realize how this sounds to anyone else reading it? For my part, I ignored the tone of your messages and just addressed the relevant information because I'm not a fan of getting into internet quarrels (arguments and debates are fine with me).


    Of Moose & Men - I noticed this in the Hydra thread; you come across as very aggressive (not passive-aggressive) in your posts at times and whilst I'm sure you have your reasons (feeling antagonized by another post for example), it tends to lead to quarrels which isn't really what any of us want in these threads. As with Smoothshake317, I chose to just reply to the relevant points and ignore the aggressive tone, but I'd say it's better off to tone it down if you can. It'll make discussion a lot smoother here (not saying there can't be arguments, but ad hominem + sarcasm is really not getting us anywhere).

    Disclaimer: I'm not perfect at discussing things either, it's something I'm working on as time goes by. Also, I'm aggressive when I play games (love rushing down) and you guys should really see how much I curse whilst playing Splatoon. So feel free to call me a hypocrite or anything but I hope you consider what I've said above. :)
     
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  15. Elecmaw

    Elecmaw Lord of the Squids

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    I have absolutely ziltch interest into repeating this topic in a off-topic slowchat argument like with the Hydra, so i'll kindly leave it like this. And don't worry, i don't have a vendetta against you, Moose. You don't need to take things so personally, that's all.

    With that being said, my experience with the Sloshing Machine is that its actually very strong weapon and easy to learn so far. you can basically chuck projectiles at impossible angles unlike the regular sloshers, while the splat bombs are there to hit targets too far away. One thing i realised is that you can toss projectiles over the center ramps at arowana to completely lock out the center route and splat anyone currently on it. The fact the projectiles can actually hit someone currently hiding on a wall below you is also very useful. It's a weapon with a ton of different uses, and i'd imagine it'll really shine in Tower Control with the capacity to not only hit people on tower but also the ones far behind it. The only thing kind of weak about it is it's lackluster ttk.
     
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  16. Hawk Seow

    Hawk Seow Pro Squid

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    Alright I've decided to link some of my match videos with the weapon in question.

    Let me shed some light first though: I'm using motion controls at maximum sensitivity. The results herein aren't consistent across matches (level of opponents, synergy of teams, luck with latency etc.) but I hope it gives you guys some idea of how I approach the weapon. I can explain my thought process for most of my actions so go ahead and ask questions if you want. Most of all, feel free to critique!










    As you can guess from the title, this featured 3 snipers and myself, it was terrible but I did manage to ink a Whole Lotta Turf (Led Zeppelink :D )

    I'll update with a few more videos over time, if you want to see examples where I fail miserably tell me and I'll upload them too :x
     
    #56 Hawk Seow, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  17. Of Moose & Men

    Of Moose & Men Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Oh, I recognize this, I know I am aggressive, it's something I've always been. As far as the Ad Hominem, that hardly ever comes from me. It has once, and that's because the person was attacking me as a person and got a little too hot headed, I'll take the fall there. Sarcasm is what I tend to use most, and it's something I've picked up from another far more aggressive competitive community. I don't intend to "work" on it as it's something that needs to be used sometimes. However, here, I did not attack anyone personally, I simply stated my differing opinion and why it was differing. However, one person decided to take the two lines out of that entire paragraph and a half to use it as ammo, so that's the only thing that seems to have stuck. I was never my intention to get into some debacle about me personally, but someone had other plans I suppose.

    @Elecmaw I don't take things personally, usually. However, when you go out of your way to moan and groan about how I approach things, instead of talking about what I discussed, I sort of have to. I could address your short comings too, but I refrain from doing so. What made it worse was that you did it publicly, you could have very well taken it to my Inbox, but you didn't. So, don't try taking the high road here. I'll leave it at that.
     
  18. Hawk Seow

    Hawk Seow Pro Squid

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    Heh, yeah like I mentioned in the disclaimer, I can be very aggressive when it comes to discussion, especially in real life since talking is instant (and I can't edit what comes out of my mouth). Online I remind myself to read through what I've typed.

    Personally, I really hate sarcasm used aggressively in discussions (I like them in jokes). This isn't an attack on you but rather something I dislike whenever I see it in any thread. Reason being that, it usually doesn't contribute to anything, it doesn't take much intelligence to come up with and sometimes just ends up confusing other readers. But yeah, I'll refrain from addressing this things because it's really off topic. Cheers!

    Yea I feel in terms of learning curves it's not as hard as the Hydra nor the H-3. Learning to aim the shot so that it hits multiple enemies would be part of the upper learning curve IMO.

    With regards to it's TTK...I feel there's a reason for that. The width of it's attack is actually wider than that of a slosher so in ranked modes (I'm thinking TC and RM) where the enemy team is more likely to congregate together, you'd need around 3 shots to take them all out. If it's TTK were higher you might end up taking them out in 2 shots and that might effectively turn it into the new Dynamo (pre patch).

    I'll upload a video later of what I mean with regards to the width and all that. Edit: Turns out @Kaze has already uploaded a video of it. http://squidboards.com/threads/sloshing-machines-capability.17828/#post-129051

    Anyway, I've decided to supplement Kaze's video by showing two comparisons below. I have no damage-ups on the loadout shown in the video. Just one damage up main/sub is enough to allow the sloshing machine to splat the closest dummy (3x defense up no less) in 3 hits as opposed to 4.

    https://streamable.com/8re8

    https://streamable.com/9sdl

    Here's a video regarding lobbing shots. I assume if you land the shot directly on the head of the enemy, it counts as a critical hit.

    https://streamable.com/h5tn
     
    #58 Hawk Seow, Nov 29, 2015
    Lasted edited by : Dec 3, 2015
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  19. Graff

    Graff I'm not funny D:

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    I hate buckets. Good thing this is a washing machine.

    I really don't like button mash weapons, but I think I like the Blaster-esque vibe about the Sloshing Machine. Really feelin' it with this one.
     
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  20. Blue24

    Blue24 Inkling Commander

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    Completely Agree. Going all the back to the Carbon Roller, every new weapon that was released I had little interests in. I dont care for blasters and I dont care for sloshers....but this machine is just so damn fun.
     
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