Sloshing Machine: Analysis and Thoughts

[Jeffrizzel]

After watching the gifs about arcing the shots, I have gotten a lot better with this weapon. I'm doing great on Turf War. Not sure I will use it for Ranked.... It's a lot of fun. It's great for taking out snipers sitting on a perch. Laying a bomb down first helps a lot with foes in front of you. I switched my equipment too. I think Defense Up is great for this weapon because of how slow the fire rate is. You won't get any one hit kills no matter how many damage up you put on it, or very few, so it's not worth it to focus on damage up. I focus more on defense, ink recovery, and ink saver main, plus two run speed subs. Working great for me!

 

[Smoothshake317]

Lol, my god the arrogance on this guy. . .

I didn't say it has bad damage output, but for how precise the shots need to be the damage could have been better. Also, every other slosher has a Massive hitbox. Have you ever used a slosher? Like, ever? The "vortex" the Sloshing Machine creates is nice and fancy and all, but it requires you to be VERY precise, which is not something any other Slosher has required, but if I wanted a precision weapon I'd be using others that aren't sloshers. It's pseudo blaster effect is cool, I've admitted that, and it's pretty unique. And I love this statement right here "If you are aiming directly at your opponent with a slosher, you are doing yourself a disservice." This is what the Sloshing machine sort of requires you to do. The other Sloshers have the large hit box that, while yes you are catapulting the ink, actually falls onto the opponent (which the Sloshing Machine does not do if it's arced to high) and leaves little wiggle room for said opponent to get away. As far as the Sloshing Machine goes, Arcing it too high means your "vortex" isn't close enough to the ground, which means you're not hitting anything hiding or literally right in front of you. Even if you are, if you're not aiming directly at the opponent, you're shaving them with the edge of the vortex, leading to 2-3HKO's leading to you likely getting splatted, or them getting away, which is where "aiming at your opponent" comes into play. It's not an atrocious weapon I'll admit, but you can't sit here and act like it has no downsides dude. It has positives, but I still feel that isn't enough to warrant its use over other Sloshers. You can moan, groan, and essentially say crap we already know all you want, but the truth is, it's just not that great. It's not terrible, but it's not all that great. If I wanted something that sort of worked like this, I'd use a blaster. If I wanted something to net kills with big hitboxes, go over walls, or do things like Burst Canceling I'd use the Vanilla Slosher.

Whew. . . Okay, firstly, I spent A LOT of time in the training room experimenting with the Sloshing Machine. I went over damage calculations, trajectory, hitboxes, ink coverage, I spent a good half an hour with the Sloshing Machine because I REALLY wanted to use it. I was a sucker for its design. However, even after toying around with it I have a hard time saying it's really all that great of a weapon.
Second, try not to assume stuff please, I messed around with the Sloshing Machine quite a bit more than I thought I would.
Third, if you're going to argue your point on it, use something other than "I said so, and because I said so it's right so you just must suck and not know how to use it".

Step off your pedestal.

I am not being arrogant, I am being quite truthful. You however seem to be getting a little frustrated because you are not understanding the intricacies of the weapon nor what I am actually saying. Something I should have mentioned to make things more clearer is that you don't have to let the shot fall directly onto the target. That is to say, You can hit them with the projectile even if it is at the peak of its arc. With the Sloshing Machine you don't actually have to aim directly at an opponent like a shooter/charger. Please don't do this. As far as I saw when I was using the weapon, I was always arcing my shots to get maximum range. If your opponent says NO to this range, all you need to do is lower your arc which will change your trajectory. This will also change the peak of the arc to be much closer to you, essentially hitting anything that it right in front you like a horizontal torpedo.

As for this:

mechanics of this weapon could honestly be learned by a 5 year-old throwing their toys in the yard at different angles.

What I mean was that the physics of how this weapon works could be learned by a 5 year old by doing something of a similar caliber, e.g. throwing toys in the yard at different angles. Often in a physics class (at least a good one) one will find themselves doing things that a child would do. This is because the teacher/professor wants you to learn something of Newtonian Physics through a real life example. Things such as throwing a ball in the air at different angles to see at which angles the ball goes the furthest horizontal distance/vertical distance are activities that try to teach the students how the trajectory of thrown objects changes by changing the angle at which the object was thrown. I did not intend for it to be an insult, which is why is specifically said "not to insult you or the vast majority of everyone else on this thread."

From reading this text of yours, if I am not wrong (please tell me if I am) it seems that a main attractive feature of regular sloshers is that they can trap opponents through the falling. I will admit that you do lose that ability with this slosher due to losing the last 2 bullet groups in the weapon's params. That is a valid and specific reason for choosing the other sloshers over this one. However, it is not like you need to be perfectly precise to use it. That is the reason why the vortex is there, allowing it to act like a blaster.

Since you feel that I am making the weapon seem like it has no weaknesses, I will give you a few:

• This weapon has a very hard time dealing with weapons that are both faster and have longer range than it. I had much trouble against the typical Splattershot Pro and Dual Squelcher. .96 Gal also gave me much problem.
• Lack of Burst Bombs plus a lower fire rate makes this weapon weak in close range gun fights. This forces it to space itself from the opponent like a blaster would.

In the end however, I am not trying to say that it is a very good weapon, but I am arguing that it is not nearly as bad as most people on this thread say it is. Basically, it is a pretty average weapon in my case. Whether or not it is outclassed by the normal slosher, I don't know, so I leave that to you. But just because a weapon is outclassed does not mean it is bad.

 

[Blue24]

I think Defense Up is great for this weapon because of how slow the fire rate is. You won't get any one hit kills no matter how many damage up you put on it, or very few, so it's not worth it to focus on damage up. I focus more on defense, ink recovery, and ink saver main, plus two run speed subs.

I get 1-2 one shots per game with damage up. In some games I get more. Its not mandatory to have dmg up unless future data shows otherwise but its a good option. I have been playing around with def up build and speed build to see how it fares agianst Tentateks and .52s. As shown below, unless you want Ink resistance or coldblooded there is space for damage up for those that want it.

 

[Jeffrizzel]

I get 1-2 one shots per game with damage up. In some games I get more. Its not mandatory to have dmg up unless future data shows otherwise but its a good option. I have been playing around with def up build and speed build to see how it fares agianst Tentateks and .52s. As shown below, unless you want Ink resistance or coldblooded there is space for damage up for those that want it.

I run 1 def up main and 3 def up subs. I also run 1 ink recovery up main and 1 ink saver main main. I'm also running 3 special saver subs. 1 to 2 one hit kills isn't worth losing another ability imo, when really your talking about firing one more shot to get the ko, which shouldn't be a problem if you space well.

 

[Kaze]

Yea I feel in terms of learning curves it's not as hard as the Hydra nor the H-3. Learning to aim the shot so that it hits multiple enemies would be part of the upper learning curve IMO.

With regards to it's TTK...I feel there's a reason for that. The width of it's attack is actually wider than that of a slosher so in ranked modes (I'm thinking TC and RM) where the enemy team is more likely to congregate together, you'd need around 3 shots to take them all out. If it's TTK were higher you might end up taking them out in 2 shots and that might effectively turn it into the new Dynamo (pre patch).

I'll upload a video later of what I mean with regards to the width and all that. Edit: Turns out @Kaze has already uploaded a video of it. http://squidboards.com/threads/sloshing-machines-capability.17828/#post-129051

Anyway, I've decided to supplement Kaze's video by showing two comparisons below. I have no damage-ups on the loadout shown in the video. Just one damage up main/sub is enough to allow the sloshing machine to splat the closest dummy (3x defense up no less) in 3 hits as opposed to 4.

https://streamable.com/8re8

https://streamable.com/9sdl

Here's a video regarding lobbing shots. I assume if you land the shot directly on the head of the enemy, it counts as a critical hit.

https://streamable.com/h5tn

I recorded the videos in MP4-video format and converted them into GIFs so I could upload them on Imgur, I have never recorded before so kinda new to it.
I would not mind if someone with better recording equipment and editing skills took the time to make a Sloshing Machine Video about everything it can do.

 

[ZainreFang]

It's fairly decent and pretty unique. Nothing amazing though.

 

[Kaze]

I run 1 def up main and 3 def up subs. I also run 1 ink recovery up main and 1 ink saver main main. I'm also running 3 special saver subs. 1 to 2 one hit kills isn't worth losing another ability imo, when really your talking about firing one more shot to get the ko, which shouldn't be a problem if you space well.

I use 2 dmg up mains and 3 dmg up subs with the Sloshing Machine and I'm able to get few 1 hit splats, but I mainly use it to counter defense up players.

when you have 2 dmg up mains and 3 dmg up subs you do 92.6 dmg with a direct hit or 92.6 dmg with 2 vortex hits and it takes 3 seconds to take 50 dmg by standing in enemy ink without ink resistance, so they have to only stand in enemy ink for around 0.5 second to get 1 hit splatted by a direct shot and if they do have ink resistance then they have to stand in enemy ink for around 1 second to get 1 hit splatted by a direct shot, also keep in mind that you can 1 hit splat enemies that have not fully recovered from a encounter with your team mates, lets say they were at ( 90 / 100 ) health when you encountered them, a direct shot would have 1 hit splatted them with dmg ups.

This is set I used with the Sloshing Machine.

Spoiler

if someone has the time to do the proper calculations for a 1 hit splat with the Sloshing Machine, here are the raw numbers,
2 dmg ups mains and 3 dmg up subs will let a direct hit with the Sloshing Machine do:
92.6 dmg against 0 def up main
85.7 dmg against 1 def up main
80.0 dmg against 2 def up main
75.7 dmg against 3 def up main

Enemy Ink Damage With & Without Ink Resistance:
Without Ink Resistance it takes 3 seconds to take 50 dmg in enemy ink and it stops at 50 dmg
With Ink Resistance it takes 3 seconds to take 25 dmg in enemy ink and it stops at 25 dmg

 

[Jeffrizzel]

if someone has the time to do the proper calculations for a 1 hit splat with the Sloshing Machine, here are the raw numbers,
2 dmg ups mains and 3 dmg up subs will let a direct hit with the Sloshing Machine do:
92.6 dmg against 0 def up main
85.7 dmg against 1 def up main
80.0 dmg against 2 def up main
75.7 dmg against 3 def up main

Enemy Ink Damage With & Without Ink Resistance:
Without Ink Resistance it takes 3 seconds to take 50 dmg in enemy ink and it stops at 50 dmg
With Ink Resistance it takes 3 seconds to take 25 dmg in enemy ink and it stops at 25 dmg

I say that makes defense up worth it, but also you gotta think you won't face other Sloshing Machine players very often, so the damage you take when you have defense up will be even less. A lot less.

 

[Kaze]

I say that makes defense up worth it, but also you gotta think you won't face other Sloshing Machine players very often, so the damage you take when you have defense up will be even less. A lot less.

true, defense up can be pretty amazing against certain weapons especially if they don't have dmg up, but dmg up and def up pretty much just cancel each other out, so 3 dmg up mains will cancel out 3 def up mains making you deal the default dmg which is 76.0 dmg for the Sloshing Machine and 2 dmg up mains + 3 dmg up subs vs 3 def up mains will put you at 75.7dmg which is a 0.3 dmg difference which won't really save you.

don't worry though, I know what you're saying and you're right, but if they don't run a max defense up build the Sloshing Machine will still have a decent chance for a 1 hit splat against slightly hurt enemies.

 

[ZainreFang]

I gotta say, the janky hitbox of this weapon makes it very easy to use. I can hit people who are climbing up the wall towards me sometimes.

 

[Kaze]

I gotta say, the janky hitbox of this weapon makes it very easy to use. I can hit people who are climbing up the wall towards me sometimes.

you mean like this right ;D ?

 

[Jeffrizzel]

true, defense up can be pretty amazing against certain weapons especially if they don't have dmg up, but dmg up and def up pretty much just cancel each other out, so 3 dmg up mains will cancel out 3 def up mains making you deal the default dmg which is 76.0 dmg for the Sloshing Machine and 2 dmg up mains + 3 dmg up subs vs 3 def up mains will put you at 75.7dmg which is a 0.3 dmg difference which won't really save you.

don't worry though, I know what you're saying and you're right, but if they don't run a max defense up build the Sloshing Machine will still have a decent chance for a 1 hit splat against slightly hurt enemies.

Idk if it's lag or something but damage up doesn't seem to help me out much on anything. It seems like defense up does help me. I think maybe defense up is better for those experiencing lag. A lot of it is just what makes you feel comfortable. If the set up is comfortable for you then you'll do well. If your set up makes you have doubts then you'll play more tentatively.

 

[Kaze]

Idk if it's lag or something but damage up doesn't seem to help me out much on anything. It seems like defense up does help me. I think maybe defense up is better for those experiencing lag. A lot of it is just what makes you feel comfortable. If the set up is comfortable for you then you'll do well. If your set up makes you have doubts then you'll play more tentatively.

It could be lag, latency can make it harder to predict movement since they're not showing up consistently, and I have seen a enemy player swim through our team's color straight to our dynamo roller and splat them even though I inked the area in front of them, pretty sure that was lag. xD

not sure how reliable the Splat Bomb Combo with the Sloshing Machine are, but each time I pull it off during a normal match I always giggle a bit. xD

 

[Hawk Seow]

I recorded the videos in MP4-video format and converted them into GIFs so I could upload them on Imgur, I have never recorded before so kinda new to it.
I would not mind if someone with better recording equipment and editing skills took the time to make a Sloshing Machine Video about everything it can do.

I once wanted to do that (convert to gifs) but ended up preferring streamable for short clips. Also tbh, I'm not bothered enough to go and edit a video tutorial yet, not even sure how many people perusing this thread have even read or watched most of the things in here.

 

[Doof]

It's... a fun weapon, is all I can say.

As a Tri-Slosher main, the way this weapon works threw me for quite a loop! But as a Luna Blaster main, I like it! As other have said, the unique traits of the projectile make it an unorthodox weapon but it's given me some nice results so far! My favorite moments have been splatting opponents trying to climb a wall below me with the arc and trail of the weapon and also all my matches in Arowana Mall (splatting opponents behind walls has never felt so good!)

And I hate Arowana Mall!

I'm not gonna switch out my Tri-Slosher though, and I'm definitely sticking to the Luna Blaster Neo and the aftermentioned Tri-S and my Carbon Roller, but I'm gonna keep trying to use the Sloshing Machine for funsies. Can't go wrong with the Splat Bomb/Rush combo :b

 

[MakesDream]

shakes is right tho.

I see it as an unholy mix between a slosher and a blaster, trading their respective expertise for versatility. Reminds me a lot of an RB deco with an improved cqc game, traded for ranged spacing options.

it's a shame the neo has the set it does. I really would've really liked a blaster w/ burst bombs.

I actually think it's best mode is splatzones. in theory it should be good at tc, but I haven't had much luck of course I might be playing wrong.

Getting a direct hit over a wall is ****ing hilarious

 

[HappyBear801]

shakes is right tho.

I see it as an unholy mix between a slosher and a blaster, trading their respective expertise for versatility. Reminds me a lot of an RB deco with an improved cqc game, traded for ranged spacing options.

it's a shame the neo has the set it does. I really would've really liked a blaster w/ burst bombs.

I actually think it's best mode is splatzones. in theory it should be good at tc, but I haven't had much luck of course I might be playing wrong.

Getting a direct hit over a wall is ****ing hilarious

No! A Blaster or Blaster-type weapon with Burst Bombs would be the death of us all! The L3NND and Slosher are already torture enough!

 

[redacteddd]

I had to deal with it in a bunch o' tower control matches. While i don't think it was necessarily the scourge of those matches, they could hold their own and put up a good fight

 

[SupaTim]

Honestly, this seems like a better (in some ways) version of the Luna Neo. It has better range, better turfing, and easier time charging the bomb rush. It obviously lacks the OHKO, but the range helps that.

The bomb rush is so good I could definitely see people using it just for that. Although I might still give the edge to the Luna neo in TC.

 

[SuperHyperMegaTurbo]

I was really anticipating this weapon, but I'm not entirely happy with it.

It's fun, for sure, and I like killing people at pretty good range with two direct hits, but it takes a fair amount of accuracy that the other slosher-class weapons do not. It's not too bad, I suck at aiming and I still get it often enough, but... I think this weapon would be a viable alternative to the other sloshers if the vortex was a two-shot by itself, or maybe just very close to it.
As it is, I find inking the ground less easy with it than the other sloshers and the slower speed of attack makes close-combat really dangerous compared to them as well.

All that being said, bombs and bomb rush are a great sub and special, so it's not like it has a bad kit.

But still... imagine if a direct hit was a one-shot, like we wondered if it was what it would do back when it was incomplete data on the disk...