Splatoon 2: Find Out What's Fresh! (General Discussion)

[Spaceswitchmars]

Of course it comes back to the core netcode problem: Technically Splatoon/2 is a bad game, but the gameplay is so fun we tend not to notice it's actually a really bad game :p As a single player game it would be amazing. As an online game it kind of fails at the main tentpole of online games: Actually showing on the client side what the server side thinks is going on. So we just kind of put up with pretending it's not bad because we get hooked to using the admittedly fun weapons, even though we're applying to double-think to not notice they don't actually work right. And that also comes back to the thing with "too many weapons that can't be balanced." It's like they decided them based on what would be fun based on single player game thinking without thinking of how that plays out on the real internet. With Eguchi as a producer, never forget the same dude that thinks Tom Nook plays fair, made this game. :p

I've never played an Animal Crossing game, but isn't Tom Nook the dude who gives you home loan without any interest and no scheduled payments? I could be wrong, but I read that somewhere. I would literally kill someone if I could get the same terms on my mortgage.

As for the rest of this... It's actually proof of how great this game is that the netcode is so bad and we still love it. No trick here. The game is amazing. It's the internet part of it that needs...much work.

But that's so Nintendo, right? Nail the gameplay and drop the ball on a bunch of the other stuff. They need a department of people whose only job is to look at a game and tell them what basic features they need to add. Hire a bunch of people from Activision or EA who can't design games but are very in tune with how to change weapons between games in the lobby... Or in tune with having the game NOT take a full minute to get you from the moment the gameplay ends to the moment you're back in the lobby. Or in tune with...servers?

 

[Dessgeega]

Hire a bunch of people from Activision or EA

 

[Spaceswitchmars]

Hey now. They will NOT be able to touch the game. I just want them to take the game into the room where they're all playing Call of Battlefield, and let them say something like, "Hmmm... What if you could change weapons between matches..." And that's it. They never code. You just let them play Battleduty 2 until you need them to state really obvious stuff.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

Hire a bunch of people from EA

Splatoon 2 is already an awfully unfinished game, we don't need EA to make the game less unfinished. Plus when they finally release the game, EA would probably make all the extra weapons priced at a certain amount, or make you buy maps just to play on them. Most people already think that the price of $20 a year for internet services is a steep price among nintendo fans. We don't need EA to put a price tag of 0.99 USD on every new weapon release so that people can play their mains.

 

[Elecmaw]

I've never played an Animal Crossing game, but isn't Tom Nook the dude who gives you home loan without any interest and no scheduled payments? I could be wrong, but I read that somewhere. I would literally kill someone if I could get the same terms on my mortgage.

As for the rest of this... It's actually proof of how great this game is that the netcode is so bad and we still love it. No trick here. The game is amazing. It's the internet part of it that needs...much work.

But that's so Nintendo, right? Nail the gameplay and drop the ball on a bunch of the other stuff. They need a department of people whose only job is to look at a game and tell them what basic features they need to add. Hire a bunch of people from Activision or EA who can't design games but are very in tune with how to change weapons between games in the lobby... Or in tune with having the game NOT take a full minute to get you from the moment the gameplay ends to the moment you're back in the lobby. Or in tune with...servers?

Hey, Nintendo may make questionable decisions sometimes, but that's part of their more experimental nature compared to everyone else. Without Ninty we wouldn't have our squids game in the first place as pretty much every other company wouldn't have faith in this concept.

I get what you're talking about and i kinda agree with it (some features could be improved by having them looked at by more professionally-minded people who have experience in the field of matchmaking, netcode and what have you from ex-employees from competitors, but they probably have them already) but the immediate comparison to EA/Activision could've be worded a little bit better. When i think of EA/Activision my mind immediately wanders to the most generic brown WWII shooters out there and lootboxes, two things i am entirely sick of.

 

[Spaceswitchmars]

Hey, Nintendo may make questionable decisions sometimes, but that's part of their more experimental nature compared to everyone else. Without Ninty we wouldn't have our squids game in the first place as pretty much every other company wouldn't have faith in this concept.

I get what you're talking about and i kinda agree with it (some features could be improved by having them looked at by more professionally-minded people who have experience in the field of matchmaking, netcode and what have you from ex-employees from competitors, but they probably have them already) but the immediate comparison to EA/Activision could've be worded a little bit better. When i think of EA/Activision my mind immediately wanders to the most generic brown WWII shooters out there and lootboxes, two things i am entirely sick of.

Oh yeah. I need to REALLY clarify this point because it seems to be somewhat lost... I said the EA/Activision as...like...a joke? Pretty obviously so?

But the underlying point remains that Nintendo nails the game part of the games but misses on obvious features. I only brought EA/Activision into it (again, as a clear joke) because they're the opposite. They get the obvious features, but their games are whatever.

Do I think Nintendo needs a team that specifically checks games and says stuff like, "Hey, this shooter should let you switch loadouts between games"? Yeah. But (and I apparently cannot say this enough) I don't actually think they should be former EA or Activision employees. That part was a joke. Even if it wasn't, the joke-role I gave them would have nothing to do with actual game design, which I've said in two previous posts.

So again:

Not serious: Nintendo should hire former EA or Activision employees.
Serious: Nintendo needs a team that makes sure certain features make it into their online games. This team should have nothing to do with the gameplay itself. If this team does already exist (probably, it does), then some sort of overhaul is needed.

Splatoon 2 is already an awfully unfinished game, we don't need EA to make the game less unfinished. Plus when they finally release the game, EA would probably make all the extra weapons priced at a certain amount, or make you buy maps just to play on them. Most people already think that the price of $20 a year for internet services is a steep price among nintendo fans. We don't need EA to put a price tag of 0.99 USD on every new weapon release so that people can play their mains.

If they were available from the start, I'd pay a dollar per gun to play with all my mains from day one, hahaha. You may actually be onto something here. I take back saying that I was joking about hiring former EA employees. Let's get them in here. Try to tell me you wouldn't pay a dollar right now to splat some fools with a custom range blaster.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

Try to tell me you wouldn't pay a dollar right now to splat some fools with a custom range blaster.

I'd pay $1 easily, heck I'd pay $20 just to get it rn.
You got me there

 

[Ansible]

Pay? Pay?! Free Hydra Splatling before 2018/December 2017 or we riot!

 

[Dessgeega]

Spending additional money on games that are 60 dollars to begin with is like

 

[Spaceswitchmars]

Spending additional money on games that are 60 dollars to begin with is like
View attachment 5824

You know, when you factor in inflation, games have never been cheaper today than in the history of gaming... When you don't factor in withheld content that should have been in there in the first place that bolsters the price of games.... Wait... where was I?

Yeah, I'd pay a dollar for certain gunz.

 

[Dessgeega]

And as we've seen with games like Shadow of War, if you give game companies an inch they'll take all your money. There is no justifying ANY additional purchases in games that are 60 dollars to begin with.

Spoiler: A video with further discussion/ranting on the topic for anyone who's interested

 

[Award]

I've never played an Animal Crossing game, but isn't Tom Nook the dude who gives you home loan without any interest and no scheduled payments? I could be wrong, but I read that somewhere. I would literally kill someone if I could get the same terms on my mortgage.

As for the rest of this... It's actually proof of how great this game is that the netcode is so bad and we still love it. No trick here. The game is amazing. It's the internet part of it that needs...much work.

But that's so Nintendo, right? Nail the gameplay and drop the ball on a bunch of the other stuff. They need a department of people whose only job is to look at a game and tell them what basic features they need to add. Hire a bunch of people from Activision or EA who can't design games but are very in tune with how to change weapons between games in the lobby... Or in tune with having the game NOT take a full minute to get you from the moment the gameplay ends to the moment you're back in the lobby. Or in tune with...servers?

Yeah Nook gives you a loan without any interest or payment schedule. However he only gives a loan to buy an empty shack. You need to pay him to add...you know...rooms to your one room bungalow. And the rate skyrockets with each room added. So you pay like a million bells for a normal sized house, but there was "no interest." Meanwhile he sells you an empty home with no furniture, no appliances, not even a bed. You want those? You have to buy them at the store. And who runs the store? Nook's kids. Who typically want exorbitant fees for basic furnishings. And if you're paying them for furniture and appliances, you don't have the money to buy rooms for good old Pop. Shame (such a shame).

So it's a protection racket that forces you to keep spending money that prevents you from spending money, and the kids launder it for their father, and every little thing you want to do that should be considered part of the basic transaction is actually an add-on.

Actually....sounds a lot like EA..... ;)

And the guy behind that co-produces this game, too. :P

Haha, not sure it's proof it's a good game, but proof it's a fun design with fun weapons. If it were a "good game" they would actually work though. Fun mechanics implemented in a broken way sounds like every Ubisoft game ever :P And that's what Splatoon is. We get hooked and need our fix of that tuber or dynamo or whatever your poison...but since they don't work, and the actual competition is distorted by broken play. It's like playing Super Mario but the pits aren't actually where they look like they are, so you fall through the floor but can stand on the pits. They'd never ship that. But they ship this which has basically that exact problem, where a character you attack may not really be there, and a character that attacks you might have already been killed..... Imagine World 1-4 where Bowser can still kill you AFTER you drop the bridge. Or you drop through the axe and it doesn't drop the bridge. That's Splatoon. :P It's well masked behind fun elements but when you strip back the amusing window dressing, the flaws are.......Bethesda grade.... :P

Splatoon 2 is already an awfully unfinished game, we don't need EA to make the game less unfinished. Plus when they finally release the game, EA would probably make all the extra weapons priced at a certain amount, or make you buy maps just to play on them. Most people already think that the price of $20 a year for internet services is a steep price among nintendo fans. We don't need EA to put a price tag of 0.99 USD on every new weapon release so that people can play their mains.

Gold dynamo: $4.99.
Gold aerospray: $4.99
GOLDIE LOCK&LOAD PAK: $8.49

Skate Park: $3.99
Moray Towers: $4.99
Port Mackerel: $3.99
Retro Classix Bundle: $9.99

1.4 Patch? No, SEASON TWO UPGRADE KIT: $14.99

Splatfest: $1.99 event fee (includes Special Forces Beret with Opening Gambit!)

Salmon Run: $2.99 Team Wipe Continue!


Can't wait for that EA magic touch in Splatoon! :P

 

[Saber]

Oh yeah. I need to REALLY clarify this point because it seems to be somewhat lost... I said the EA/Activision as...like...a joke? Pretty obviously so?

But the underlying point remains that Nintendo nails the game part of the games but misses on obvious features. I only brought EA/Activision into it (again, as a clear joke) because they're the opposite. They get the obvious features, but their games are whatever.

Do I think Nintendo needs a team that specifically checks games and says stuff like, "Hey, this shooter should let you switch loadouts between games"? Yeah. But (and I apparently cannot say this enough) I don't actually think they should be former EA or Activision employees. That part was a joke. Even if it wasn't, the joke-role I gave them would have nothing to do with actual game design, which I've said in two previous posts.

So again:

Not serious: Nintendo should hire former EA or Activision employees.
Serious: Nintendo needs a team that makes sure certain features make it into their online games. This team should have nothing to do with the gameplay itself. If this team does already exist (probably, it does), then some sort of overhaul is needed.



If they were available from the start, I'd pay a dollar per gun to play with all my mains from day one, hahaha. You may actually be onto something here. I take back saying that I was joking about hiring former EA employees. Let's get them in here. Try to tell me you wouldn't pay a dollar right now to splat some fools with a custom range blaster.

Pay? Pay?! Free Hydra Splatling before 2018/December 2017 or we riot!
View attachment 5823

Spending additional money on games that are 60 dollars to begin with is like
View attachment 5824

Though honestly I prefer eithe free or even having to paying for a new map (or a new gamemode......plz?) over getting weapons from a dread lootbox. Imagine that.....


Though again with all brought up I thought I'd bring up
Matchmaking is really unbalanced but honestly wih the game not penalizing you for bad matchups I can live with at least until the finally figure it out.
swapping weapons most game have preset loadout for that but thanks to gear each weapon you use might have an entirely unique gear setups. Meaning player could end up wasting time restocking gear and cause more problems
The big problem is desync and d/c issues honestly this is I am hoping will be handled now that they will be expecting us to pay...or at least keep really bad laggers to a minimum.

 

[Spaceswitchmars]

Though honestly I prefer eithe free or even having to paying for a new map (or a new gamemode......plz?) over getting weapons from a dread lootbox. Imagine that.....


Though again with all brought up I thought I'd bring up
Matchmaking is really unbalanced but honestly wih the game not penalizing you for bad matchups I can live with at least until the finally figure it out.
swapping weapons most game have preset loadout for that but thanks to gear each weapon you use might have an entirely unique gear setups. Meaning player could end up wasting time restocking gear and cause more problems
The big problem is desync and d/c issues honestly this is I am hoping will be handled now that they will be expecting us to pay...or at least keep really bad laggers to a minimum.

I'm impatient, so I'd pay tons of money to play weapons/modes today instead of waiting, but I'm actually glad they don't give me that option. I'd do it immediately, but that's only because I'm a bad decision maker.

The between-games thing is simple... Look at Arms, you pick three different arms you want to use, and you pick them before the match. Let us build five loadouts to choose from AFTER we see what map we get, and let us pick that loadout. Heck, even before we see the map if we really want that.

However, if they didn't waste so much time getting us from the game ending to the lobby (it's an insane amount of time that we can't even click through), we'd have more than enough time between matches to change up weapons/gear.

I am certain Nintendo is going to say "nah" to all of this, and it isn't game breaking, but it is crazy.

The server/tickrate stuff isn't really a Splatoon-specific thing. It's a... we're about to pay for the online services so we expect just a little bit more kind of thing, which I've seen most people here echo as an issue.

What's really lame is that Splatoon is maybe the most fun competitive shooter to watch, yet these things that are almost ancillary to the game itself will be the biggest thing holding it back on the competitive scene. I mean, it's a game where you can glance up on the screen and pretty much know how the match is going up to that point. The ink/map control dynamic makes it easy to tell who is most in control and who is where. The action is fast and the games are short, but it's still very easy to follow. It's awesome. If these things that have nothing to do with actual gameplay are what holds it back, that would be sad.

The answers to the game's few problems are mostly simple (even if the implementation might be more difficult). Nintendo is very new to online shooters compared to other companies, so I personally cut them slack. My fear isn't about how much I'll continue to play the game but how much others, who aren't as borderline insane obsessed as I am, will play.

 

[Elecmaw]

Oh yeah. I need to REALLY clarify this point because it seems to be somewhat lost... I said the EA/Activision as...like...a joke? Pretty obviously so?

But the underlying point remains that Nintendo nails the game part of the games but misses on obvious features. I only brought EA/Activision into it (again, as a clear joke) because they're the opposite. They get the obvious features, but their games are whatever.

Do I think Nintendo needs a team that specifically checks games and says stuff like, "Hey, this shooter should let you switch loadouts between games"? Yeah. But (and I apparently cannot say this enough) I don't actually think they should be former EA or Activision employees. That part was a joke. Even if it wasn't, the joke-role I gave them would have nothing to do with actual game design, which I've said in two previous posts.

So again:

Not serious: Nintendo should hire former EA or Activision employees.
Serious: Nintendo needs a team that makes sure certain features make it into their online games. This team should have nothing to do with the gameplay itself. If this team does already exist (probably, it does), then some sort of overhaul is needed.

Nowhere in my post did i imply that they should hire specifically former EA/Activision employees, it's just that as is Nintendo has been running behind with it's competitors (Xbox/PS) when it comes to stuff like online functionality and that they could learn from them.

 

[J'Wiz]

I have a better idea. Let's let Capcom have a hand at Splatoon 2, so we'll have to rebuy the game every so often to get all of the new maps and weapons.

The new Jet Squelcher is snazzy. I personally like the Burst Bomb and Stingray combo.

 

[Ansible]

So it's a protection racket that forces you to keep spending money that prevents you from spending money, and the kids launder it for their father, and every little thing you want to do that should be considered part of the basic transaction is actually an add-on.

I'm surprised he doesn't have a relation working in the camper/RV/automobile business during the pocket camper direct. Unless, one of those birds married into his family!

The answers to the game's few problems are mostly simple (even if the implementation might be more difficult). Nintendo is very new to online shooters compared to other companies, so I personally cut them slack. My fear isn't about how much I'll continue to play the game but how much others, who aren't as borderline insane obsessed as I am, will play.

I may not cut them as much slack, but I'm still rowing in that same boat as well.

The new Jet Squelcher is snazzy. I personally like the Burst Bomb and Stingray combo.

Surprised it was out so early. Wonder if this means weapon releases and new maps will get launched on Thursdays now.

 

[Lonely_Dolphin]

It's like playing Super Mario but the pits aren't actually where they look like they are, so you fall through the floor but can stand on the pits. They'd never ship that.

O rly!?

A game can still be good even if it's not 100% perfect and flawless, either that or no game is good then. Even with it's flaws Splatoon works well enough for the majority to agree that it is indeed good.

 

[Award]

I'm impatient, so I'd pay tons of money to play weapons/modes today instead of waiting, but I'm actually glad they don't give me that option. I'd do it immediately, but that's only because I'm a bad decision maker.

The between-games thing is simple... Look at Arms, you pick three different arms you want to use, and you pick them before the match. Let us build five loadouts to choose from AFTER we see what map we get, and let us pick that loadout. Heck, even before we see the map if we really want that.

However, if they didn't waste so much time getting us from the game ending to the lobby (it's an insane amount of time that we can't even click through), we'd have more than enough time between matches to change up weapons/gear.

I am certain Nintendo is going to say "nah" to all of this, and it isn't game breaking, but it is crazy.

The server/tickrate stuff isn't really a Splatoon-specific thing. It's a... we're about to pay for the online services so we expect just a little bit more kind of thing, which I've seen most people here echo as an issue.

What's really lame is that Splatoon is maybe the most fun competitive shooter to watch, yet these things that are almost ancillary to the game itself will be the biggest thing holding it back on the competitive scene. I mean, it's a game where you can glance up on the screen and pretty much know how the match is going up to that point. The ink/map control dynamic makes it easy to tell who is most in control and who is where. The action is fast and the games are short, but it's still very easy to follow. It's awesome. If these things that have nothing to do with actual gameplay are what holds it back, that would be sad.

The answers to the game's few problems are mostly simple (even if the implementation might be more difficult). Nintendo is very new to online shooters compared to other companies, so I personally cut them slack. My fear isn't about how much I'll continue to play the game but how much others, who aren't as borderline insane obsessed as I am, will play.

Unfortunately the lack of being able to switch weapons is not because of a technical limitation. The producer simply has in his mind that that's a core gameplay element and the game is somehow better because you can't switch. (Not Eguchi, the other producer that's the lead designer.) So it won't change not because it can't but simply that he likes it as it is now and thinks that's a principal design.

O rly!?

A game can still be good even if it's not 100% perfect and flawless, either that or no game is good then. Even with it's flaws Splatoon works well enough for the majority to agree that it is indeed good.

LOL. While the point is fair, a glitch is one thing. Never knowing exactly where ANY pits are in SMB3 is more like Splatoon!

 

[IHaveAToaster]

Hey guys what's going on in this threa-

"Technically Splatoon/2 is a bad game, but the gameplay is so fun we tend not to notice it's actually a really bad game :p"

"If you give game companies an inch they'll take all your money. There is no justifying ANY additional purchases in games that are 60 dollars to begin with."

"I have a better idea. Let's let Capcom have a hand at Splatoon 2, so we'll have to rebuy the game every so often to get all of the new maps and weapons."

Oh.

Oh boy, I was not expecting the thread to go in this direction...
Hey! It's the Jet Squelcher I actually like!

Spoiler

Damn it Ninty, stop trying to lure me away from Emblem Fortress: Ultra Despair Odyssey in Time.
Let some of the other games have their turn!

Anyone who doesn't like Walleye Warehouse is clearly an enemy to humankind and should be thrown in prison for life. The FBI should be at your door shortly.

And here I thought the FBI had come to wish me a happy birthday...