Splatoon 2: Find Out What's Fresh! (General Discussion)

What are you most excited about for Splatoon 2?

  • New Weapons

    Votes: 8 7.9%
  • New Stages

    Votes: 5 5.0%
  • New Specials

    Votes: 3 3.0%
  • New Character Customization Options

    Votes: 16 15.8%
  • New Modes

    Votes: 9 8.9%
  • The Return of Old Stuff (Stages, Weapons, etc.)

    Votes: 5 5.0%
  • EVERYTHING!!!

    Votes: 55 54.5%

  • Total voters
    101
  • Poll closed .

Dessgeega

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I don't think I agree with you. I think all of the new stages have a pretty decent aesthetic, even if they have a simpler layout. Frankly a simpler layout I find to be better for a competitive experience.
The aesthetic is fine. Hell, it makes stages more enjoyable than they'd normally be. But I swear that the developers took cues from Brutalist architecture designing these stages.
Not a curve to be found anywhere in the stage. Remove the fantastic grocery store textures and this layout is BLAND. You can do simple layouts without having the majority of stages have this blockiness.
 

Amarae

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Heh funny you mentioned because I absolutely love Mako Mart. I think it's pretty well designed for a newer map whereas most of them are just okay. Maybe it's just the old shooter experience speaking but I'm really not off put by a simple layout at all and generally actually appreciate it.
 

Dessgeega

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Heh funny you mentioned because I absolutely love Mako Mart. I think it's pretty well designed for a newer map whereas most of them are just okay. Maybe it's just the old shooter experience speaking but I'm really not off put by a simple layout at all and generally actually appreciate it.
I like MakoMart too, but the layout bugs me :P I feel that the returning stages (aside from Moray and Port, egh) have more interesting things going on in their designs, if just because everything isn't some manner of cube or rectangle.
 

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Well my favourite stage from Splat 1 was Walleye Warehouse and that stage is just one big rectangle with more rectangles inside of it so I guess all I can say is just that we don't have the same idea about stage design heh.
 

Mr.HawK

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I was talking to people about this change and it basically sums up a few points:

-Pit RM is one of the only maps that has such a massive distance between the spawn and the goal podium meaning you only really need to get it past the 40-50 mark in order to essentially gain an easy knockout
-because the goal was so far away from spawn unlike other maps it's super hard for there to be any sort of counterplay once you get it to the 40 mark unless you already have a charger in position to get a necessary kill. but by the time theyre already on the ramp they already have a massive lead simply because of how the map layout was used for that mode in particular
-because the new design is essentially exclusive to rainmaker on Pit this means that the devs acknowledge the massive positioning flaws with the spawns and goal podiums and are trying to rectify this issue by creating a design that still uses a main part of the map but also fits a design that is specifically built for rainmaker
-not all maps are built for every mode, there's bound to be a few outliers for each map/mode combination that just dont work because of the overall structure and layout of the maps. while sure you can easily add or take away items and objects that doesnt exactly mean it's still balanced enough to be a viable
-Blackbelly RM has a similar issue, on one of the main callout sheets there is a specific pathway you have to push through so that the rainmaker doesnt instantly get dunked and since people would always use that straight shot area it was considered suicidal to use that pathway, which ironically enough, is why that pathway is called "suicide"

So overall, the changes to the rainmaker part of piranha pit are genuinely welcoming considering how poorly thought out Pit RM was in splatoon 1, i'm personally glad to see them consider map design changes to fit certain modes instead of forcing a mode to conform to the design of the map.

The aesthetic is fine. Hell, it makes stages more enjoyable than they'd normally be. But I swear that the developers took cues from Brutalist architecture designing these stages.
Not a curve to be found anywhere in the stage. Remove the fantastic grocery store textures and this layout is BLAND. You can do simple layouts without having the majority of stages have this blockiness.
Just to add to this, lets compare and contrast here. The image i have right here is what the new Pit RM looks like on the map pop up menu
 

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This is my first time actually looking at a callouts map for Splatoon 2 and now that I have I'm curious about why Maze was changed to Grass?
 

Mr.HawK

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This is my first time actually looking at a callouts map for Splatoon 2 and now that I have I'm curious about why Maze was changed to Grass?
not actually sure, I think it's because the overall layout in that area specifically was changed
 

Amarae

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In that particular area? Not much, not really. It's a bit spacier, but the layout is the same otherwise, only proportionally different.
 

Elecmaw

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One thing i liked about the stages in S1 is that the tended to have something unique to them. Blackbelly had the half-pipes and curved terrain, Bluefin had the stage split in half at the center, triggerfish was two adjacent roads next to one another, arowana had everything focused on the center. In a sense, they had something different to them without feeling gimmicky.

I know it's dangerous to keep repeating stuff, but the majority of Splatoon 2 stages are the same except the BAWKSES are shuffled around a bit differently. Stages also tend to start up high, then the area around the center is lower, then the actual center itself is raised again. It makes for a more balanced experience but also one that's way more bland.

One of the key features of Piranha was that your spawn is right next to the enemy. Seeing that changed to become another bland collection of boxes is a bit disappointing, to say in the least.
 

MINKUKEL

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I agree that Splatoon 1's stages are a bit more creative with their overall layout, but I think that, despite Splatoon 2's more conservative designs, they don't play out similar to one another.

And Splatoon 1 has some pretty unbalanced stages. 90% of the time, in Moray Towers the only area where anything happened was the middle. Usually at the end of a match the main slopes were both the corresponding team's color and so it came down to the rather small middle to determine who wins. Camp Triggerfish had an original idea (the stage being sort of a one-way roundabout design), but that made for some very crapshoot matches. Though it should be said that most of the time, these can be fixed pretty easily, and in the case of Moray Towers, they already improved on it.

But still, if I think of the best S1 stages, outside of Mahi Mahi, they are the more 'normal' designs, like Hammerhead and Flounder.
 

Mr.HawK

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I agree that Splatoon 1's stages are a bit more creative with their overall layout, but I think that, despite Splatoon 2's more conservative designs, they don't play out similar to one another.

And Splatoon 1 has some pretty unbalanced stages. 90% of the time, in Moray Towers the only area where anything happened was the middle. Usually at the end of a match the main slopes were both the corresponding team's color and so it came down to the rather small middle to determine who wins. Camp Triggerfish had an original idea (the stage being sort of a one-way roundabout design), but that made for some very crapshoot matches. Though it should be said that most of the time, these can be fixed pretty easily, and in the case of Moray Towers, they already improved on it.

But still, if I think of the best S1 stages, outside of Mahi Mahi, they are the more 'normal' designs, like Hammerhead and Flounder.
Having stage gimmicks in some of these stages or just having a creative design isnt a horrible thing to have, it adds diversity in some sense. But i feel the issue boils down to how fair is the layout of the mode for each map? And this is a question that has too many answers to start off with right off the bat because of what "fair" means in the context of splatoon.

I'll use your example, Moray, for instance. In Splat1, SZ was a dual zone layout instead of the single zone layout that we used to have. Most people have jumped on the side of "this is bad" or vice versa. understandably, moray is a bit of a controversial stage because of how massive it is and how cut off the pathways are.
However in splat1 you had these instances:
-A dynamo could instacap either zone with a flick or two in relatively quick fashion
-the same could be said with inkstike
-the most efficient way to take the game would revolve around hard spawn camping because of how difficult it is to aggreesively push on that map alone
-splat1 favored defensiveness for a long time, so the above instances would have been elevated barring the QRSJ meta in late period splat1

Deciding where the objective goes on a map that doesnt change is a very complicated thing to do because of how the main meat of the game changes to conform to that layout. The only way to conform most of the time is by running the same thing as the team that's abusing the flawed placements and designs of the map combo. Moray and pit arent the only ones, Saltspray grants an advantage to right-side peaking if you end up on the left-most spawn, blackbelly RM is super notorious because of that "suicide" pathway being the most optimal way to score a large lead in a very short time span, Bluefin zones (ironically enough) was a map that would have been better off a 2 zone map but the presence of eliters still made it hard to actually push through to the lowest area of the map, Urchin underpass as a whole was completely unplayable because the main entry to mid was an incredibly small choke and the other 2 paths were easily camped which is one of the reasons that map was also taken off the live servers and completely reworked.

Not every map in splatoon can establish a fair balance in object placement per mode, if there's ever a reason to completely block off a certain section of the map because you want to make it harder to pass through certain areas you're better off just re-designing that section of the map or getting rid of it completely for the sake of balanced design. Urchin and pit are the only two maps to see this happen to them because of blatantly glaring issues, I would not be surprised if in the hypothetical Splatoon 3 we get differing layouts for a majority of maps. Which all things considered, would be concerning due to how many maps we already have. I would not at all be against having maps designed only for one mode however, I think linear and symmetrical designs in an arena style layout is fine, but with objective based modes it has shown to be highly problematic to consistently keep this design philosophy intact.
 

Cyan

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I'm not surprised by what's happened to Piranha Pit Rainmaker, that map/mode combination was used 4 or 5 times in rotation before being permanently pulled off rotation. They moved the spawn and the Rainmaker pod/base was in a smart spot, but everyone knows that the spawn point often placed you behind a Rainmaker push and there was no way to catch them before a dunk happened. This makes the map look incredibly stupid but at least makes Rainmaker semi-playable on this map (who knows what issues it may or may not have now). Speaking of banned rotations, has Blackbelly RM been pulled off on Splatoon 2? I haven't seen it for ages but then again I don't play the game daily or check rotations daily.

I've already aired my grievances out on Splatoon 2's copy/paste box approach to map designs, so I won't repeat those again. Splatoon 1 had some great map design, of course some maps worked rather poorly (Urchin, Bluefin, Moray at times, Piranha etc.) but the way most were designed gave rather interesting tactics and strategies to win. I never had many stalemates in Moray on the original asides from Splat Zones, and well having played that version of Moray more recently (I booted up Splatoon 1 to compare Mini Splatling charge times, then played for what the heck :P) I much prefer how fights happen on that Splat Zones version. You either sneak across mid to take the enemies zone or you defend yours to within an inch of your life. Of course in the popular days of Splatoon 1 you would get instances of one team camping the entire match once they secured both zones, but the ones where you were lucky to score 20 points are amazing. You had to keep your eye on the ball and make sure you succeeded in attacking or defending.

That aside I actually now realise how badly Splatoon 1 drops frames. It did it an awful lot during my brief revisit with the game. It seemed rare to reach a perfect 60 without stutters or drops, and bomb rushes really made the game fall to around 40FPS, which affected whether you could get a kill or die. If your game drops frames and the enemy doesn't they kill you faster because the game is running full speed for them. Oh and for Ranked, S+ takes quite a while to fill lobbies, and even timeouts a fair bit, but S still seems fine and functioning, so the game is definitely quieter but still perfectly playable. I can agree with the changes to Bomb Rush when it became Bomb Launcher (where the last bombs fill up your special) as I ran 1 main 3 subs of Special Charge Up and scored 2745p on Piranha with the Splash with the 1000p win bonus lol, it spammed way to easily which is why Neo Splash now has a special charge of 200p for Suction Bomb Launcher :P

Oh and it's definitely become a haven for Carbon players, I saw so many of those lol.
 

MINKUKEL

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That aside I actually now realise how badly Splatoon 1 drops frames. It did it an awful lot during my brief revisit with the game.
Yeah, that's something that I had kinda forgotten about. I've been playing S1 on and off again for the last few weeks, and it's weird to see how much better looking S2 is, and how much better the general the performance is.

That, and it's a much more casual experience. Maybe it's because people have moved on to S2. Though I still see lots of high-lvl players and it never takes long to find enough players for a lobby, so who knows. All I know is that S2's Turf Wars can become pretty damn intense, sometimes bordering on Salmon Run craziness if you compare them to S1.

I was also astounded to see how better my wardrobe is in S2. I have so much choice between perfect gear now, whereas going back to S1, I mostly use the same gear for every weapon (some ISM and some special-related stuff) because there's barely anything else I got. It's the grey headphones, red Takoroka shirt and those orange arrows shoes, and I've grown so fond of them that they were the first things I upgraded in S2. Though it's all-ISM, so I never use it as one set, because no weapons need that much ISM.
 

MINKUKEL

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Looks like Piranha Pit is almost upon us.

EDIT: And it also looks like I have no clue how to properly embed a Tweet in a post.
 

Leronne

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EDIT: And it also looks like I have no clue how to properly embed a Tweet in a post.
It's really just copying and pasting the tweet link lol

We're also getting the sorella brella. Subs autobomb and special splatbomb launcher.
 

MINKUKEL

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Yeah, that's what I did, but it looked like garbage.

Cool to see the Sorella Brella, but I just can't find myself enjoying the Splat Brella anymore after the Undercover Brella came out. That has to be the one and only weapon that is made completely obsolete IMO by another weapon. Well, that, and the Splatterscope is completely useless.
 

the

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Ooh, cool. Isn’t that kit the first one with bombs + bomb launcher?
I think one of the aerosprays has suction bombs + curling launcher. But there definitely aren’t many of this type of set!

I’m kinda bummed that the previously datamined toxic mist was switched to autobomb (which i’m not a fan of) but i’ll still give it a try! I’ll never know if an autobomb weapon will click with me unless I check it out.
 

InklingJoe

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new Brella... Woomy...

I'm not a huge fan of bomb launcher ults, but maybe it's time I sit down and give a fair shot at learning one.
 

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