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THE HARD DATA: Guns, Subs, Specials, and Abilities - Range, DPS, and more

Soul Train

Full Squid
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May 30, 2015
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JSXian
I think you should measure it instead in percent of tank used per second as opposed to per shot
That's already in the sheet, at the right. But I can add the chart to the appropriate tab.

@UnLucky, I haven't spent serious testing time with any abilities other than Damage+ and Defense+, so I'm not surprised that there are exceptions and errors in the placeholders there now. But your data is very helpful! Can you verify/test it any further? I'll put it in there and credit you if you can.
 

UnLucky

Semi-Pro Squid
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
80
Alright, I intentionally died at max special gauge with various equipment to see how much I'd lose, and here are my findings:


The 2nd to last one just has 1 sub Special Saver on it, the rest don't have any apart from the main stat which is clearly visible. To hopefully make it easier to discern exactly how much savings we're talking about, I added a little compass and rotated the gauge by 45 degrees. It doesn't really align perfectly, but the player's guide states you lose normally 50% of your bar on death.

Not entirely sure how to pin down the specifics, but using angle shenanigans, I've determined the benefits are roughly:
1sub: 4.9~5.2%
1main: 15.5~16%
2main: 28~28.5%
3main: 38~38.5%

As in, with 3 main Special Saver abilities equipped, dying with a full meter will leave you with up to 88.5% of your bar remaining, or an 11.5% penalty rather than 50%. The guide claims you can completely eliminate the penalty altogether, but not sure if that requires every single slot filled or if you would reach that point sooner.
 

UnLucky

Semi-Pro Squid
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
80
This video was posted in another thread, so I won't bother testing Quick Respawn myself.

However, I'm quite certain the default respawn time is 9 seconds, not 10.3 as shown in the video. The player's guide states as such, and it really appears as if they should be able to move around that point in the video as well. Whenever I try to time it, I always fall short of 9 (more like 8.7ish) so there's no way it takes 10 seconds to revive.

Using both sources, that makes the values for Quick Respawn:
1sub: 0.46s
1main: 1.45s
2main: 2.70s
3main: 4.00s

With the last figure from the guide as well, since they've stated "If fully stacked with three Quick Respawn abilities equipped, the splat cam portion is reduced to two seconds, for a five-second respawn time." Although it also says just one will reduce your respawn by 2 full seconds, so who knows how precise that is.
 

UnLucky

Semi-Pro Squid
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
80

Bomb Range Up, from left to right: no abilities, 1sub, 1main, 2main, 3main.
Tested by throwing a bomb from the default position in the testing area.

If we consider that as exactly on the line, then normally you can throw bombs slightly further than 3 lines. To be consistent, I'll call just barely resting on top of the line as exactly 3, so the regular throw is something like 3.05 lines.

Trying my best to match up pixels, I'd say the benefits per stat is around:
1sub: 0.15 (5%)
1main: 0.49 (16%)
2main: 0.89 (29%)
3main: 1.11 (36%)

Also of note is that throwing your bomb while jumping with 3 main Bomb Range Up abilities on lets you reach 5 lines away, killing the 2nd test dummy. Without any abilities, jumping gives you roughly the same increase as one main ability. While aiming slightly upwards does increase your distance (roughly that of a sub ability), it does not seem to actually help at all when jumping as well. Optimal bomb distance is achieved with a camera reset and jumping, assuming nothing gets in the way.
 
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WhiteKnight

Inkling
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
8
In regards to 3 main damage ups not reducing shots to kill, would this only be true for firing range dummies? Since they don't take damage from standing in opponent ink the way that real players do.

For example, if you stack 3 main damage ups on the dual squelcher each shot does 33.3 damage. Which means you would be able to kill them in 3 shots if they take just .01 damage from standing in your ink at some point during those shots. (Which could happen since when you fire at them you create ink at their feet)

It's possible that I'm missing something since I haven't tested this yet myself. I just thought I would bring it up. But all in all great thread! The research is very much appreciated.
 

Soul Train

Full Squid
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May 30, 2015
Messages
39
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JSXian
@UnLucky, you're awesome. Great work, I'm adding it to the doc now and will credit you. Thanks for taking the time to do that, I know it took a lot of matches.

@WhiteKnight that's a good thought, and if you can figure out a way, worth testing at least once - have a friend stand still online, shoot at their feet three times, and see when they die. Of course maybe the in-game two-player mode could be used, I haven't touched that yet.
 

PHYTO-1

Pro Squid
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
Messages
124
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PHYTO-1
@UnLucky, you're awesome. Great work, I'm adding it to the doc now and will credit you. Thanks for taking the time to do that, I know it took a lot of matches.

@WhiteKnight that's a good thought, and if you can figure out a way, worth testing at least once - have a friend stand still online, shoot at their feet three times, and see when they die. Of course maybe the in-game two-player mode could be used, I haven't touched that yet.
dont bother touching it. you can only use predetermined sets with weapons and outfit already chosen. i also dont think abilities come into play there.

so unless you want to test out like 6 weapons then might be worth a try
 

UnLucky

Semi-Pro Squid
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
80
Hm, not sure of the best way to measure Ink Saver (Main). I tried a similar test to Ink Saver (Sub) by grabbing the E-Liter and measuring how much was left in the tank after 3-4 shots.

With that I get a difference of:

1sub: 3.54%
1main: 11.81%
2main: 21.73%
3main: 29.72%

So the 12% figure for 1 main is probably correct, but I doubt it stacks to 36% so neatly without any diminishing returns. The cap is supposedly 40% (so says the guide book), so that's extremely close with just 3 mains. I feel 12%, 22%, and 30% are more realistic.

Some brief testing on Run/Swim Speed give me very similar numbers to what you have already, but Ninja Squid is by no means a -20% penalty. It's more like -2%, or more or less counteracts one sub ability. Not even sure if the penalty affects Kraken, but the bonus definitely does.

Similarly, Stealth Jump is more like -1.6% penalty rather than -16% as you have there. It's hardly noticeable, and looks to be even less than a sub ability. Definitely need to revisit this with more precise timing.

I also shouldn't actively test Quick Respawn instead of recording it first. Sorry guys, those matches were a lot worse than the Special Saver ones I did.
Also just finished an initial take on Ground Inked per Second, measured by the Points measured in a Turf War match. Note that these are a FIRST take, I need a more testing here...however I am confident in the overall shape of the data. Added some interesting charts to the appropriate tab, see one below. Note: I always format the chart so the upper-right is best. So less % of tank used per shot and more ground inked per second here is best.


Interesting findings:
  • The top few guns do pretty well cover the large majority of guns I see on Turf War.
  • Poor Blasters. The worst inking guns of the game.
  • The .96 Gal is depressingly inefficient.
  • The Splattershot Pro, while the fourth least efficient, is still very much in the main pack.
  • Despite its greater range, the Jet Squelcher doesn't actually cover much more ground per second than its faster-firing Dual Squelcher. Conclusion: use the Jet for KOs, and the Dual for inking.
OH yeah, something I've been meaning to ask, shouldn't this be "% Tank Used per Second" to match the "Ground Inked per Second"? I feel that would make for a better comparison. That, or "Ground Inked per Shot"? I would think it'd flip Splattershot Pro and .96 Gal around, which goes against two of your observations.

Splattershot Pro shoots faster and costs less per shot, while .96 Gal is slower but costs more per shot. However, you have the .96 Gal overall draining slower than the Pro, so if they really cover about the same amount of ground in the same amount of time, wouldn't the Gal be the better choice?

Actually how are those values calculated anyway? 40 shots till empty * 5% each = 200%? 5.3 shots per second * 5% = 10.60%?? I think your values for the Splash-o-matic and .96 Gal are double what they should be (or something else is half as much?)
 

Casperr

Full Squid
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
46
I've managed to get an item with a main Damage Up AND a sub Damage Up. I can confirm that 3 main Damage Up + 1 sub DOES have a greater affect than 3 mains.

Does this count for all stackable abilities? Probably.
Does this count for 3 main +1 sub maximum or 3 main +3 sub or even 3 main +9 sub? Not sure
 

Soul Train

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May 30, 2015
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JSXian
I've managed to get an item with a main Damage Up AND a sub Damage Up. I can confirm that 3 main Damage Up + 1 sub DOES have a greater affect than 3 mains.

Does this count for all stackable abilities? Probably.
Does this count for 3 main +1 sub maximum or 3 main +3 sub or even 3 main +9 sub? Not sure
Awesome! Can you do me a quick favor: equip the 3 damage up Mains + 1 damage sub, a Splattershot Pro, and tell me how much damage it does. If it still takes 3 shots to kill (does 33.3 per shot), then it's a hard cap.

@UnLucky, with Ink Saver and Ninja Squid I haven't hard tested yet, those were all initial placeholder numbers. Will do my own tests later and compare to your numbers (which I'll insert in the doc for now).

Ground Inked per Second is not an easy number to come by, and as I said in that post all numbers there are first drafts. There are a lot of ways to measure it, and I wanted to test all of them for accuracy's sake. Apart from a capture card, I have a few ideas.
  • Idea #1: measure time to fill one special gauge (which takes 180p to fill, divide by the time and you have ground inked per second).
  • Problem: how to ensure maximized time for special gauge fill? Technically there is a perfect Ground Inked per Second, but that's almost impossible to achieve realistically in a match/firing range. But perhaps we could measure a more realistic Ground Inked per Second, by starting on the same spot in the firing range and following a set pattern, over a large number of trials. That's what I did with those initial numbers, and is why they're...initial.
  • Idea #2: in Turf War, find a large empty space and time a few seconds of moving fire.
  • Problem: precision (capture card?) and time investment.
  • Idea #3: determine points obtained per shot, multiply by fire rate.
  • Problem: I found that ink splatters per shot are not consistent. In fact, depending on the gun, they can leave 1-3 ink spots seemingly at random. One ink spot appears at max range, another spot drops somewhere between that final spot and the player, and a final spot randomly shows up under the player. Averaging this would be dangerous as well, as I'm not sure it's consistent across all guns. Significantly more testing needed.
 

UnLucky

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Jun 9, 2015
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@Soul Train, I realize the whole ground inked figures are hard to come by, but you have "% Tank Used per Second" already. Even if "Ground Inked per Second" needs more testing, you have some values you can use.

Similarly, KO Time vs Ink per Shot doesn't make much sense, either. All the weapons take differing amounts of shots to kill, so the faster weapons get ranked way too high because they also cost less per shot as well. Wouldn't you like to know the amount of ink it would take to splat someone? That would make the Blaster much better than the .96 Gal, the .52 Gal is the absolute best in both categories, Jet Squelcher drops way down, and Aerospray goes down a bit compared to Splattershot/Jr. as well.

Even just % Tank per Second can show a reasonable trend against KO time. That, or Damage per Shot vs Ink per Shot, but that's already covered by Damage per % Ink.

Like my complaint here is that I'm not sure what these two charts are actually supposed to convey. Who cares about the cost per shot if you're covering more ground and using less ink in the same time as another weapon? I don't think it's showing what's really important.
 

WhiteKnight

Inkling
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
8
So I tested my theory about ink damage being able to reduce shots to kill. I used the new L-3 Nozzlenose with 3 main damage ups, since that gun also deals 33.3 damage in 3 shots and ONLY 3 shots due to the fact that its semi-automatic, making it easier to judge. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like ink damage comes in to play, so its still 4 shots to kill with this weapon.

My new theory (Though perhaps the following is already known, forgive me if that's the case) is that ink damage isn't really straight up damage. As we know, enemy ink applies 50 damage over 3 seconds assuming you don't have ink resistance shoes on. However, standing in ink can never kill you. I'm guessing that ink damage can only ever take your health down to 50, no further. So if you have 20 damage and stank in enemy ink, the ink will apply 30 damage over time because that's all it can do.

So when you fire at someone, once you do more than 50 damage, any ink you create at their feet applies a movement penalty but not a damage penalty because they've passed the threshold damage for when ink can act. So there really may be no way around the shots to kill numbers that Nintendo has put in the game.
 
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Casperr

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Jun 5, 2015
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46
I can confirm the shots to kill cap. Splattershot Jr caps at 33.3, Aerospray at 24.9, etc etc. It's even explained in the guide next to Damage Up that it can't increase a shots to kill. It seems like Damage Up exists purely to counter Defence Up
 

Soul Train

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JSXian
Nice work, @WhiteKnight and @Casperr. Appreciate the confirmation.

@UnLucky, let me clarify, I wasn't being clear. Changing data on the graphs is three clicks, nbd. But I'm interested in your thoughts on the three methods to get ground inked per second. Any other ideas, or on how to make them better?
 

UnLucky

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Jun 9, 2015
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Not too sure, so I didn't want to give an answer right away.

They might even do well to be separate statistics, something like DPS vs KO Time. As in, you'd find both the maximum possible area covered if every single one of your shots inks new ground, simply calculated by Ground Covered per Shot x Fire Rate (I think I would average ~10 shots to find that value) as well as the "actual" coverage in a given time period. As you've said, the optimal best case doesn't paint a realistic picture of how the guns may actually perform in a live match. The problem is you can't really determine what a realistic setting may be, as all maps have a combination of flat open areas, turns and inclines, walls/grates/uninkable surfaces, or anything else that might make your gun perform better or worse than average.

I suppose the ideal situation would be if a member of the opposing team using the exact same weapon was matching your shots 1:1 right in front of you. That, or you have perfect control and accuracy to maximize the efficiency of your weapon.

Step back and think how this information would be used, and what people might want to know in order to compare the weapons and make informed choices on their desired loadouts. Players won't always be continuously firing their guns, overlapping shots on their own ink and wasting time, so testing ink coverage by walking and shooting in a straight line isn't a helpful statistic. But you can't exactly test the typical jump/shoot/swim combo, as that's a tactic to maximize distance covered and ground inked over an extended period by conserving ink, and not the true potential of their gun in any given second.

So do you want to know the unachievable absolute maximum potential of your gun, to know how it fares in quick bursts, or do you want to know how much of the map you'll cover throughout the course of a live Turf War? Revisiting DPS vs KO Time, nobody thinks they can kill 5 enemies every second with a .52 Gal, that's not what that number is saying at all. It's just that, when the opportunity arises, you can win a 1v1 fight faster than any other gun. That's what people want to know, not some "realistic" KDR potential with all sorts of variables factored in, although DPS does give you a general idea.

The complex stuff is best suited to charts and calculations between hard stats, so don't try to incorporate that into the raw data. Accuracy, fire rate, ink efficiency, and movement penalties will affect your "actual" ground coverage, so if you attempt to find a "realistic" inking potential in order to prevent faster/accurate guns from appearing better than they really are, players might doubly account for that and consider them worse than they really are. At least that's what I think.

Oh, also you can jump into an empty "real" stage if it's currently in rotation, but you'd have to do all your testing right there before they swap, and only if it's a relatively good map for testing in the first place. Gives you some more space without a team to worry about.
 

Detta

Inkling
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
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Dettadeus
Has anyone done extensive testing on the Disruptor subweapon? I see in the sub sheet it reduces movespeed, and it also reveals the enemy's position on your screen (idk about the map, haven't looked) for its duration so they can't really hide in their own ink, but could it affect ink efficiency, damage or other stats?
 

Wobbles

Inkling
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Oct 9, 2006
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5
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confetti720
I have a question regarding standing in enemy ink; let's say I've got a Splattershot Pro and somebody has stood in my ink for a moment. If they take enough damage from standing in Ink, would I *then* be able to 2-shot them with damage ups?

IE, Shot 1 hits, they're in my ink a little, they take damage from that plus the initial shot, and then the next shot kills. Is this possible?
 

PHYTO-1

Pro Squid
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Jun 8, 2015
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PHYTO-1
I have a question regarding standing in enemy ink; let's say I've got a Splattershot Pro and somebody has stood in my ink for a moment. If they take enough damage from standing in Ink, would I *then* be able to 2-shot them with damage ups?

IE, Shot 1 hits, they're in my ink a little, they take damage from that plus the initial shot, and then the next shot kills. Is this possible?
it would still be 3 shots. according to http://squidboards.com/threads/health-regeneration-enemy-ink-damage-mechanics.2688/#post-46352
 

Casperr

Full Squid
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
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Got an interesting tidbit from some testing. 3 sub Damage Ups do NOT equal the same as 1 main Damage Up.

.52 Gal Damage Ups:
Base: 52
1 sub: 53.5 (1.5 increase)
2 sub: 54.9 (1.4 increase)
3 sub: 56.2 (1.3 increase)
1 main: 56.7

This implies to me that diminishing returns are affecting sub abilities alone
 

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