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There's a lot more weapons that need buffs than nerfs imo. Back on topic though:
Blaster should get an increase in special points required to use Splashdown because like @The Salamander King said, it just works too well with the weapon since it's almost a guaranteed kill.
Dualie Squelchers should be left alone because despite being relatively good in solo queue, it has a hard time fitting in league battles because Point Sensors aren't that valuable because you can tell your teammates where someone is.
Sloshing Machine has dropped in usage and requires a decent learning curve to even use properly.
I'd focus on balancing the specials because they stem more problems than the weapons themselves and it's extremely hard to counter Ink Armor's/Splashdown's invincibility frames and Bubble Blower's bubbles at the moment. Those specials are one of the main reasons why N-ZAP/Forge/Splattershot/Blaster are common encounters.
There's a lot more weapons that need buffs than nerfs imo. Back on topic though:
Blaster should get an increase in special points required to use Splashdown because like @The Salamander King said, it just works too well with the weapon since it's almost a guaranteed kill.
Dualie Squelchers should be left alone because despite being relatively good in solo queue, it has a hard time fitting in league battles because Point Sensors aren't that valuable because you can tell your teammates where someone is.
Sloshing Machine has dropped in usage and requires a decent learning curve to even use properly.
I'd focus on balancing the specials because they stem more problems than the weapons themselves and it's extremely hard to counter Ink Armor's/Splashdown's invincibility frames and Bubble Blower's bubbles at the moment. Those specials are one of the main reasons why N-ZAP/Forge/Splattershot/Blaster are common encounters.
There are some interesting takes on these things by competitive players (mostly about splashdown). But I'll address sloshing machine first (already addressed DS). The sloshing machine has a huge learning curve imo. I've tried using it and it's difficult to get used to the mechanics of the thing. To get consistent with jump shots and getting directs all the time with the way it works is very difficult, which makes it deadly in the hands of a competitive player.
Now for splashdown, if you watch streams and videos, you'll see how well competitive players take down splashdowns. It's become muscle memory for many people to shut down specials the moment they even see a frame of it being used. It's for this reason people have actually died down on blaster usage (still very prevalent but not as much) and roller, as well as sshot. Again they are still very good weapons but it seems in their minds splashdown has become a little weak because of their skill exceeding splashdown if that's how you want to think about it. Often you see people getting into 1v1's one after another and never using splashdown because they'll get better results w/o it, and often times when they do use it in trouble they get shut down anyway.
Blaster and Slosher Machine should be nerfed. The Dualie Squelchers are good and irritating at times, but they're not overly good imo based on their overall meta relevance atm.
Blaster's issue is the Splashdown which essentially serves as a huge safety net for what is essentially the most agro weapon in the game. While Splashdown is cheap and a panic button, it really becomes ridiculous in the hands of weapons that can follow up with good chunks of damage. As is, I'd say it would be easier just to increase the Ink required for it for the Blaster.
The Sloshing Machine I listed not because it itself is OP, but because the Stingray should be nerfed. While I understand that changing a Special fundamentally changes the game, as is, the Special is far too oppressive. It stops any remote push, breaks formations with ease and it can easily be done all while avoiding any of its inherent flaws. As is, it just does too much.
Dualie Squelchers "Turret Mode" is almost half as long if not much shorter than any other Dualies, and it also fires almost instantly after the roll is complete too, and they do have the longest range of all Dualies.
I do not know what to nerf about it, so it can still be used as intended, and still not outclass any of the other Dualies.
Instead of making the DS’s rolls slower (which goes against the weapon’s niche, high painting and mobility at decent range) they should make it so you can only get 4 accurate shots out in turret mode. This means you have to be stupid accurate to get reliable kills after rolling.
Splashdowns can be easily countered with Clash Blasters, cause if you catch someone off guard with two shots, the next two shots can stop them from using the Splashdown overall, i complete forgot that's one of the reasons why i also main the Clashie, it helps against Splashdowns significantly.
I shut down a few splashdowns with the zimi for the first time yesterday. I really haven't denied very many at all. A few with the charger and a few lucky ones with blaster but never have I like processed it and snapped up so fast it felt pretty good.
Why nerf the Blasters? They have piss-poor ink coverage in comparison to every other class in the game, and botching one shot, once is enough to get into trouble with it, besides, if your team don't turf properly, blasters will have a hard time getting around, due to their weak coverage.
Why NOT nerf the Dualie Squelchers? Why even bother with a sniper quality weapon that can zip through enemy ink and take down long range weapons of their own, besides it almost seems they fire a lot faster a dodge too, making any other dualies absolete if they don't have the proper range.
In my opinion, nothing is wrong with the shooting part of the Dualie Squelchers, it's the fact that they got that weird mobility buff where it could dodge roll and still move. I mean Nintendo just can't get a clear idea of, these are the long ranged dualies, here are the high power dualies, here is the one with a high fire rate, and the Dualie Squelchers, Glooga Dualies, and the Dapple Dualies all have something that makes them worse in something else. So even though the Dualie Squelchers have long range, they don't have a lot of power, and the Glooga Dualies don't have a high fire rate. But guess what, Dualies now have their own mobility perk with the dodge rolls, and they work completely different on all of the dualies. The regular Dualies have the average double dodge roll, the Dapples have faster rolls, the Dualie Squelchers are able to move right after dodge rolls, the Gloogas do more damage after their dodge rolls and they are also slower, and the Tetras have that weird four dodge roll shoot while you are dodging thing. This leads to stats really not being balanced, because mobility is something completely different. So the Dapples are kind of broken, they have a high fire rate and damage, but with very short range. The during part of the weapon itself is balanced, but considering it has those really fast dodge rolls, which is something unique to them makes it kind of broken. When making Dualies Nintendo has to remeber all the stats of this new kind of weapon, and make sure all 4 stats (fire rate, power, range, mobility) all are balanced with each other. Like have a weapon that is good at killing but has bad dodge rolls. But instead we get weapons that are really good at killing and also have really good dodge rolls. When the Glooga Dualies were released it made me think, oh they probably fixed the problem by now, right? Nope. Now we have Dualies that are really bad at killing and also have the worst dodge rolls. This is a recipe for disaster, and why Dualies are so easily broken if Nintendo forgets about one part of the stats.
I shut down a few splashdowns with the zimi for the first time yesterday. I really haven't denied very many at all. A few with the charger and a few lucky ones with blaster but never have I like processed it and snapped up so fast it felt pretty good.
Actually I think it is easiest to take out Splashdown users with a Blaster, the impact just makes it easier for reaching up higher. But chargers can be good to if you have good timing. The Mini isn't the greatest at it but it is still do able.
Aiming up to take down Splashdown users is something I still have yet to do well. I need practice with this skill. Splashdowns still give me trouble here and there. :(
There are some interesting takes on these things by competitive players (mostly about splashdown). But I'll address sloshing machine first (already addressed DS). The sloshing machine has a huge learning curve imo. I've tried using it and it's difficult to get used to the mechanics of the thing. To get consistent with jump shots and getting directs all the time with the way it works is very difficult, which makes it deadly in the hands of a competitive player.
Now for splashdown, if you watch streams and videos, you'll see how well competitive players take down splashdowns. It's become muscle memory for many people to shut down specials the moment they even see a frame of it being used. It's for this reason people have actually died down on blaster usage (still very prevalent but not as much) and roller, as well as sshot. Again they are still very good weapons but it seems in their minds splashdown has become a little weak because of their skill exceeding splashdown if that's how you want to think about it. Often you see people getting into 1v1's one after another and never using splashdown because they'll get better results w/o it, and often times when they do use it in trouble they get shut down anyway.
I'm aware that it's possible to kill Splashdown users before they come down and I've done so many times, however the problem still lies in the fact that certain weapons are (usually) unable to kill them in time with short ranged/bad fire-rate weapons such as .96 Gal and Inkbrush. Even when not accounting for competitive play, people often use it as a panic button and still it's easy to get splatted if you're already damaged + some weapons can easily kill you after they use it such as the Blaster/Splattershot. Button mashing to win is just poor design IMO.
Another oddity is the strange invincibility frames and the game's lackluster tickrate doesn't help either. I've had moments where I played a charger and I clearly shot at the person while they were in the air at the start of the move, and they still took no damage. I just want the radius hitbox to be more accurate and visible and more frames to be able to hit the person when they use it on the ground. Nerfing these things won't ruin the special and it still would be useful for ambushing while super jumping.
I'm aware that it's possible to kill Splashdown users before they come down and I've done so many times, however the problem still lies in the fact that certain weapons are (usually) unable to kill them in time with short ranged/bad fire-rate weapons such as .96 Gal and Inkbrush. Even when not accounting for competitive play, people often use it as a panic button and still it's easy to get splatted if you're already damaged + some weapons can easily kill you after they use it such as the Blaster/Splattershot. Button mashing to win is just poor design IMO.
Another oddity is the strange invincibility frames and the game's lackluster tickrate doesn't help either. I've had moments where I played a charger and I clearly shot at the person while they were in the air at the start of the move, and they still took no damage. I just want the radius hitbox to be more accurate and visible and more frames to be able to hit the person when they use it on the ground. Nerfing these things won't ruin the special and it still would be useful for ambushing while super jumping.
I think there should be freeze frames after splashdown to prevent burst/blast follow-ups. That's all. And a less misleading circle when someone uses it. There was one time where I shot a splashdown, he got down and it painted, then he died. I'm still confused... Here
I think there should be freeze frames after splashdown to prevent burst/blast follow-ups. That's all. And a less misleading circle when someone uses it. There was one time where I shot a splashdown, he got down and it painted, then he died. I'm still confused... Here
That's actually the first time of a few others that I've hit the splashdown, they get it, then I get the kill. It couldn't have been someone else finishing the kill because it gave me the kill symbol. This clip is also weird b/c you can see the sploosh teleporting next to him. Weird stuff.
That's actually the first time of a few others that I've hit the splashdown, they get it, then I get the kill. It couldn't have been someone else finishing the kill because it gave me the kill symbol. This clip is also weird b/c you can see the sploosh teleporting next to him. Weird stuff.
That’s true about the kill symbol.
I would say lag but even then it’s weird the splashdown still inked, lag schould have delayed the kill at best but not let the splashdown activate.
Oh well, let’s hope wonky stuf like this doesn’t happen too often.
@Mar$el Precisely the problems I have with Splashdown! It is a move that works as an effective panic button partly because of the laggy nature of the game in general (Not knocking Splatoon for this. This is a thing in most online games.) and the misleading visual radius of the attack. Here's how it usually goes:
I provoke the Splashdown user.
Said Splashdown user proceeds to use Splashdown.
I don't have the time to get them as they hang in the air so I back off out of the visible radius.
I think there should be freeze frames after splashdown to prevent burst/blast follow-ups. That's all. And a less misleading circle when someone uses it. There was one time where I shot a splashdown, he got down and it painted, then he died. I'm still confused... Here
Yes the circle is so misleading, I have been way out of the way of the circle before and still gotten splatted. And the freeze frames after a Splashdown would be good, especially good as a Blaster nerf
I've been through all of the classic Splashdown problems just last night while practicing with the Sorella Brella. Let's go down the list:
Used as a panic button out of nowhere? Check.
Gotten by the idea there there are few to no frames of immobilization after using it? Check.
Misleading blast radius leading to more frustration and splats then I care to think about? Check and double check.
This special needs a rebalance so badly that it hurts. Literally, my poor Inkling is still limping a bit from all of the Splashdown abuse the other night.
I've been through all of the classic Splashdown problems just last night while practicing with the Sorella Brella. Let's go down the list:
Used as a panic button out of nowhere? Check.
Gotten by the idea there there are few to no frames of immobilization after using it? Check.
Misleading blast radius leading to more frustration and splats then I care to think about? Check and double check.
This special needs a rebalance so badly that it hurts. Literally, my poor Inkling is still limping a bit from all of the Splashdown abuse the other night.
While I do agree with all of this, I would like to note that the point of a panic button is to catch your opponent by surprise, and Nintendo can’t really do anything about it
While I do agree with all of this, I would like to note that the point of a panic button is to catch your opponent by surprise, and Nintendo can’t really do anything about it
Sloshing Machine does not need a nerf. Since most of it's utility is being a frontline slayer weapon with stingray, allowing it a good niche on most tower control and rainmaker maps. However, to get a stingray it needs 190p to charge. You might say to yourself, "190p isn't a long charge time".
However, to one of the worst painting weapons in the game, 190p is a huge burden to the sloshing machine's stingray. Which often makes sloshing machine users invest into their special with
taking some of their gear perks away if they want to be able to use their special consistently.
So no, sloshing machine doesn't need a nerf right now. The painting on the weapon is already pretty bad. It's Area of Effect damage is pretty wide, however, it takes a long time to kill a target with only indirect sloshes.
Dualie Squelchers for a nerf? Is this a meme?
The dualie squelchers are (in my opinion) at best average weapons, if not below average. Their best attribute is the dodge roll without any endlag. Which lets a dualie squelcher user run away from sloshers and blasters (two prominent threats in the current metagame).
However, with it's limiting kit and pitful 4 shot kill, the dualie squelchers are condemned to a support role on any team they're put on. And armed with point sensors and tentamissles, they excel at support gameplay.
However, a lone dualie squelcher is not going to be winning too many fights by themselves. And without frontline teammates to accent it's hardcore support, you miss out on the dualie squelchers point sensors and Tentamissle pressure.
The lack of Independence, and limiting combat capabilities keep these weapons far from OP. Even with an alternate kit, these dualies seem far from OP, since the main weapon is notoriously inaccurate and a 4 shot kill is a burden when it comes to combat.
The vanilla blaster. I will grant you this, this weapon is actually Overpowered right now. It's combination of splashdown + blaster shot makes it an incredible threat to close range targets. How threatening is this combo? It's so good that it makes any weapon with less range than the vanilla blaster pretty much unviable. (the only exception to this rule being dapple dualies) Splashdown + Blaster shot is an extremely good panic button and lets the blaster player be forgiven for a possible misplay. As a blaster indirect makes it impossible for bomb defense up to truly block against it.
With this combo, it mitigates the blaster's weakness of needing to aim precisely up close. The other two weaknesses (lack of paint and short range) do affect it. However, not having range isn't a bad thing in this game where the meta is mostly up close and personal.
That's not even the worst of the problem though. The part that makes vanilla blaster truly OP is how over centralizing it is. As it makes Luna rather pointless to run as the vanilla blaster can strafe just as fast, with more range, and a panic button. And the meta has seen a large shift in slosher deco and heavy splatling popularity, two weapons that counter it rather well with their range and painting ability.
However, what do we nerf on this weapon?
Since the custom blaster isn't extremely OP, with it's kit of autobomb and inkjet, I would refrain from nerfing the vanilla blaster as a main weapon. Just because the custom blaster feels nice and balanced right now.
And nerfing splashdown directly will hurt a lot of underused weapons (think of undercover brella, hydra, goo tuber, and the inkbrush), even though they're not in the best spot right now anyway.
So it's really the main weapon and special weapon coming together to make a strong combo here.
I think @Goolloom hit it right on the head, just increase the points to charge on the weapon. Mostly because the weapon can't paint much in the first place, and that would make the blaster player rely less on the combo if they're not getting the combo consistently. Or at least make it run some perks (like I mentioned with the sloshing machine earlier) in order for the vanilla blaster to gain specials consistently. For points to special, ideally I would nerf it to 200 points of special, but I could see a nerf to 190-220p range working out as well.
I've been playing the vanilla blaster since splat 2's release and these are definitely changes that will hopefully give way to other blasters into the meta. (mostly the Luna, Custom and Range Blaster)
At release, the vanilla blaster was actually kind of pathetic. The jump rng was insane, with your shots going all over the place while jumping (boy did I hate this). And it's ink consumption was nerfed as well. From 8% -> 10% (15 shots to 10 shots). Even though you could still use the combo, it was somewhat unreliable with the 40 damage minimum and splashdown was much easier to shutdown. For other blasters, custom blaster and rapid blaster saw more use than the vanilla blaster thanks to their specials, and thanks to the rapid's range. And the regular blaster was much better than the clash blaster at this time.
Going into 1.3.0
This was the game's first real meta shift and one of the biggest patches to date. Nerfing the tri slosher, inkjet and ink armor. And giving the vanilla blaster a massive buff to it's splashdown. (outer splashdown damage used to deal 40 damage instead of 55) Since custom blaster dropped out of the meta without a good inkjet, vanilla blaster secured the spot for best lethal blaster in 1.3.0.
However, vanilla blaster just didn't see the limelight yet. It couldn't perform well in the old baller meta, and it could not compete against the aerospray or L-3 taking over the map quickly. Plus with the rapid blaster still around, it would lose a lot of fights to it, thanks to the range. Not to mention, sloshing machine was the primary slaying weapon thanks to it's access to the newly buffed stingray.
1.4.0
1.4.0 was nothing special for the vanilla blaster, as it was the best lethal blaster going into it. And then, 10 days later, the devs finally released the beast. The range blaster had finally been released from it'ssplatoon 1 prison on October 21st 2017. As soon as I saw this weapon finally come out, I immediately dropped the vanilla blaster. And I imagine a lot of vanilla blaster players did the same as me.
The range blaster instantly took a hot spot in the meta, thanks to it's amazing killing potential, and ability to blend in with the meta's chip damage. So as a result, the vanilla blaster takes a backseat and isn't seen much. But it's rather well balanced and nothing was wrong with it.
2.1.0 and up
The change. The blaster got its movement speed buff, and along with the range blaster's list of nerfs (points to special, ink storm, and the health regen buff (an indirect nerf)) started to kill the range blaster out of the meta and gave the vanilla blaster a time to shine. And since then, the vanilla blaster hasn't seen much of a threat in this metagame.
With its main perk being the most forgiving slaying weapon around, it won't take much time and dedication to get the job done. After all, that's a common trend with many meta weapons in splatoon 2. "Low risk and High Reward". And unfortunately, the vanilla blaster embodies this well, allowing it to strive here.
Sorry if I over analyzed this, but I've been thinking about this for a while, and it's one of my main weapons. If you made it to here, you deserve a cookie or something.
I hope you get my reasoning (and even if you don't read it all), as to why these weapons do or don't need these changes.
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