What do you think is the best weapon in Splatoon?

[tux_peng]

N-Zap 89 for me, although I've been using the Aerospray MG lately

 

[JFL]

Outside of the usual suspects everyone knows (and uses) l'm going to throw a vote for a weapon l rarely see that is easily one of the strongest in the game: Octobrush Nouveau.

Seriously, l can't believe how good this thing is. lt's always been a very competent melee weapon but now with the Nouveau set it excels in every way. With some bomb range up perks you can easily pressure chargers even without your special, something the Carbon has a harder time to do. It's very mobile, powerful at all ranges, it covers turf brilliantly and charges the best special in the game super fast.

It tends to be ignored in favor of the regular rollers trio (Dynamo, Carbon and Krak on) but it's probably better than all of them (although tbf their roles aren't exactly the same).

 

[Inktruder]

I have a lot of favorite weapons in Splatoon, but two of my favorite are the N-ZAP '89 and the Dynamo Roller. The N-ZAP '89 is a strong weapon and is great for Ranked Battles, especially Splat Zones. The Dynamo Roller is also a strong weapon to use in any battle form of Ranked mode. The only thing is that you have to time your aim at opponents efficiently in order to get a lot of splats because the weapon itself is very slow.

 

[Award]

I completely agree that its range and damage capabilities aside, using most chargers really well still takes a lot of skill. They have a very steep learning curve for sure, especially because they just handle insanely differently from all the other weapons. The vanilla E-Liter is actually the one I most often have issues with. It is literally custom made for devastating snipes, and a sub that completely compensates close encounters. You're far away and within sight, snipe. You're getting too close, Attack Up Burst Bomb spam. And as situational as Echolocator can be, it is absolutely perfect for the E-Liter. The thing is designed to be a death machine lol, and as soon as the learning curve is overcome that's usually what those players become.

Yeah, I get killed by burst bombs by that kind of sniper a lot. It's annoying to all players, but when that happens to me when playing a closer weapon, when I consider myself a charger/eliter main, it's particularly annoying. "What's wrong, can't fire your main gun at close range? Cheater." :p That's still a great kit, but I do so love my increased mobility with beacons. Not all maps can use them well. Skatepark and mahi the beacons are almost useless. Too open and no good place to stash them the enemy won't take them out. But most other maps, when I try vanilla eliter I find I miss my jumping. Plus, in TC, that kraken lets the "lowly" sniper push the tower in a big way :D

I absolutely agree caps need to be set, arguably different caps depending on the weapon. It seems like far too many people are taking the troll route and spam-stacking one ability, through scumming or whatever else, to abuse one single mechanic.

Yeah, certain abilities it's become rediculous!

I also commend skilled Carbon users, because I definitely don't consider them OP but my god a really good Carbon user is horrifying. Their terrible range is really made up by the insane speed and stealth capabilities they have. One of the best combinations with Ninja Squid or Swim Speed Up. Zipping around the field like a cheetah assassin, it's crazy to behold when it works out lol.

I usually go for Ninja squid and a few swim speed ups, (one to counter ninja squid's speed reduction, and one or two to accelerate over normal.) It's great, but on a map like mahi, it'll also get you disoriented :p

. I consider myself to be a pretty skilled Dynamo user, but it's still very tough to adapt to certain situations with it. If you're used to weapons like E-Liters and Hydras though, it'll probably fit like a glove when you try it out haha. ;)

That's what I'm hoping for!

Outside of the usual suspects everyone knows (and uses) l'm going to throw a vote for a weapon l rarely see that is easily one of the strongest in the game: Octobrush Nouveau.

Seriously, l can't believe how good this thing is. lt's always been a very competent melee weapon but now with the Nouveau set it excels in every way. With some bomb range up perks you can easily pressure chargers even without your special, something the Carbon has a harder time to do. It's very mobile, powerful at all ranges, it covers turf brilliantly and charges the best special in the game super fast.

It tends to be ignored in favor of the regular rollers trio (Dynamo, Carbon and Krak on) but it's probably better than all of them (although tbf their roles aren't exactly the same).

Octobrush neuveau is one of my most feared weapons in the game. Worse than carbon, once it gets you there's no escape. A good octo user is truly scary. If it weren't a button masher in the worst way I'd play it a lot myself!

 

[HypernovaSoul]

Yeah, I get killed by burst bombs by that kind of sniper a lot. It's annoying to all players, but when that happens to me when playing a closer weapon, when I consider myself a charger/eliter main, it's particularly annoying. "What's wrong, can't fire your main gun at close range? Cheater." :p That's still a great kit, but I do so love my increased mobility with beacons. Not all maps can use them well. Skatepark and mahi the beacons are almost useless. Too open and no good place to stash them the enemy won't take them out. But most other maps, when I try vanilla eliter I find I miss my jumping. Plus, in TC, that kraken lets the "lowly" sniper push the tower in a big way :D

This is mostly why I consider E-Liter the primary OP charger, its range and easy damage stacking combined with overly reliable close quarters options makes it a little ridiculous. I can definitely see wanting the beacons as a charger user, and that's in general probably a more balanced set for actual sniping. There are certain Specials I really don't understand having on a charger (in what situation would a Bubbler be that beneficial to a sniper, aside from brief protection while sniping...? They rarely position themselves to share it, and they're sitting ducks the second it ends). Echolocator and Killer Wail I think are the best-suited Specials for snipers. Kraken is at least a bit more versatile for closing in when needed though.

I usually go for Ninja squid and a few swim speed ups, (one to counter ninja squid's speed reduction, and one or two to accelerate over normal.) It's great, but on a map like mahi, it'll also get you disoriented :p

The comparison between Ninja Squid and Swim Speed Up I've seen mentioned on the forums a couple times; I was given a recommendation to run SSU *instead* of NS, but Ninja Squid has allowed me a ridiculous amount of stealth splats and safe retreats. I don't imagine ever wanting to go without it at this point lol. I do agree though, SSU subs are solid for helping counter the speed reduction.

Octobrush neuveau is one of my most feared weapons in the game. Worse than carbon, once it gets you there's no escape. A good octo user is truly scary. If it weren't a button masher in the worst way I'd play it a lot myself!

Ahhh, my trusty Octobrush Nouveau. I adore it. <3 Brushes got so much hate for awhile it seemed, but this is seriously the ideal brush kit. They're just so fun to use and SO reliable for flanks and surprise attacks. I'd like to think I've become very formidable with it. :D

 

[SupaTim]

So I was playing "the best weapon in splatoon," the splattershot tentatek, and I used Ninja Squid just for old-times-sake. It definitely makes a difference. You can approach snipers MUCH easier. You can get behind people with relative ease. You can escape many situations you'd otherwise lose. And you can swim strafe like a boss. I ran 6 swim speed subs to make up for the speed reduction and it gave me just about my normal swim enhancement (I usually run 3 subs). I know you can swim trot for similar stealth, but that can be a huge speed penalty as well and is annoying for a casual squid like myself. So I'll continue to use it with the tentatek probably and I might try it with my other favorite weapons.

 

[Award]

This is mostly why I consider E-Liter the primary OP charger, its range and easy damage stacking combined with overly reliable close quarters options makes it a little ridiculous. I can definitely see wanting the beacons as a charger user, and that's in general probably a more balanced set for actual sniping. There are certain Specials I really don't understand having on a charger (in what situation would a Bubbler be that beneficial to a sniper, aside from brief protection while sniping...? They rarely position themselves to share it, and they're sitting ducks the second it ends). Echolocator and Killer Wail I think are the best-suited Specials for snipers. Kraken is at least a bit more versatile for closing in when needed though.

Yeah. The trouble is there's no way to nerf it without nerfing something else. Nerf the burst bombs and the splattershot gets nerfed. Nerf the main gun and the Custom is completely defenseless. Nerfing stacked damage up probably would still offset it SOMEWHAT. But, if custom is still deadly with one or 2 dmg ups, vanilla is still "op" with its bombs. That's a hard one to fix. The "burst bomb mains" can be pretty annoying though.

Ahhh, my trusty Octobrush Nouveau. I adore it. <3 Brushes got so much hate for awhile it seemed, but this is seriously the ideal brush kit. They're just so fun to use and SO reliable for flanks and surprise attacks. I'd like to think I've become very formidable with it. :D

Wait, which one is the Octobrush Nouveau? I only know them by the names "****ing octobrush!" and "*** **** ****ing octobrush!" :D

Seriously I have so much salt against octobrushes...whenever there's "that one player" that gets me over and over again 7/10 times it's one of the above mentioned octobrushes :p

So I was playing "the best weapon in splatoon," the splattershot tentatek, and I used Ninja Squid just for old-times-sake. It definitely makes a difference. You can approach snipers MUCH easier. You can get behind people with relative ease. You can escape many situations you'd otherwise lose. And you can swim strafe like a boss. I ran 6 swim speed subs to make up for the speed reduction and it gave me just about my normal swim enhancement (I usually run 3 subs). I know you can swim trot for similar stealth, but that can be a huge speed penalty as well and is annoying for a casual squid like myself. So I'll continue to use it with the tentatek probably and I might try it with my other favorite weapons.

I never got the "swim trot" thing instead of NS. I know how it works but in a firefight, you are simply NOT going to be able to use it the same way as NS. It works for flanking undetected if you have enough ink and time to use it, but IMO that's only 1/3 of what NS really does. The big advantage is simply "disappearing" in the middle of a fire fight and you can pop up from any angle and they end up having to hose down everything in all directions in a frenzy like the soldiers in the Alien movies not knowing where you are. "swim trot" just isn't a replacement for NS. NS + a swim speed boost is scary. That's how I use carbon. Never thought of doing it with a tentatek though.

 

[HypernovaSoul]

Yeah. The trouble is there's no way to nerf it without nerfing something else. Nerf the burst bombs and the splattershot gets nerfed. Nerf the main gun and the Custom is completely defenseless. Nerfing stacked damage up probably would still offset it SOMEWHAT. But, if custom is still deadly with one or 2 dmg ups, vanilla is still "op" with its bombs. That's a hard one to fix. The "burst bomb mains" can be pretty annoying though.

Actually, I have pretty solid ideas for patching what I believe to be the 2 main OP weapons in the game. One of them being vanilla E-Liter, I think a simple balanced fix would be the following: 1. prevent 1HKOs completely if the shot is not fully charged, regardless of ability stacking. The range on this thing is already insane...it's slow to charge, yes, but when you can snipe from THAT far away, I'm sorry, it should ALWAYS require a full charge for a 1HKO. Amount of charge should be equal to damage dealt. And this leads to 2. Place a more significant cap on Attack Up stacking, depending on the weapon. This I think is something that causes issues with more than just E-Liters, although it provides the most broken benefits to them.

Frankly, I think the ONLY thing Attack Up should do is increase damage of indirect hits and partial shot splatter. Chip damage being increased, I'm fine with. But Attack Up should never allow 1HKOs in situations where they would be impossible.

Wait, which one is the Octobrush Nouveau? I only know them by the names "****ing octobrush!" and "*** **** ****ing octobrush!" :D

Seriously I have so much salt against octobrushes...whenever there's "that one player" that gets me over and over again 7/10 times it's one of the above mentioned octobrushes :p

Lol, I can understand why you'd have some brush salt. I agree a skilled brush user can be a huge nuisance, which is funny since I remember brushes got sooo much hate ("they're bad weapons" hate, not salt hate) awhile back. I think the introduction of the Octobrush, and particularly its Nouveau variant, made them so much more formidable. Still, they're very much melee/close combat weapons, and when they're outranged (which is most of the time) they need to calculate their options much more carefully. Like Dynamos, they stand-and-splatter quite often, which makes them easy targets for chargers. Unless they've already reached the perch for a flank, lol, in which case yes, the brush has the huge advantage.

I actually personally think that brushes have more of a learning curve than people give them credit for. Like chargers, you need to learn your best options at different distances and scenarios or you'll really screw yourself over. This is probably why they were toted as useless weapons earlier on. As where many rollers had ranged sub options, brushes were strictly up-close combatants (which can be way too situational in Splatoon) up until the Octobrush Nouveau. I will admit it is the scariest brush to deal with. You just have to keep its huge range limitations in mind...and also the fact that if they aren't running Attack Up, they don't kill that quickly.

I never got the "swim trot" thing instead of NS. I know how it works but in a firefight, you are simply NOT going to be able to use it the same way as NS. It works for flanking undetected if you have enough ink and time to use it, but IMO that's only 1/3 of what NS really does. The big advantage is simply "disappearing" in the middle of a fire fight and you can pop up from any angle and they end up having to hose down everything in all directions in a frenzy like the soldiers in the Alien movies not knowing where you are. "swim trot" just isn't a replacement for NS. NS + a swim speed boost is scary. That's how I use carbon. Never thought of doing it with a tentatek though.

I totally agree with this. Squidtrotting is great if you can learn to use it I'm sure, but it requires such awkward joystick twitching that I just found it really unreliable and unrealistic in tighter spots and firefights. And as you also mentioned, even if you do it correctly, you could end up swimming even slower than if you just use Ninja Squid, which can retract the benefit of stealth. I don't think I'll ever give Ninja Squid up, honestly. It's the most reliable stealth ability in the game, alongside maybe Stealth Jump (although....the slowness of that ability frustrates me a bit too much. I don't enjoy taking 15 minutes to jump to a teammate, even if I'm doing it invisibly). It's mainly useful for close combat weapons and flankers, but it does its job so well.

 

[Award]

Actually, I have pretty solid ideas for patching what I believe to be the 2 main OP weapons in the game. One of them being vanilla E-Liter, I think a simple balanced fix would be the following: 1. prevent 1HKOs completely if the shot is not fully charged, regardless of ability stacking. The range on this thing is already insane...it's slow to charge, yes, but when you can snipe from THAT far away, I'm sorry, it should ALWAYS require a full charge for a 1HKO. Amount of charge should be equal to damage dealt. And this leads to 2. Place a more significant cap on Attack Up stacking, depending on the weapon. This I think is something that causes issues with more than just E-Liters, although it provides the most broken benefits to them.

Frankly, I think the ONLY thing Attack Up should do is increase damage of indirect hits and partial shot splatter. Chip damage being increased, I'm fine with. But Attack Up should never allow 1HKOs in situations where they would be impossible.

That's a horrible solution! That would destroy eliter from "overused weapon" to "nobody uses these anymore". I'm pretty sure that's the kind of meta change they don't want to introduce. Their earlier nerf of eliter actually already did that to a lot of less capable snipers, and some already have the opinion they're useless after the nerf and splat charger charges faster and doesn't have THAT much shorter range. They increased the needed charge time, but one thing to keep in mind with eliter, is it charges SO slow to full charge, when an enemy is moving (and they should be) there's very little time for aiming, tracking, charging and firing. If the enemy moves well, you will waste one or more shots. So the real charge time is several full charges. And if the enemy is closing in, a partial charge is your only hope. It's not like eliters can sit on a full charge and fire, the only way to use them, particularly the scope, is to charge while you aim. That doesn't give a lot of time for a moving, aware target. The majority of shots are going to be partials. Unscoped, yeah, you can afford to sit there charged a little. They have tons of range, but most shots come within splatterscope range anyway, and accurate hits at the full range are really unreliable. Most of the time, Moray aside, when you get hit by an eliter, you were actually in the same range as a splat charger (unless you're an enemy sniper, say on the adjacent perch in Arowann where only an eliter can get you.)

Don't think like a dynamo :D The other weapons are moving frantically and are exceedingly difficult to hit at range in one hit. The other thing is this would kiill the Custom entirely. They can't apply a change to one version's main weapon and not the other. What would I do if the enemy is closing in, throw beacons at them? :p

The main problem is the bombs and the ability to stack too much dmg up. I often hit but don't kill with only 1.5 main dmg ups. With 2-3 those shots might hit. The guys who have 6 are a whole different matter. Your solution makes a big bamboozler. Granted I often USE the eliter like a big bamboozler, but it shouldn't be mandatory :p

Also keep in mind the amount of charge does relate to RANGE. A partial charge can ohko, but not at full range. So what you can kill is still proportional to how much you charge. You can't do a 3/4 charge and do ohko at full eliter range even with stacked dmg ups. You have to be in splat charger range for that (which still charges faster.) :) And chargers are the only ohko weapon that doesn't ALWAYS ohko with perfect aim. Blasters and rollers already do it.

No disagreements on limiting ability stacking though. That's really a must all the way around due to scumming making it too easy.

Lol, I can understand why you'd have some brush salt. I agree a skilled brush user can be a huge nuisance, which is funny since I remember brushes got sooo much hate ("they're bad weapons" hate, not salt hate) awhile back. I think the introduction of the Octobrush, and particularly its Nouveau variant, made them so much more formidable. Still, they're very much melee/close combat weapons, and when they're outranged (which is most of the time) they need to calculate their options much more carefully. Like Dynamos, they stand-and-splatter quite often, which makes them easy targets for chargers. Unless they've already reached the perch for a flank, lol, in which case yes, the brush has the huge advantage.

I actually personally think that brushes have more of a learning curve than people give them credit for. Like chargers, you need to learn your best options at different distances and scenarios or you'll really screw yourself over. This is probably why they were toted as useless weapons earlier on. As where many rollers had ranged sub options, brushes were strictly up-close combatants (which can be way too situational in Splatoon) up until the Octobrush Nouveau. I will admit it is the scariest brush to deal with. You just have to keep its huge range limitations in mind...and also the fact that if they aren't running Attack Up, they don't kill that quickly.

I doubt anyone doesn't think brushes have a huge learning curve. They're difficult in every way.

Personally I thought I'd like octobrush nuveau best, but ended up loving the vanilla inkbrush. It appeals to my carbon roller instincts I guess. I love it's mobility for hit & run :D I don't play it due to button mashing, but when I do take it out, I love it.

I totally agree with this. Squidtrotting is great if you can learn to use it I'm sure, but it requires such awkward joystick twitching that I just found it really unreliable and unrealistic in tighter spots and firefights. And as you also mentioned, even if you do it correctly, you could end up swimming even slower than if you just use Ninja Squid, which can retract the benefit of stealth. I don't think I'll ever give Ninja Squid up, honestly. It's the most reliable stealth ability in the game, alongside maybe Stealth Jump (although....the slowness of that ability frustrates me a bit too much. I don't enjoy taking 15 minutes to jump to a teammate, even if I'm doing it invisibly). It's mainly useful for close combat weapons and flankers, but it does its job so well.

I'm glad to see a lot of people feel the same about it. All the "expert" presenters boasted about how ninja is not needed due to mastering that advanced technique, and it never made sense to me how that technique could function at all in a firefight, which is when you need it most. It just doesn't do the same thing at all. And there's no way you can count on doing it right as a tentatek is shooting at you.

Stealth Jump I haven't used in a loong time, but keep meaning to bring it out. It could be crazy useful in RM or maybe Zones to drop in to cover the RM or zone unexpected. But that would come at the loss of ink resistance which is probably even more useful for those modes since you're getting shot at back and forth from all angles. So I don't know how useful it REALLY is.

 

[HypernovaSoul]

That's a horrible solution! That would destroy eliter from "overused weapon" to "nobody uses these anymore". I'm pretty sure that's the kind of meta change they don't want to introduce. Their earlier nerf of eliter actually already did that to a lot of less capable snipers, and some already have the opinion they're useless after the nerf and splat charger charges faster and doesn't have THAT much shorter range. They increased the needed charge time, but one thing to keep in mind with eliter, is it charges SO slow to full charge, when an enemy is moving (and they should be) there's very little time for aiming, tracking, charging and firing. If the enemy moves well, you will waste one or more shots. So the real charge time is several full charges. And if the enemy is closing in, a partial charge is your only hope. It's not like eliters can sit on a full charge and fire, the only way to use them, particularly the scope, is to charge while you aim. That doesn't give a lot of time for a moving, aware target. The majority of shots are going to be partials. Unscoped, yeah, you can afford to sit there charged a little. They have tons of range, but most shots come within splatterscope range anyway, and accurate hits at the full range are really unreliable. Most of the time, Moray aside, when you get hit by an eliter, you were actually in the same range as a splat charger (unless you're an enemy sniper, say on the adjacent perch in Arowann where only an eliter can get you.)

Don't think like a dynamo :D The other weapons are moving frantically and are exceedingly difficult to hit at range in one hit. The other thing is this would kiill the Custom entirely. They can't apply a change to one version's main weapon and not the other. What would I do if the enemy is closing in, throw beacons at them? :p

The main problem is the bombs and the ability to stack too much dmg up. I often hit but don't kill with only 1.5 main dmg ups. With 2-3 those shots might hit. The guys who have 6 are a whole different matter. Your solution makes a big bamboozler. Granted I often USE the eliter like a big bamboozler, but it shouldn't be mandatory :p

Also keep in mind the amount of charge does relate to RANGE. A partial charge can ohko, but not at full range. So what you can kill is still proportional to how much you charge. You can't do a 3/4 charge and do ohko at full eliter range even with stacked dmg ups. You have to be in splat charger range for that (which still charges faster.) :) And chargers are the only ohko weapon that doesn't ALWAYS ohko with perfect aim. Blasters and rollers already do it.

No disagreements on limiting ability stacking though. That's really a must all the way around due to scumming making it too easy.

I get where you're coming from. Personally, I just think it's a bit ridiculous when a charger with massive range capability is able to 1HKO at basically any range and any level of charge due to ability stacking. I don't think I have ever been in a situation where I've been hit by an E-Liter and it wasn't a 1HKO. Aside from when you get close and they've made the poor decision to shoot frantically instead of Burst Bomb (exceedingly rare). But yes, I guess that would factor more into Attack Up capping than anything else. The Attack Up capping alone I agree would make a significant enough difference, yet not enough of one to break the meta. Just stops a lot of the scumming.

I also wasn't suggesting that nerfs on E-Liter should apply to all chargers, because in many ways the E-Liter is in a class of its own. The Dynamo received separate nerfs from the other rollers, and E-Liter should be treated similarly. There are ways to deal with pretty much every one of the few OP weapons in the game, but E-Liters are especially frustrating because of what they can do from SO far away with zero warning (like rollers, they're weapons made increasingly obnoxious by lag). But yes, with that narrow viewfinder and laggy charge time you absolutely need to know how to aim with it. I can agree that the ability cap by itself would make enough of a difference to repair most situations in which it feels broken. I'm on the receiving end of chargers far more often than I use them, so it's very possible I'm just less knowledgeable in certain aspects. :P

I doubt anyone doesn't think brushes have a huge learning curve. They're difficult in every way.

Personally I thought I'd like octobrush nuveau best, but ended up loving the vanilla inkbrush. It appeals to my carbon roller instincts I guess. I love it's mobility for hit & run :D I don't play it due to button mashing, but when I do take it out, I love it.

The Inkbrush Nouveau I think is the toughest to use of the brushes, mainly because it is so strictly a close combat weapon, and has zero options with any range. I think the mode it has the greatest chances with is Tower Control, since it has both Ink Mines to ward enemies off the tower and Bubbler to keep teammates on it.

That's cool you're using the vanilla Inkbrush, it's pretty underused but I've come across really excellent players with it. It kills quicker than the Octos, which I appreciate when I use it but the range is so severely limiting that I have a hard time with it in most situations. Overall though, brushes are just such a fun class to use. One of the most unique and true-to-theme weapons in the game, I'd say. They might cause Carpal Tunnel lol, but they're still awesome. :D

I'm glad to see a lot of people feel the same about it. All the "expert" presenters boasted about how ninja is not needed due to mastering that advanced technique, and it never made sense to me how that technique could function at all in a firefight, which is when you need it most. It just doesn't do the same thing at all. And there's no way you can count on doing it right as a tentatek is shooting at you.

Stealth Jump I haven't used in a loong time, but keep meaning to bring it out. It could be crazy useful in RM or maybe Zones to drop in to cover the RM or zone unexpected. But that would come at the loss of ink resistance which is probably even more useful for those modes since you're getting shot at back and forth from all angles. So I don't know how useful it REALLY is.

Yeah, I tried it once and it just didn't fly at all. Splatoon requires such lightning-quick reaction times that having to remind yourself to flick-toggle the joystick in every retreat just doesn't seem feasible. I'm sure I could practice the technique, but I'd rather just swim at my full speed and know I won't be tracked. Then again, it probably depends on each person's weapon/strategy.

I ran Stealth Jump briefly. It's absolutely amazing for surprise flanks, and a generally hilarious way of bewildering opponents who expected the area was cleared. But the lagtime it inflicts on the Super Jump was just too much for me. It really requires you to stack Quick Super Jump on top of it, and that's something I didn't really want to invest in. It probably doesn't help standard respawns/Super Jumps already make me impatient in certain scenarios. Still, I imagine it's incredibly useful centered around a stealthy set and in certain modes.

 

[Leronne]

Actually, I have pretty solid ideas for patching what I believe to be the 2 main OP weapons in the game. One of them being vanilla E-Liter, I think a simple balanced fix would be the following: 1. prevent 1HKOs completely if the shot is not fully charged, regardless of ability stacking. The range on this thing is already insane...it's slow to charge, yes, but when you can snipe from THAT far away, I'm sorry, it should ALWAYS require a full charge for a 1HKO. Amount of charge should be equal to damage dealt. And this leads to 2. Place a more significant cap on Attack Up stacking, depending on the weapon. This I think is something that causes issues with more than just E-Liters, although it provides the most broken benefits to them.

Frankly, I think the ONLY thing Attack Up should do is increase damage of indirect hits and partial shot splatter. Chip damage being increased, I'm fine with. But Attack Up should never allow 1HKOs in situations where they would be impossible.

I think it should be nerfed too, but not outright removed. I think they should add a cap, that prevents the e-litre and splatterscope from infinitely lowering the amount of charge needed to splat an opponent. Either it stops at 85% or 90%. Outright removing it would handicap the e-litre quite a bit, the splattescope not so much since it's charge is relatively quick. Now i personally don't have a problem dealing with chargers. I sometimes make it my goal to harass and splat chargers as much as i can, and to some degree of succes as well. But at times it does seem unfair how quickly some chargers can splat you. three mains alone makes the splatterscope splat faster than the squiffer and people more often than not run more than that.

Also on the topic of the thread, .96 deco i guess. I honestly can't use it myself because i suck at using both the splash wall and kraken, but this thing can be really annoying to fight at times.
But i agree with most people when they say the game doesn't necesarilly have a "best" because of how well balanced it is.

 

[HypernovaSoul]

I think it should be nerfed too, but not outright removed. I think they should add a cap, that prevents the e-litre and splatterscope from infinitely lowering the amount of charge needed to splat an opponent. Either it stops at 85% or 90%. Outright removing it would handicap the e-litre quite a bit, the splattescope not so much since it's charge is relatively quick. Now i personally don't have a problem dealing with chargers. I sometimes make it my goal to harass and splat chargers as much as i can, and to some degree of succes as well. But at times it does seem unfair how quickly some chargers can splat you. three mains alone makes the splatterscope splat faster than the squiffer and people more often than not run more than that.

Also on the topic of the thread, .96 deco i guess. I honestly can't use it myself because i suck at using both the splash wall and kraken, but this thing can be really annoying to fight at times.
But i agree with most people when they say the game doesn't necesarilly have a "best" because of how well balanced it is.

Yes, exactly. I'm understanding now that always requiring a full charge on E-Liter 1HKOs probably isn't practical. I probably just misspoke in terms of how Attack Ups effect E-Liters, which is the real issue. As where Attack Ups have generally pretty minimal (and in turn, balanced) effects on weapons, they can cause huge differences in how an E-Liter (and some other chargers) can kill. That's the problem, right there. Which at this point is surely more of an ability stacking problem than a weapon problem.

The Gal series is very high up on the list of most obnoxious weapons to deal with. Their damage output is just insane, and the great range on some models really makes up for the low rate of fire. Add Splash Wall protection on top of that...ugh. I'm also of the opinion Splash Walls need a(nother) nerf (more specifically, shouldn't be able to suck up as many hits as they do), but that's an entirely different discussion lol.

 

[Award]

get where you're coming from. Personally, I just think it's a bit ridiculous when a charger with massive range capability is able to 1HKO at basically any range and any level of charge due to ability stacking. I don't think I have ever been in a situation where I've been hit by an E-Liter and it wasn't a 1HKO. Aside from when you get close and they've made the poor decision to shoot frantically instead of Burst Bomb (exceedingly rare). But yes, I guess that would factor more into Attack Up capping than anything else. The Attack Up capping alone I agree would make a significant enough difference, yet not enough of one to break the meta. Just stops a lot of the scumming.

I also wasn't suggesting that nerfs on E-Liter should apply to all chargers, because in many ways the E-Liter is in a class of its own. The Dynamo received separate nerfs from the other rollers, and E-Liter should be treated similarly. There are ways to deal with pretty much every one of the few OP weapons in the game, but E-Liters are especially frustrating because of what they can do from SO far away with zero warning (like rollers, they're weapons made increasingly obnoxious by lag). But yes, with that narrow viewfinder and laggy charge time you absolutely need to know how to aim with it. I can agree that the ability cap by itself would make enough of a difference to repair most situations in which it feels broken. I'm on the receiving end of chargers far more often than I use them, so it's very possible I'm just less knowledgeable in certain aspects. :p

Well they can't nerf a MAIN gun without nerfing its pair. That would be like applying different damage on flick on a gold and silver dynamo. And nerfing the main gun on a Custom Eliter would make it virtually useless.

And, yeah, with custom, every now and then I'll frantically shoot, especially on the tower, or if I find myself having flanked someone unaware of my presence (4hko), but most of the time CQC is a quick charge 2-shot like a bamboozler. dmg up REALLY helps not having to charge too much (and you really don't have time to.) And again, partial charges also cap your range, so it's fairly proportional to charge times (and still slower than other charges at the same range.) Range is a big deal on certain maps, but the range is really MOSTLY about reaching other chargers. I don't often find I can hit ground players from that far - usually the map has a slope or other obstruction blocking the way, so ground players are usually hit at the same range a splat charger can get them, meaning eliter is already handicapped in charge time against them. I think you're just salty on charges because it's the only class that can really counter your dynamo easily, so they target you. ;) Just as brushes tarket charges. Problem is the dynamo fills a charger-like role, so is in charger-like perches, and is in good position for the anti-charger charger to nail you where a Krakon wouldn't have been. :)

But yea, agree with you and @Leronne it's all about the excessive stacking. 2-3 mains is more than enough. I run less than that and get by ok, but sometimes consider adding another. No complaints about capping that - helps me out too against the other stacked chargers. And just makes the meta more interesting with more varied abilities in play rather than stacks of everything. A charger with a bunch of quick refill will play differently. Heck no one expects an eliter to be running quick SJ - I think I've surprised a number of enemies by quickly jumping out only to quickly jump to a higher perch somewhere in their way. It changes the meta a lot with different abilities in play. And it would end the hamster splooshes too, with all their run speed.

The Inkbrush Nouveau I think is the toughest to use of the brushes, mainly because it is so strictly a close combat weapon, and has zero options with any range. I think the mode it has the greatest chances with is Tower Control, since it has both Ink Mines to ward enemies off the tower and Bubbler to keep teammates on it.

That's cool you're using the vanilla Inkbrush, it's pretty underused but I've come across really excellent players with it. It kills quicker than the Octos, which I appreciate when I use it but the range is so severely limiting that I have a hard time with it in most situations. Overall though, brushes are just such a fun class to use. One of the most unique and true-to-theme weapons in the game, I'd say. They might cause Carpal Tunnel lol, but they're still awesome. :D

Yeah, all the masher weapons I can't play regularly....the hand regrets it later :p Brushes, sloshers, Nozzlenoses....such a shame, I love the L3, Sloshing Machine Nuveau, and vanilla Inkbrush. But can't play them more than just for giggles.

For me, I think with "very close weapons" I have a habit of closing in TOO close with them. Same with splat roller. So the ones meant to be used close like carbon and inkbrush appeal to my playstyle more. And the escape speed of inkbrush is amazing. Rather than camping like octos do, I prefer relying on its mobility. Set up, ambush fast, and ride the brush out fast. It's the only weapon I ever led a TW spawncamp in Moray on (didn't intend to, hate spawncampers....but I got all the way to spawn and team was behind me apparently. :D) It's AMAZING for rapid flanks and busting defensive lines. You know, I think I'll take it out Sat. for splatfest after getting to royalty with MG :D

 

[HypernovaSoul]

Well they can't nerf a MAIN gun without nerfing its pair. That would be like applying different damage on flick on a gold and silver dynamo. And nerfing the main gun on a Custom Eliter would make it virtually useless.

And, yeah, with custom, every now and then I'll frantically shoot, especially on the tower, or if I find myself having flanked someone unaware of my presence (4hko), but most of the time CQC is a quick charge 2-shot like a bamboozler. dmg up REALLY helps not having to charge too much (and you really don't have time to.) And again, partial charges also cap your range, so it's fairly proportional to charge times (and still slower than other charges at the same range.) Range is a big deal on certain maps, but the range is really MOSTLY about reaching other chargers. I don't often find I can hit ground players from that far - usually the map has a slope or other obstruction blocking the way, so ground players are usually hit at the same range a splat charger can get them, meaning eliter is already handicapped in charge time against them. I think you're just salty on charges because it's the only class that can really counter your dynamo easily, so they target you. ;) Just as brushes tarket charges. Problem is the dynamo fills a charger-like role, so is in charger-like perches, and is in good position for the anti-charger charger to nail you where a Krakon wouldn't have been. :)

But yea, agree with you and @Leronne it's all about the excessive stacking. 2-3 mains is more than enough. I run less than that and get by ok, but sometimes consider adding another. No complaints about capping that - helps me out too against the other stacked chargers. And just makes the meta more interesting with more varied abilities in play rather than stacks of everything. A charger with a bunch of quick refill will play differently. Heck no one expects an eliter to be running quick SJ - I think I've surprised a number of enemies by quickly jumping out only to quickly jump to a higher perch somewhere in their way. It changes the meta a lot with different abilities in play. And it would end the hamster splooshes too, with all their run speed.

Lol well, I can't entirely argue with that. It is my main's main counter, and it often counters it quite easily, so I'm sure that doesn't help how I feel about it. That being said, there have been plenty of instances where I'm using a brush, slosher or shooter and still find E-Liters equally frustrating. It depends on the user and circumstances. But it sounds like there's a pretty unanimous agreement on capping ability stacking, which I'm hoping is eventually applied but I think Splatoon is done with major updates unfortunately.

In terms of what you said about one weapon's nerf requiring an effect on its variant, I think the other E-Liters would handle an Attack Up stacking nerf just fine, and by no means would this have to effect any other chargers differently. As I said, the overuse of Attack Up causes problems for multiple weapons, not just chargers. Attack Up scumming is especially obnoxious on some blasters & Gals as well.

Regardless, most of this is surely opinion and scenario-based, and as I've said multiple times on the forums I believe Splatoon to be a mostly pretty balanced game. But I think most people would agree there are nagging little issues that get very frustrating the more you play. I suppose for now we'll all just have to work our way around them. :P

Yeah, all the masher weapons I can't play regularly....the hand regrets it later :p Brushes, sloshers, Nozzlenoses....such a shame, I love the L3, Sloshing Machine Nuveau, and vanilla Inkbrush. But can't play them more than just for giggles.

For me, I think with "very close weapons" I have a habit of closing in TOO close with them. Same with splat roller. So the ones meant to be used close like carbon and inkbrush appeal to my playstyle more. And the escape speed of inkbrush is amazing. Rather than camping like octos do, I prefer relying on its mobility. Set up, ambush fast, and ride the brush out fast. It's the only weapon I ever led a TW spawncamp in Moray on (didn't intend to, hate spawncampers....but I got all the way to spawn and team was behind me apparently. :D) It's AMAZING for rapid flanks and busting defensive lines. You know, I think I'll take it out Sat. for splatfest after getting to royalty with MG :D

Yeah, close range weapons play an interesting role in this game. It's funny because I main one weapon that is really slow and has insane range, while the other 2 are highly speed-based close combat weapons lol. But I like having those options. I agree the brushes are just so darn fun to ambush with. Same with the non-Dynamo rollers. Nozzlenoses I really never got the hang of. Tried them briefly, and kind of absolutely hated using them lol. But I've seen some very skilled Nozzlenose users, and they can be hard to see coming.

And aw man, brushes make for the most unstoppable spawn campers lol. I'm not a huge fan of the tactic myself, but was in the position once or twice and they really did not stand a chance lol. But, that was TW (Splatfest), which definitely opens more opportunities for spawn camping and a higher likelihood of inexperienced players.

I play TW so rarely nowadays that I'm sometimes at a loss of what weapon to use for them. Dynamos can do exceedingly well on certain stages in TW, but it's just too awkward and slow for others with tighter corridors, especially Port Mackerel. Confrontations are rarer, but sometimes harder to anticipate as a result in TW. Makes me wonder how a Ranked TW would play out.

 

[Award]

Lol well, I can't entirely argue with that. It is my main's main counter, and it often counters it quite easily, so I'm sure that doesn't help how I feel about it. That being said, there have been plenty of instances where I'm using a brush, slosher or shooter and still find E-Liters equally frustrating. It depends on the user and circumstances. But it sounds like there's a pretty unanimous agreement on capping ability stacking, which I'm hoping is eventually applied but I think Splatoon is done with major updates unfortunately.

I was elitering in TC Depot & Mahi yesterday thinking of this conversation as I popped the enemy dynamo again and again....I finished 10/3...most of those were that poor dynamo :p And yeah the thing is it's hard to hit moving targets. REALLY hard. I blow so many shots against brushes and carbon rollers and freaking bunny hopping splooshes(!!) to the point that if I miss more than two, I'll stop trying to hit them and instead harass them, boxing them in with ink to make it easy for midrange teammates to take them out. If my teammates aren't idiots...and they usually are...it's a great 1-2 punch. Especially with lag, hitting anything that moves like that is quite difficult if you can't predict where they'll be. Thus dynamo. It stands pretty much in one spot slowly jumping up and down flinging a gigantic inky flag of enemy color announcing "I'm here, I'm here try to hit me!" Bonus points that 80% of all dynamos I see, for some inexplicable reason, are all wearing the samurai armor, making their visibility index of a bronze high peak helmet, wide bronze torso sheaths, and a solid gold humongous roller somewhere between "fire truck" and "Vegas strip." :D

But I'm still REALLY looking forward to running dynamo soon. Played with Splat Roller in a very dynamo way in zones and liked it (lost miserably, but yesterday was WEIRD matchmaking and I lost with every weapon I've ever played.) Dynamo seems like it would be ideal for zones.

In terms of what you said about one weapon's nerf requiring an effect on its variant, I think the other E-Liters would handle an Attack Up stacking nerf just fine, and by no means would this have to effect any other chargers differently. As I said, the overuse of Attack Up causes problems for multiple weapons, not just chargers. Attack Up scumming is especially obnoxious on some blasters & Gals as well.

Oh I don't think capping ability stacking would harm Custom. I think that should be universal, not weapon specific. Stacking needs to be curbed. I was referring to requiring a full charge for ohko on 3k to compensate it being OP due to it's far & close range abilities would cripple custom that's already crippled at close range. 3k can't have specific weapon nerfs without unfairly affecting Custom. But capping stacking would be fine as it would lessen the impact of the burst bombs AND prevent SUCH early ohko charges on any charger. And spare all the run/swim speed ups.

I don't believe Nintendo will actually fix this, BUT it's not impossible. Major changes/updates might be done, but I'd say that's a balance issue which they do intend to keep fixing. Technically it's really an exploit fix. The game was never meant to have stacked abilities. If it was they wouldn't have applied the lotto based random unlock & reroll gambling system. The idea of allowing stacking would be if you spent an insane amount of time and snails and got super lucky that would be your reward - becoming a superhero: faster, stronger than anyone else. If you saw 3 of these a month it would be a miracle. The idea that almost every S+ and half of S have stacks like that shows it's mostly through scumming...a.k.a. cheating that's breaking the intended balance. Caps fix the scum exploit, it's not even a balance issue.

Yeah, close range weapons play an interesting role in this game. It's funny because I main one weapon that is really slow and has insane range, while the other 2 are highly speed-based close combat weapons lol. But I like having those options. I agree the brushes are just so darn fun to ambush with. Same with the non-Dynamo rollers. Nozzlenoses I really never got the hang of. Tried them briefly, and kind of absolutely hated using them lol. But I've seen some very skilled Nozzlenose users, and they can be hard to see coming.

L3 is fun. I hate using button spammers, but coming from chargers, L3 is crazy fast to kill. A pain to ink with though, which limits it in every mode IMO. For pure killing it's amazing though. Every time I decide to play it I kill well, but still lose because ink is too important and L3 just misses the mark on it. Still need to try it in RM though. On a day Mackerel is NOT in rotation.

I play TW so rarely nowadays that I'm sometimes at a loss of what weapon to use for them. Dynamos can do exceedingly well on certain stages in TW, but it's just too awkward and slow for others with tighter corridors, especially Port Mackerel. Confrontations are rarer, but sometimes harder to anticipate as a result in TW. Makes me wonder how a Ranked TW would play out.

NO weapon does well in Port Mackerel. I've yet to find a weapon and mode I don't hate that map with. So far splat charger is the best I've found mostly due to splat bombs. Zones is probably its best mode. If it has a best. Even splat roller sucks there....carbon ALMOST does ok, but mostly for the camper players, which isn't me. Blasters are ok-ish. Brushes seem to do great though.

I wish sooo much for a ranked TW. TW is still the best mode, and more competitive would be amazing. Splatfest gives a taste of how great it could be.

Do you see many aerosprays in the ranked modes? Aero dominates in TW. I've seen some in ranked but some of the players with them were just awful so it's hard to tell. Gold RG seems like it would be so ideal for Zones. I tried it yesterday and got massacred..but, like I said, it was an awful day with imbalanced teams and even with my more familiar ranged weapons, even if I endured, my teams generally didn't, and even when we held our on in k/d, we never held the zone close to as long. Which is why I tried RG to begin with.

 

[SupaTim]

L3 is fun. I hate using button spammers, but coming from chargers, L3 is crazy fast to kill. A pain to ink with though, which limits it in every mode IMO. For pure killing it's amazing though. Every time I decide to play it I kill well, but still lose because ink is too important and L3 just misses the mark on it. Still need to try it in RM though. On a day Mackerel is NOT in rotation.

I only only use the L3-D, but I've never had a problem inking. In fact, it probably inks about the same or better than the splattershots. Of course, this is after the buff, so if you haven't used it in a few months I can see where the problem would be.

 

[Award]

I only only use the L3-D, but I've never had a problem inking. In fact, it probably inks about the same or better than the splattershots. Of course, this is after the buff, so if you haven't used it in a few months I can see where the problem would be.

I've used it post-buff, but playing TW with it was just kind of spammy and painful. Good killer though. I prefer disruptors on the vanilla to Dolphin though. Tried it again during splatfest for a few rounds and it was ok, but I was used to aerospray level inking by then.

I did try it again yesterday when NOTHING was working in Zones, and killed almost nothing. But then again that was a session when NOTHING was working in Zones, so I shouldn't be surprised. Imbalanced teams in Ancho-V is sheer chaos. There's nowhere to back off to get a handle on what's going on where once you're in the mosh pit. Though it was my first time in Zones in Ancho-V, I always missed the rotations prior. Personally I think L3 works best when you have room to maneuver, much like carbon roller. That map was not that.

 

[HypernovaSoul]

I was elitering in TC Depot & Mahi yesterday thinking of this conversation as I popped the enemy dynamo again and again....I finished 10/3...most of those were that poor dynamo :p And yeah the thing is it's hard to hit moving targets. REALLY hard. I blow so many shots against brushes and carbon rollers and freaking bunny hopping splooshes(!!) to the point that if I miss more than two, I'll stop trying to hit them and instead harass them, boxing them in with ink to make it easy for midrange teammates to take them out. If my teammates aren't idiots...and they usually are...it's a great 1-2 punch. Especially with lag, hitting anything that moves like that is quite difficult if you can't predict where they'll be. Thus dynamo. It stands pretty much in one spot slowly jumping up and down flinging a gigantic inky flag of enemy color announcing "I'm here, I'm here try to hit me!" Bonus points that 80% of all dynamos I see, for some inexplicable reason, are all wearing the samurai armor, making their visibility index of a bronze high peak helmet, wide bronze torso sheaths, and a solid gold humongous roller somewhere between "fire truck" and "Vegas strip." :D

But I'm still REALLY looking forward to running dynamo soon. Played with Splat Roller in a very dynamo way in zones and liked it (lost miserably, but yesterday was WEIRD matchmaking and I lost with every weapon I've ever played.) Dynamo seems like it would be ideal for zones.

Yeah, I can definitely understand that speedier targets are quite a bit more difficult for charger users to hit. On the exceedingly rare occasions I use a charger, I have the absolute hardest time hitting running/hopping enemies. Even more so with the commonness of Run/Swim Speed Up. But then, I'm a terrible charger user and haven't practiced with them at all lol.

The Dynamo was really custom built for Zones, which is so funny because I kind of hate Splat Zones nowadays lol...seems like we've had different experiences there. I'm too often stuck with awkward matchups, and in general I feel like the first team to claim almost ALWAYS wins. Big comebacks are virtually non-existent in this mode, let alone overtime. My issue with this is that as great as the Dynamo is at covering turf with both its basic attack and Special, it isn't great at getting to the zones first/quickly, especially depending on the stage. Unlike E-Liters who can open pathways up walls efficiently with Burst Bombs, I have to rely on my sluggish swings to get to my Dynamo perches, especially if my teammates make no effort to spread ink in the area. And as you said, the Dynamo's biggest weakness is maybe what gigantic neon-sign targets they are. Which, given the destruction they're capable of, I guess they need to be lol.

On stages like Saltspray Rig, if there's an E-Liter on the opposing end of the zone, I have almost zero chance of being able to rely on the only real ranged weapon perch on the stage. They will take me out instantly, every single time. The other main entry corridor is far too narrow and cluttered for it to be safe for any slow weapon, so it's just too easy to feel like there's an unbreakable barrier of entry if your team didn't reach it first. But I should really just not use Dynamo on that stage/mode combo. Then again, lately, I usually just don't play when it's SZ. :p I can still enjoy SZ on Camp Triggerfish (since I just love that stage in general) and Urchin Underpass, but because it's so difficult to steal a claimed zone on certain stages, and because there often isn't much activity beyond defense-spamming or desperately trying to break a defense, I just have a hard time enjoying it.

That being said, I still adore the Dynamo and it's my most used. I'm sure you'd enjoy it as well given the other kits you run. When it's successful on SZ it can be VERY successful (Inkstrike is in general the Special custom-made to instantly reclaim a zone from anywhere), but when it isn't you can often be a huge target in a small and predictably trafficked area.

Oh I don't think capping ability stacking would harm Custom. I think that should be universal, not weapon specific. Stacking needs to be curbed. I was referring to requiring a full charge for ohko on 3k to compensate it being OP due to it's far & close range abilities would cripple custom that's already crippled at close range. 3k can't have specific weapon nerfs without unfairly affecting Custom. But capping stacking would be fine as it would lessen the impact of the burst bombs AND prevent SUCH early ohko charges on any charger. And spare all the run/swim speed ups.

I don't believe Nintendo will actually fix this, BUT it's not impossible. Major changes/updates might be done, but I'd say that's a balance issue which they do intend to keep fixing. Technically it's really an exploit fix. The game was never meant to have stacked abilities. If it was they wouldn't have applied the lotto based random unlock & reroll gambling system. The idea of allowing stacking would be if you spent an insane amount of time and snails and got super lucky that would be your reward - becoming a superhero: faster, stronger than anyone else. If you saw 3 of these a month it would be a miracle. The idea that almost every S+ and half of S have stacks like that shows it's mostly through scumming...a.k.a. cheating that's breaking the intended balance. Caps fix the scum exploit, it's not even a balance issue.

Yes, precisely. I'm still hoping for it, I just don't think it's likely. :(

NO weapon does well in Port Mackerel. I've yet to find a weapon and mode I don't hate that map with. So far splat charger is the best I've found mostly due to splat bombs. Zones is probably its best mode. If it has a best. Even splat roller sucks there....carbon ALMOST does ok, but mostly for the camper players, which isn't me. Blasters are ok-ish. Brushes seem to do great though.

I wish sooo much for a ranked TW. TW is still the best mode, and more competitive would be amazing. Splatfest gives a taste of how great it could be.

Do you see many aerosprays in the ranked modes? Aero dominates in TW. I've seen some in ranked but some of the players with them were just awful so it's hard to tell. Gold RG seems like it would be so ideal for Zones. I tried it yesterday and got massacred..but, like I said, it was an awful day with imbalanced teams and even with my more familiar ranged weapons, even if I endured, my teams generally didn't, and even when we held our on in k/d, we never held the zone close to as long. Which is why I tried RG to begin with.

Actually from my experience, Mackerel is the main stage where ranged, narrow jet stream-type weapons have the biggest advantage. Wider "splatter" type weapons (pretty much all rollers, brushes, some blasters) have trouble because their line of attack is crippled by the narrow corridors, so their short range feels even shorter. I've done very well with the Dual Squelcher on that stage, although that's mainly in RM & TC, not SZ. Chargers can be horrifying on it because they have a much more straightforward line of fire, and there are long straightaways with no obstacles in view unless the target switches paths...which can still be predictable. And yes, as you said, the short ranged weapons like Carbon and brushes tend to stick to camping here, because in between each long straightaway are prime camp spots for flanks. But if zones have been claimed and the opposing team's already advancing, brushes and rollers can have a really hard time making it through those passageways.

Turf Wars are fun, but in my opinion/experience they just don't feel as competitive or fast-paced as the Ranked modes. It would be interesting to see how that might change if a Ranked version were added though. Splatfests can be very fun but too often feel like a huge mishmash of varying play styles and levels of experience. It would be interesting to see a more strictly competitive variant.

I almost never see Aerosprays in Ranked lol, though I feel like they were insanely common when I first started playing. I think people found out their weaknesses and realized they're much more effective at covering turf than killing, so they're more easily taken out and seem to be used only in TW now. Aerosprays running Attack Up mains seem to be a bit more formidable, though. I'm all for people trying to run different ability builds to make underused weapons work better, it can make for attack patterns that enemies don't see coming/wouldn't expect. ;)

 

[Award]

Yeah, I can definitely understand that speedier targets are quite a bit more difficult for charger users to hit. On the exceedingly rare occasions I use a charger, I have the absolute hardest time hitting running/hopping enemies. Even more so with the commonness of Run/Swim Speed Up. But then, I'm a terrible charger user and haven't practiced with them at all lol.

I had some horrible rounds yesterday, mostly S+ opponents....I could hit NO ONE. Now, I'm not a top tier charger user by any stretch, but I'm a pretty decent one, these days, I think. But they moved so fast, and so unpredictable. I kept firing and hitting air. Throw in some horrendous lag, and that's a very bad time. Stationary weapons may hate chargers, but it tends to lead to a misunderstanding of just how bad chargers can have it. I mean you have to hit the needle point spot the enemy is GOING to be. For a dynamo that's easy. For a shooter or other roller that's a lot harder. A brush I don't even bother. My ink lines can't even slow them! :p I'll say a charger + a brush is a formidible team though! Teamed up with a random inkbrush one time in Depot. I'd set 'em up, he'd knock 'em down. I finished 0/0 or 0/1, but that doesn't tell the whole story. The kills were joint efforts. I kept the enemy boxed, and gave him trails to follow right to them. :) That was fun.

The Dynamo was really custom built for Zones, which is so funny because I kind of hate Splat Zones nowadays lol...seems like we've had different experiences there. I'm too often stuck with awkward matchups, and in general I feel like the first team to claim almost ALWAYS wins. Big comebacks are virtually non-existent in this mode, let alone overtime. My issue with this is that as great as the Dynamo is at covering turf with both its basic attack and Special, it isn't great at getting to the zones first/quickly, especially depending on the stage. Unlike E-Liters who can open pathways up walls efficiently with Burst Bombs, I have to rely on my sluggish swings to get to my Dynamo perches, especially if my teammates make no effort to spread ink in the area. And as you said, the Dynamo's biggest weakness is maybe what gigantic neon-sign targets they are. Which, given the destruction they're capable of, I guess they need to be lol.

On stages like Saltspray Rig, if there's an E-Liter on the opposing end of the zone, I have almost zero chance of being able to rely on the only real ranged weapon perch on the stage. They will take me out instantly, every single time. The other main entry corridor is far too narrow and cluttered for it to be safe for any slow weapon, so it's just too easy to feel like there's an unbreakable barrier of entry if your team didn't reach it first. But I should really just not use Dynamo on that stage/mode combo. Then again, lately, I usually just don't play when it's SZ. :p I can still enjoy SZ on Camp Triggerfish (since I just love that stage in general) and Urchin Underpass, but because it's so difficult to steal a claimed zone on certain stages, and because there often isn't much activity beyond defense-spamming or desperately trying to break a defense, I just have a hard time enjoying it.

That being said, I still adore the Dynamo and it's my most used. I'm sure you'd enjoy it as well given the other kits you run. When it's successful on SZ it can be VERY successful (Inkstrike is in general the Special custom-made to instantly reclaim a zone from anywhere), but when it isn't you can often be a huge target in a small and predictably trafficked area.

So I finally did it. I got my dynamo! I tried it out a while in TW yesterday, and so far I love the thing! I already added it to my sig mains. It's so darn fun to wash the whole map in ink. Skatepark the enemy raided our base and painted it all. It didn't take long to repaint it all back. We dominated most rounds. I didn't have huge k/d but man was it a strong weapon. Granted, that's TW, so I don't know how it fairs against better players yet. But it's fun to use and I'm not horrible with it just out of the gates. One thing that still gets me is how many times I think I should have hit someone and it doesn't hit them at all. Or 3 hits and they're still alive. So far the refill thing doesn't bother me. I was running one ink recovery main. It seems fast. I'm used to Hydra and Eliter (3 shots and you're done!), LOL! :D I think too many times it was going over their heads or something....hard to gauge that yet.

I knew it would probably be a main for me and it certainly is.

Oddly I picked up Splat Roller during splatfest too and really have taken a liking to it. Between Dynamo and Splat I'm kind of reconsidering how much I like Carbon. I loved the speed, but there's a lot you can do with the other two that you can't with carbon. I'm a much bigger fan of Splat roller than krak-on. Suction bombs are too useful in ranked modes. Carbon's fun, but it's kind of a one trick pony with the melee thing. And too seldom is there sufficient clean ink to ninja in.

So now I'm maining all 3 rollers, but carbon is the one I'm considering dropping from mains. Seems most useful in RM to chase down the RM...

Oddly your SZ experience differs. I find that my team can claim the zone first easily enough. We can hold it for a while. But then once the enemy takes it they become 2x stronger and we never get it back. Thus what I hope to accomplish with dynamo. Break their lock on it but just washing it away. Literally.

Actually from my experience, Mackerel is the main stage where ranged, narrow jet stream-type weapons have the biggest advantage. Wider "splatter" type weapons (pretty much all rollers, brushes, some blasters) have trouble because their line of attack is crippled by the narrow corridors, so their short range feels even shorter. I've done very well with the Dual Squelcher on that stage, although that's mainly in RM & TC, not SZ. Chargers can be horrifying on it because they have a much more straightforward line of fire, and there are long straightaways with no obstacles in view unless the target switches paths...which can still be predictable. And yes, as you said, the short ranged weapons like Carbon and brushes tend to stick to camping here, because in between each long straightaway are prime camp spots for flanks. But if zones have been claimed and the opposing team's already advancing, brushes and rollers can have a really hard time making it through those passageways.

And Mackerel....ugh. Problem with chargers is if you charge up, they can switch lanes fast, and you have to lose your charge. Then you're helpless. Specifically for eliter. Splat charger's not a bad weapon there, mostly due to splat bombs. That map forces me to use splat charger. Squiff's too short range. Too easy to get jumped. Bambi with that wall...that things beastly there though. I agree, rollers don't belong in mackerel. Carbon can do it...the bigger rollers tend to go badly . Though ti's good for support to paint the lanes.

I almost never see Aerosprays in Ranked lol, though I feel like they were insanely common when I first started playing. I think people found out their weaknesses and realized they're much more effective at covering turf than killing, so they're more easily taken out and seem to be used only in TW now. Aerosprays running Attack Up mains seem to be a bit more formidable, though. I'm all for people trying to run different ability builds to make underused weapons work better, it can make for attack patterns that enemies don't see coming/wouldn't expect. ;)

I've seen an odd proportion of gold aerosprays in upper A's....which is tempered by the fact that these aerosprays seemed to not know what they were doing (how they got to upper a's I don't know. On paper though both aerosprays seem perfect for ranked. Silver is basically an inkzooka charger, and the fastest inkzooka charger in the game. Gold charges up instant inkstrike barrages. And Zones and TC make mines almost seem useful! And yet, it seems hard to play, and I can't place a finger on why. It can be a surprisingly deadly weapon but I was getting pummelled by tentateks.

 

[HypernovaSoul]

I had some horrible rounds yesterday, mostly S+ opponents....I could hit NO ONE. Now, I'm not a top tier charger user by any stretch, but I'm a pretty decent one, these days, I think. But they moved so fast, and so unpredictable. I kept firing and hitting air. Throw in some horrendous lag, and that's a very bad time. Stationary weapons may hate chargers, but it tends to lead to a misunderstanding of just how bad chargers can have it. I mean you have to hit the needle point spot the enemy is GOING to be. For a dynamo that's easy. For a shooter or other roller that's a lot harder. A brush I don't even bother. My ink lines can't even slow them! :p I'll say a charger + a brush is a formidible team though! Teamed up with a random inkbrush one time in Depot. I'd set 'em up, he'd knock 'em down. I finished 0/0 or 0/1, but that doesn't tell the whole story. The kills were joint efforts. I kept the enemy boxed, and gave him trails to follow right to them. :) That was fun.

We've all been there dude, I feel your pain lol. As with most learning curve weapons, chargers can be pretty mystifying. Being on the receiving end of them, it can feel like the opponent has INSANE bird's-eye aim. But actually using the thing can feel like the most awkward, crippling experience-this again coming from someone who isn't experienced with them at all lol. But I guess that just goes into the fact that it's easy to obsess over when the shots actually hit, though I'm sure there are plenty that don't lol. And also that they just really don't fit with my play style. Working together with a charger from afar, I totally get what you mean. People don't often think to do so but it can make for pretty deadly teamwork.

So I finally did it. I got my dynamo! I tried it out a while in TW yesterday, and so far I love the thing! I already added it to my sig mains. It's so darn fun to wash the whole map in ink. Skatepark the enemy raided our base and painted it all. It didn't take long to repaint it all back. We dominated most rounds. I didn't have huge k/d but man was it a strong weapon. Granted, that's TW, so I don't know how it fairs against better players yet. But it's fun to use and I'm not horrible with it just out of the gates. One thing that still gets me is how many times I think I should have hit someone and it doesn't hit them at all. Or 3 hits and they're still alive. So far the refill thing doesn't bother me. I was running one ink recovery main. It seems fast. I'm used to Hydra and Eliter (3 shots and you're done!), LOL! :D I think too many times it was going over their heads or something....hard to gauge that yet.

I knew it would probably be a main for me and it certainly is.

Oddly I picked up Splat Roller during splatfest too and really have taken a liking to it. Between Dynamo and Splat I'm kind of reconsidering how much I like Carbon. I loved the speed, but there's a lot you can do with the other two that you can't with carbon. I'm a much bigger fan of Splat roller than krak-on. Suction bombs are too useful in ranked modes. Carbon's fun, but it's kind of a one trick pony with the melee thing. And too seldom is there sufficient clean ink to ninja in.

So now I'm maining all 3 rollers, but carbon is the one I'm considering dropping from mains. Seems most useful in RM to chase down the RM...

That's awesome you've taken a liking to Dynamo, I had a feeling you would. ;) When it's effective, it's insanely effective. I've totally dominated with it and it's so satisfying. Although yes, the wavering amounts of damage inflicted by indirect hits is thanks to the nerf. It's a bit hard to determine exactly where the 1HKO zone is, especially in firefights. I generally assume if they aren't within the central wave, it won't be a 1HKO. And Dynamos do NOT do well trying to chase down enemies for a secondary hit, unless they're a good distance away. I'm sure now you understand what I mean about indirect roller hits now doing minimal "chip" damage; it can take 2-3+ indirect hits to kill if you can't center them. Indirect blaster hits feel so devastating in comparison. >_<

As I also mentioned before, although it's listed as having one of the longest ranges in the game, the full extent of that range is definitely not its 1HKO radius. Still, this is the instance of where the Dynamo excels at walls of pressure. It's great at keeping opponents pushed back. It's usually more successful at applying pressure from perches than close combat, though I'd like to think I'm comfortable enough with it that I'm finally handling closer confrontations better too. All a matter of knowing your swing timing and anticipating enemy movement.

I love the vanilla and Krak-On rollers, although I rarely use them lately. They're amazing for flanks, covering turf and clearing a tower. I used to use them quite frequently in TC & RM. They seem less common nowadays in higher tier Ranked, but the vanilla/Hero roller does have a great kit for certain stages & modes. I agree as amazing as the Kraken is, sometimes not having an offensive sub on a roller can feel way too crippling. Suction Bombs are so amazing for Tower Control. And Killer Wail is so much more useful than people sometimes give it credit for.

I like Carbon but like Dynamo it's just so different from the main rollers. I suppose you could say it's a one-trick pony, although it's one of the best flanking weapons in the game. That being said, it's definitely the roller I use the least lol. It requires a play style that I just didn't want to invest in. I preferred the Octobrush Nouveau for that type of tactic anyway.

Oddly your SZ experience differs. I find that my team can claim the zone first easily enough. We can hold it for a while. But then once the enemy takes it they become 2x stronger and we never get it back. Thus what I hope to accomplish with dynamo. Break their lock on it but just washing it away. Literally.

Maybe I've just had bad luck, but yeah I just can't deal with the mode much at all lately. It depends on the stage though. You mentioned enjoying Dynamo on Blackbelly, that's a stage where in the right position it can be such a weapon of mass destruction on Zones. If I've successfully claimed the center tower with my Dynamo, man...watch out. :D Perfect perch to just dominate from.

Zones on Hammerhead was the total stake in the coffin for me though...ugh. Such an insufferable combination. I absolutely NEVER play when that's in rotation. That's my recurring issue, how difficult it is to steal 1-2 claimed zones. And even when my team's ahead, I just don't enjoy it much. I think because defense spamming just doesn't mesh with my play style, it's not what I enjoy about this game. Sad, given I run a weapon so custom-made for it lol. But I can see why fans of king-of-the-hill style battles would like it.

I've seen an odd proportion of gold aerosprays in upper A's....which is tempered by the fact that these aerosprays seemed to not know what they were doing (how they got to upper a's I don't know. On paper though both aerosprays seem perfect for ranked. Silver is basically an inkzooka charger, and the fastest inkzooka charger in the game. Gold charges up instant inkstrike barrages. And Zones and TC make mines almost seem useful! And yet, it seems hard to play, and I can't place a finger on why. It can be a surprisingly deadly weapon but I was getting pummelled by tentateks.

Honestly, Tentateks kill so ridiculously quickly I'd swear they feel like 1HKO weapons sometimes lol. An Attack Up Tentatek user is an instant-death machine. I think that's why Aerosprays fell from grace, they're rapid fire and great for turf coverage, but they just take way too long to kill and have a line of fire that's too narrow. Narrow jet-stream style weapons I noticed are now rarely used in general. I think because people ended up preferring either wider "splatter" weapons to make up for imperfect aim (rollers, blasters), or heavier damage/range to make up for slowness-to-kill (chargers, sloshers). Aerosprays fall somewhere awkwardly in between the two. Which can make them a jack of all trades but master of none.