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What do you think is the best weapon in Splatoon?

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Rockenberg, Jan 27, 2016.

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    LOL, yeah. I generally like playing weapons that kill me a lot. I got into chargers because I was getting killed a lot by them. I thought they were IMPOSSIBLE to use. I couldn't deal with it at all. Then one day I picked up squiffer and did ok. Then went onto the bigger chargers and the playstyle just clicked. Though I'm not always a "sit on the perch" kind of charger. In TW I will, but the ranked modes require mobility, charger or no. Thus why I like my beacons. I can get down on the ground and into the fray, but recall to near my perch instantly. Though I established great locations for them in TW, I'm having a harder time establishing good beacon positions to use that tactic in a lot of ranked modes. Depot and Triggerfish are the only two so far that seem consistent with TW for me.

    Honestly eliters almost never pose a problem for me. I do hate the perfect aim stacked dmg up types, and the burst bomb mains, but generally they'll kill me once or twice in a match when I'm not using eliter, and not more since I know their blind spots and ways to distract them too well. Splatterscopes are actually more often a problem for me since they are more likely to be anywhere so I can't predict them as easily.

    But yeah, theres always a lot of hate for eliters, but it truly is exceedingly difficult to get those kills, and you'll be left feeling like an idiot wasting so many shots and not stopping the enemy, leaving your poor teammates to clean up. When things click, they click. I can shut down an advance with a triple kill back to back. But once you miss one shot...you're likely to miss another. And once you miss another, you've kind of failed. If you can get a really tough opponent into your base harassing you the whole time it's pretty hard to reclaim that position. And predicting rapid moving ground opponents is sometimes pretty awful (if not impossible.) Pressuring, rather than killing, becomes the objective. Even if you look the fool with a negative k/d.


    It's tons of fun. I tried only one round with it in Zones yesterday (was squadding the rest of the time so I went with blasters & shooters) and we lost. But I blame it on the fact that it was Saltspray, and almost impossible to get into a good position for the zone with a dynamo (and their snipers took me off perches real fast.) I also blame our team's N-Zap who was shooting from a sniper perch at the zone. :rolleyes:

    But overall I think it'll be great there. Interestingly coming from an eliter/hydra + carbon background I have an interesting take on dynamo. I do spend time back on the perch pressuring more like a hydra until that fails. But then I'm likely to join the fray, flank, and do run-downs & ambushes carbon style. I got as many melee kills as flings & splat bombs :p TW Skatepark I was alone in enemy territory just painting the whole thing and taking everyone out. It's the only weapon other than aerospray I've been able to actually lead to the creation of a spawncamp. I felt bad about that, but still, it says a lot about dynamo. It's the support weapon that plays like a front line weapon :D

    You're right about the range....I hadn't realized at first the ohko potential not extending to full range. It'll take time to figure out the REAL range. That's kind of misleading. But it's still a heck of an awesome weapon :D

    Odd, I've been trying to take the vanilla INTO ranked more. So do you use dynamo in RM and TC? I wouldn't have thought Dynamo viable there, especially fast paced RM?

    I'm not so much a flank player specifically. I like trying to use it for a more assault like role. I've been seeing a number of hero/vanilla rollers in the ranks, but I'm trapped in the infinite A loop for now so I can't say how popular they are for S/S+ lobbies. Compared to carbon it seems to allow more direct pressure and open combat, plus the suction bombs. I'm surprised they're less used in higher ranks. I know dynamo is everywhere in high rank SZ, but is it that common in RM as well? Certainly brushes aren't too common.

    I LOVE killer wail. It's often maligned around here, but personally I think it's one of the best subs in the game. Everyone loves the always unpredictable inkzooka but it takes soo long to charge, and its accuracy so questionable, that I'd think a single huge zone denial cone would be more loved. Especially when it charges so fast. Rm last night we had a dropout. The final score was like 2 to 60-something. But we DID keep it from becoming a knockout in 3v4 and I largely credit my splat roller with Killer Wail. I took out the enemy RM carrier in hammerhead 5 times with wails and it bought me time to run down the annoying krak-on & carbon flankers camping in our base. Over and over again. Kept that Rm at 2!

    Also had a fun round in kelp dome where the enemy team was so focused on popping the shield that I just rolled over two of them then laid a wail for the RM carrier to land it in under 45 seconds :D Weak opponents, yes. But fun all the same.

    It would be a sad day if rollers werent viable ranked!

    Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the flank/camp play. I never played carbon like that but I did do ninja squid lurking in our own ink. The trouble is, too many rounds, there's not enough of our own clean ink to lurk in. Or it becomes map dependent. I can flank in our own ink but I can't use it to push into enemy territory too well. And all too often that's precisely what I need to do. Splat roller gives a good way to fling into territory in a pressuring way that carbon can't. That's why I'm actually considering moving my carbon play toward splat roller. Though if it's not too viable in ranked, or at least RM....is Dynamo? I won't abandon the roller class ;)

    Hammerhead zones is weird being on that bottom level. I like Hammerhead in most modes...but MOST weapons would probably suck there. Carbon can do Ok. But yeah the rollers...I don't know how well they work in general ther outside brushes and carbon. I think I had my best hammerhead zones with splat charger. It's a Mackerel-like layout down there but not as irritatingly gridded. The blasters should do well I'd think as well.


    Other than chargers, and particularly eliters, which weapons, in your opinion, have the highest skill floor, and the highest skill ceiling?

    That's lag. So many times I get killed after one single TTK shot hits. Same with nzaps actually. Oddly I don't play very well with TTK. I don't dislike the weapon. It's kind of fun. Kind of boring. But I just can't rack up those 15+ kills the good ttk players do. I always thought aerospray was a wide spray/splatter type? It's like a longer range Jr. in most ways. But I suppose slower to kill...which is why SSPro is more front line while DS is more support...time to kill. (I still dont understand the success of Jr. in ranked. I know they slaughter me...and I'll never know how...I can't hit squat with that thing.)

    Interesting though because I'd consider a roller & blaster a "perfect aim" weapon. You need to aim it like a charger to get your ohko. And blasters, even if trying to flush out enemies behind cover you need to zone them out flawlessly. I'm a big range blaster fan. :D (But I forgot when you say blaster you mean luna. No zoning required there. :p)
     
  2. HypernovaSoul

    HypernovaSoul Semi-Pro Squid

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    I feel like they appeal more to the Splatoon players who are more traditional FPS fans, or are likelier to take on sniper roles in general when there's that option. Neither of those are me at all lol, which may explain why I'm so terrible with them. I'm sure I'd improve if I practiced, and when I have gotten kills with chargers it's very satisfying. I've noticed though that the higher you get in Ranked, the tougher it is to experiment with new weapons unless you get especially skilled with them in Turf Wars first.

    I do have to admit as many horrendously frustrating moments as I've had with E-Liters, when I come across unskilled E-Liters they seem really problematic for their team, they're so often sitting ducks and just can't seem to handle the horrible mobility of the weapon. It's those moments where I really see the E-Liter's supposed brush counter come into light. Inexperienced E-Liters I've been able to zigzag right up to with Octobrush, and they tend to panic when people get close. Although that really feels like a matter of not understanding how/when to rely on your subs, or they just aren't keeping watch of their ink tank. But it does also factor into E-Liter's strength being its huge weakness, that insane range causes crap visibility. I can always tell when they've readied a shot, but nowhere near the right direction lol. I would say a vast majority of people using E-Liters, or any charger, in upper tier Ranked have already gotten excellent at using them though.

    I do really love it, nerf or not, it'll always be my Ol' Faithful haha. :D And yes....Dynamo on Saltspray is rough, especially on Zones. It has basically only one option of safe approach, and if there's an enemy E-Liter that one option is often completely shut down. And yeah, it takes practice, but it is possible to run rushdowns and even flanks with Dynamo. I especially love doing it on multiple opponents, that's when it's even more viable if you can pull it off.

    Oh man, some people have ragged on the Gold Dynamo getting Splat Bombs, claiming it's redundant of its main attack, but I absolutely love having them. Granted, it's an amazing sub in general lol. Out of curiosity, is it safe to assume you're using Gold Dynamo? Or vanilla Dynamo? I've used both but Gold is what I main. Sprinklers and Echolocator are great for support but I feel like I need more offensive options in most Ranked modes.

    That's a very accurate description of the Dynamo, a support weapon that sometimes plays like a front line weapon. I think it's probably because unlike most support weapons, when its pressuring waves are successful it can actually push forward more easily than the average ranged weapon, or be surer that the area's cleared because of its coverage. Its mobility is the only real issue, but once you're accustomed to it you can be so much scarier up close.

    Honestly, it really depends on the mode and stage, whether I use Dynamo or one of my other mains. I tend to go with Octobrush for most Rainmaker matches nowadays, although I will sporadically switch to Dynamo. The Tri-Slosher is surprisingly reliable for Tower Control, especially on Bluefin. Hugely useful for pressuring beneath the tower and over walls, and the Disruptors are amazing for making opposing riders easy targets for teammates. Dynamo is extremely reliable in some mode/stage combos, very clunky in others.

    The strategy needs to be a bit different for Dynamo in RM, although I've used it enough that I'd like to think I've become more versatile. Steady swings from behind for support, Splat Bombs for surprise pressure / pushback from the bubble, Inkstrike for auto-bursts, Ninja Squid-flanks for escorting. I also happen to love transporting the Rainmaker myself lol, I'd say I've gotten pretty good at playing both offense and defense while holding it. Maybe that's why I enjoy the mode so much haha, it really fits my play style and I've gotten confident with it.

    What I will say though is that Dynamo can have some seriously rough matchups in upper tier Ranked, especially if it's going up against a team of speedsters with a charger for backup. In those scenarios, it's less viable to play versatility and safer to stick to support. Claustrophobic stages like Mackerel, Moray and Hammerhead, I generally don't use Dynamo, there's just not enough breathing room and its coverage feels crippled.

    That’s interesting you say you don’t like flanking, because personally I feel like that’s a roller’s most common role. Then again, it depends on which kit you’re running and the scenario. I’m yo-yoing between S & A+ myself nowadays, but what I have experienced is that as unforgiving as S is, and as many mid-range combatants, Gals, chargers and blasters there are, rollers need to keep their guard up much more often the higher the rank. Risk assessment becomes a much larger factor. There will basically ALWAYS be a Splash Wall user, and this is a huge nuisance for rollers. “I have the range advantage AND I’m behind a wall you won’t break nearly quickly enough. BYE.”

    Roller users sometimes head into S assuming they can maintain their bold offensive approach (it happened to me), and that can get punished so freaking hard by top tier players. Guns are king in S, generally speaking, from what I’ve seen. Because of this, unless you’re a Dynamo, you’ll ALWAYS be at a range disadvantage, and S players ALWAYS know how to exploit that. This is why I’m so adamant about this: if I’m running a close combat weapon in S, it MUST have a ranged sub/adaptable ability build. Every roller is usable in Ranked, but they need to be much more adaptable and cautious.

    Definitely. This is the same reason I don’t get Inkstrike hate…I can have an Inkstrike fully charged (if I’m wise with my Dynamo flings) by the time my team reaches the Rainmaker on Arowana Mall…boom, it’s instantly ours. Special-inflicted pressure is so much more valuable than people think, especially when it’s that final push needed to reach the goal. A well-timed Killer Wail or Inkstrike has literally cost my team the game, or allowed the win.

    I think rollers will always have a place in Ranked, but they should know their role can change depending on the stage/mode, and that they aren't always the best option for certain rotations, which I guess is the case for some other weapons too, especially non-shooters. You mentioned having problems running Ninja Carbon, that's largely probably because unlike Octobrushes, the Carbon is lightning fast but extremely short ranged. As where Octobrushes have a wider and more unpredictable splatter that could allow them to still circle foes unseen, the Carbon's flick is smaller and straightforward enough that if ink isn't already laid out for them, chances are Ninja Squid won't be of much use if they're already spotted.

    I'd say Carbon's great for stages that allow for a lot of movement and stealth, vanilla & Krak-On are great for Tower Control & Splat Zones if there's nooks and crannies for safe flanking/hiding, and Dynamo's great for stages with mid-sized perch options and wider spaces of breathing room to increase each fling's effectiveness. Rollers in general are also very, very good at escorting the RM. They can lay out a path extremely quickly, as well as take out foes laying in wait quickly or even by surprise. A lot of players lay in wait in RM when the opposing team is advancing, and this is something most any roller can really exploit.

    Yeah, I just can’t deal with it. With any weapon lol. And actually chargers aren’t even really my problem there. I would figure it gives them loads of visibility issues. It’s just such a hectic, obstacle-cluttered mess to me. My short ranged weapons can’t do anything because the methods of entry are a hot mess, and Dynamo is far less useful because everything blocks the ink coverage and it’s so much harder to retreat safely. And that random stupidly long fence bridge with NO ink-able areas…like seriously why? Why is it there? Ugh.

    I’d say you and I both use some of the weapons with very high skill floors and even higher ceilings, haha. Most chargers in general, of course. I would say the Dynamo as well, they can cause utter devastation but they take time to use effectively, especially if you’re accustomed to shooters or speedier classes. I remember using both the Dynamo and a charger for the very first time, both were kind of disastrous lol. It’s an easier fit if you’re used to slower weapons, but at the time I really wasn’t. I would say brushes (especially Inkbrushes) and Splatlings are also not pick-up-and-play weapons, they require some more investment from the get-go. Non-Luna blasters, same thing.

    As for lowest skill floors…Splattershots in general I think don’t take much getting used to, they’re the game’s bread-and-butter after all. They work in higher tiers due to their quickness-to-kill and solid subs/Specials, and of course the dreaded bunny hop technique. But they’re very straightforward and versatile enough that they don’t present much of a challenge to use, imo. Rollers have a low-ish skill floor as well, the vanilla ones anyway, but their tactics need to evolve in higher ranks more so than shooters. What’s your opinion?

    I’m sure there are many cases where it’s lag, but Attack Up on Tentateks can make for absurdly quick kills in general. And yes, I’ve been on the receiving end of N-ZAPs in a similar situation. It’s funny, because like you, I feel like I can’t kill nearly as quickly when I use the damn things myself. Same issue with the Jr….I feel like they can be so horrifying, yet they have supposedly terrible pinpoint aim….I’m again tempted to blame Attack Up stacking. >_>

    What I meant when I said making up for imperfect aim is more that weapons like rollers, some blasters and brushes have wider coverage than narrow stream shooters (squelchers, Aerosprays). If the enemy’s a bit to your side, you may still be able to kill them. Following the nerf, rollers and blasters required much more aim than they did before, yes. But for close combat weapons, generally speaking it’s more positioning than aim.
     
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    Yeah. I have lots of FPS experience but I'm not actually an online FPS fan (at all.) Splatton's the first online shooter I've found fun since Quake 1 in the late 90's.

    Yeah in ranked any weapon is hard to get into without being familiar with it in TW first, or at least not until you're familiar with a LOT of weapons. I can dominate with dynamo in TW for example, but I don't know how I'll handle with it in ranked. Worse, each mode really needs to be learned separately. I'm good with eliter in TW and TC, but haven't really established a role for it in RM that works yet, opting for splat charger more times when going charger in RM.
    But I spent almost 2 months playing eliters in TW before I even touched them in ranked.

    What's most frustrating is when you know you're not a bad eliter, but you know you ARE the sitting duck in a match. I can tell when I'm the liabiltiy. I think sometimes it might be a lag issue that I don't realize. Sometimes I'll go half a match without hitting ANYONE, missing every shot, and getting killed a few times, only to start racking up consecutive kills in the last minute or two, and it suddenly feels easy. If I were outmatched or having a bad match (which can certainly happen, I'm decent, even good, not great or ace!) then I wouldn't start doing well part way through. I have a feeling if I'm having lag problems that aren't as bad as teleporting I might not notice. Yesterday I DC'd twice in ranked due to some storms that were clearly messing with my connection. Played TW a while and found blotches of ink randomly appearing, ink from suction bombs appear just after the bomb was placed, seconds before it exploded, etc. It was awful. That kind of lag is disorienting in its own way. But subtle lag.... might be just enough to mess up eliter shots. Regardless, those times when I'm hitting nothing and missing every shot, I feel like the team would be better if I'd stayed on the spawn!

    I tried using vanilla eliter in a squad for the echo the other day and realized I've completely forgotten how to use burst bombs! :) I've played custom so much, and am so used to having to do CQC with the main gun I forgot how to even set them up! But normally, I think the problem eliters, new eliters, have is they try to sit fully charged, with the scope's tunnel vision to take the shot. That's disastrous for situational awareness. You have to charge as you aim so your tunnel vision only lasts for the duration of taking the shot. Otherwise, you're probably going to get flanked. The only time I get "easily" flanked ins on Depot....I trust my team is watching the opposite side if I'm watching one alone. I should have learned never to trust the competence of my team, but I still do it all the time. Inevitably I keep my side clear, and a swarm of 2 enemies pours up the other side and comes up behind me. :rolleyes:

    That figures, the one and ONLY time I've taken it into ranked so far, I take it into one of its worst map/mode combinations. :( And yes, there was an enemy eliter. AND a splatterscope. :mad:

    Yep, I'm running Goldie. I haven't bought vanilla yet, but I probably will give it a try. Sprinklers COULD be very useful for using it kind of hydra-like and creeping ever-forward as an anchor. But it's hard to give up splat bombs. They're so useful. I don't think of them as redundant. Dynamo's weakness is it's uselessness in tight corridors and around flankable corners....splat bombs fills that hole. I like inkstrike too very useful to pressure absolutely anywhere, but the splat bombs are more my reason for choosing it. First map I tried it on was skatepark. Pulling the old trick of placing a splat bomb on the tower and getting double kills, but then just getting up there and flooding a tidal wave over the whole map was too satisfying to give up. Sprinklers might not be bad too though.

    And yeah, I'm using it up close a lot. Had mixed results in Mahi TW yesterday. I think I did well (against 2 other dynamos!) but I missed more shots on the fling than I wished I had.

    Octobrush....scary up close, but I don't trust myself with it enough to try it in ranked. It sounds like such a useful tool for RM, moreso than inkbrush, but I just don't have a handle on it to leave 12 points on the line for it. :D

    That's interesting about Ninja squd: So you DO use NS with Dynamo? I was curious about that, because I'd think Ninja Squid's most useful trait is getting fast moving weapons quietly in position to strike. With Dynamo's huge size and slow windup, I was wondering if NS was kind of useless on it? I've been running mostly inksaver/recovery rather than speed related gear. Does run speed help it in any way since you're not running with it much?

    It's not so much that I don't like flanking, so much as I don't like base raiding (though certain maps I'll do it. Mahi stands out the most. Ancho-V plays similarly.) Flanking for 1on1 I don't mind, BUT I often run into the problem of not having the maneuvering space to do it in terms of friendly ink.

    Interesting what you say about roller play in ranked. It makes me consider the dynamo more seriously for more ranked modes. Splat roller interests me, and that wail DID save our tail in RM the other day even 3v4....and it's so much more fun than TTK for suction bombs. :D I wonder if shooters being king in S is just because the have a boost in weapon balance, or just because not enough people have explored other classes enough because shooters are easier to grasp? I also think it's absurd that ohko weapons can't break walls in one hit. How can a dynamo landing on your plastic framed wall NOT break it? :confused:

    Interesting about rollers and a bold offensive approach. I have a very DEFENSIVE playstyle (aggressively defensive, but defensive.) Not that I can't get offensive and aggressive if running down or charging a specific location or opponent. But I don't play "in your face" at all (Thus why I like chargers, hydras, range blasters, and dynamos, and my most favoritest shooter is the pretty long ranged SSPro :D

    Absolutely. I'm honestly baffled by how people view specials. Inkzooka is seen as the be all end all....but it's short range, short duration, awkward to use, some maps make them almost worthless (museum, ancho-v) and takes FOREVER to charge. Wails go THROUGH WALLS (well, so does inkzooka most of the time, but it's not SUPPOSED to :p) and remove an entire swath of map. Inkstrikes can be placed everywhere. And they charge so fast. Bomb rushes are of course brutal and well loved, but still wail and inkstrike charge much much faster.

    That wail is THE reason I can't give up on splat roller :)

    Now you're tempting me on octobrush. But I HATE button mashing! :confused: But it sounds like some of what I want carbon to be but isn't. I like the movement of a roller, but if I have dynamo and splat, maybe carbon should be swapped for octo! In either case I do like the defensive "lie in wait for incoming enemies" posture, so the bigger rollers are certainly of value there :) I usually use carbon that way a lot as well.
     
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    (Mods: Sorry for double post, but the forum software forced me to split the post due to length! Double post is easier to read anyway, so it chose well!)


    It's almost as though it's a...wait for iiiiit.....bridge! :p

    The trick for Hammerhead in Zones for chargers is simply: DO. NOT. PERCH. There's zero value to an above ground perched sniper when all the action is on the basement floor. It does play like a "slightly better Mackerel" I hate mackerel, but don't hate hammerhead zones as badly as most things on mackeral (hate hammerhead zones more than any other hammerhead mode though.) But it limits your weapon choices severely, which to me is a very bad stage design in a 74 weapon game.

    Funny thing is since I'm used to eliter & hydra, the two slowest weapons in the game (especially hydra, even from eliter that took a while to learn. I mean it's several SECONDS of wait time on every charge! So to me Dynamo feels like a little speedster. I cruise around the map with that thing :p

    Yeah, I fairly intentionally aim for high skill floor weapons....it's more interesting :) Interesting you'd say inkbrushes over octobrushes. To me it almost feels opposite. Inkbrush's problem is how map limited it can be. But it's rapid exit abilities make it great for hit & run tactics. Personally I think it's a terrible inker, which is a minority opinion. But the amount of sheer button mashing required to ink even fairly decently is almost abusive. It's a pure hit & run killer that has to rely on the ink laid down by others in most cases from my perspective. Sadly the trail it creates is too narrow for most RM carriers to use. The regular splatlings don't seem to be particularly high skill floor. They're easy to use (difficult to master) like the vanilla roller. Hydra of course is a whole different league, up there with eliter & dynamo :) I personally think effective use of vanilla roller might be more difficult than effective use of heavy splatling.

    I'd mostly agree about splattershots. The one that's hard to judge is SSPro. Technically its easier than the big slow weapons. I fall back on that when my favorites just aren't working out. But I remember first trying to learn it, and it was actually pretty difficult. It SOUNDED so good, and I couldn't play it worth anything. It wasn't until I learned chargers that I learned how to use SSPro, because it really plays like a charger. Poor turfing, poor ink efficiency, inks in straight lines (slowly), kills fast, has good range, and needs pretty dead-accurate aim.

    I thought attack up on tentateks and Jr.s was only for countering def. up, but didn't affect it's kill speed otherwise?

    I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem! Everyone raves about tentatek and Jr. I get butchered by them endlessly. I get repeatedly splatted over and over again by their onslaught. They always have double digit kill scores in matches. But when I play them? I get like 8/4 on a good day with a ttk and a Jr. I get like 3/6 :p Those things can't aim, they spray everywhere, you need to be in sploosh range to hit but without sploosh range or mobility. HOW are people making them so deadly? (Other than the dreaded bubbler spamming on Jr. which I suppose is the point.)

    Aerosprays are wide coverage IIRC. Slow to kill like you said, but wide (thus their turfing ability)
     
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  5. HypernovaSoul

    HypernovaSoul Semi-Pro Squid

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    Same here! Haha. Not an FPS fan whatsoever, but I think of Splatoon as a fully Nintendo-fied FPS, probably why I find it fun. And ugh. Lag issues are causing me more and more problems, so much so very recently for some reason. I got disconnected 4 freaking times yesterday….(accompanied of course by a BS loss of points)…and my wifi strength was just FINE on every other device. -_- I even tried disconnecting 2 separate devices from the Internet while playing, made zero difference. Seriously, if Nintendo doesn’t beef up the servers soon, I flat out will just have to not play when I disconnect at all.


    Sigh. Oh, the misguided bliss of thinking you can trust your teammates to handle their job. :rolleyes: Been there lol. I’m sure it’s even more of an issue as a charger, although I know when I’m running my close combat weapons I rely on my charger’s watch quite a bit as well in certain situations. But we of course usually all have to run off perception, intuition and assumption. One of the many problems Splatoon’s lack of voice chat causes.

    Yeah, I’ve seen some highly effective vanilla Dynamo users, but it is very, very much a support weapon. Its only real heavy offense is its basic attack, which limits its usefulness in certain scenarios. Splat Bombs are what I really see as the game’s bread-and-butter sub in general. They can’t stick to surfaces, but they detonate quicker than Suction Bombs and can travel further distances. And yes, better yet for Dynamo, they can scare off opponents from key areas or from getting too close. They are hugely useful for sure. And yup haha as I said, Gold Dynamo can just completely destroy Skatepark. One instance where I can enjoy Splat Zones, lol.

    I do run NS on Dynamo, yes, and I’ve found it situationally quite useful, but more so for pure stealth and safe retreats than rushdown flanks. I also have to admit to something that I probably shouldn’t be doing…I don’t generally change gear when I change weapons lol, I just tend to run the same build on all 3 of my mains. Which I know is not always the best idea, though one of my mains (Ink Saver) is hugely useful on all 3 since they’re such guzzlers. I’ve just come to rely so heavily on NS safety at this point that going without it feels crippling (one of a couple reasons I’m annoyed shirt gear is banned from Splatfests…).

    My current build is Ink Saver, Ninja Squid and Attack Up mains, plus Attack Up sub, 2 Ink Recovery subs, Quick Respawn subs and…others I can’t think of off the top of my head atm lol. Ink Saver main has seriously saved my life as a Dynamo, Jesus Christ. 5-6 flings instead of 4?! What sorcery is this?! Same with Octo, which also sucks up ink like there’s no tomorrow. Attack Up is there mainly for Octo, lightning-quick flank kills. Brushes in general actually, as scary as they seem, take way too long to kill without Attack Up. But I like to think they’re helpful for Slosher & Dynamo splatter as well. I have noticed my fling reach feels slightly larger after running Attack Up. Ninja Squid I’m just stubborn to give up because I love it so much, but I should experiment with other mains, especially for Dynamo. Run Speed Up I feel like is useful exclusively for shooters, and it really depends on your play style.


    Gotcha; well, personally I think many flanks, especially early match flanks, don’t involve actual base-raiding. It’s more about taking alternate routes, creeping up on perches, generally “stealthing” your way around, near or behind enemy territory, but usually not their actual base area. If this isn’t really your thing either, it’s equally possible to stick to the main path towards the objective and just get crafty within a smaller central area (which NS is hugely useful for, especially if your team has done well laying down ink).

    This is maybe why the Octobrush Nouveau ended up being the close combat weapon I stuck with: it has the quick-kill flanking abilities of Carbon, but can lay out wider splatters of ink to traverse (its “flicks”) and escape/maneuver even quicker (its basic paint trail). I was fascinated to find out that brushes lay down their basic ink trails at the equivalence of swim speed, I think the only weapons in the game capable of that (not sure how Carbon compares).

    Generally speaking, I think if your play style just isn’t adjusted to close confrontations, you may experience some trouble with non-Dynamo rollers as you rank up. Aggressive defense is great, but most A+/S rollers I see are very offensive players. They’re the ones who take people out and shut down pressure attempts, overall. In a highly stealthy manner, mind you, due to the issues I mentioned before in upper tier. The goal is to essentially not get aggressive until you’re already close enough to have the advantage. But, when you’ve got Suction or Burst Bombs to fall back on, you can definitely change up your approach a bit. If you’re wanting to run more of a defense/support role with the other rollers, I think that’d be a strong fit for Rainmaker, since as I said rollers can be excellent escorts depending on the stage.

    Yeah, same. Lol for the longest time…Inkzookas were like chargers to me. I felt like they were so overwhelming to be killed by, yet when I initially tried them, I was like “uh…how in the hell does anyone use this thing??” But now that one of my mains run it, I’ve realized how amazing it is. I wouldn’t say it’s the most useful Special in all situations/stages. Some stages in particular make it kind of useless (Hammerhead, Saltspray) because there’s just way too much in the way and you’re bound to be killed if you activate it in a poor spot. But that being said, it can cause such devastation if the opposing team is even moderately lined up. And even if they aren’t…they are sure to get the hell out of your way. My most common problem with it is that my team far too often doesn’t know to freaking ADVANCE…/TAKE the Rainmaker…CLAIM the tower…when I’ve cleared a huge path for them with it. :mad:

    Haha well, as I mentioned the brushes have a definite learning curve, and it may be even rougher to get used to since it sounds like you don’t enjoy flanking & your mains are primarily the slow heavy hitters. I sort of understand what you mean in terms of an aggressive defense as a roller, but personally I think that tactic will be much harder to implement with a brush. They’re very much rushdown weapons.
     
  6. HypernovaSoul

    HypernovaSoul Semi-Pro Squid

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    Yes, agreed. I just hate that the big central method of entry is an annoyingly long, un-inkable bridge that you either have to traverse around/underneath or just walk across for 15 minutes. Ain’t nobody got freaking time for that in Splatoon. You can never see anything coming because there’s millions of towers, walls and fences, and sudden deaths from random players who happened to be swimming up the wall right as you approached. Super Jumps are so unsafe because everyone’s clustered at the center, yet trekking there yourself is just tedious & horrible. Worst stage in the game, easily, imo.

    Yup, as I said, since you’re used to the slower heavy-hitters to begin with, it makes sense the Dynamo was a quicker fit. I don’t think this is the case with most people though, especially those who switch to it from other rollers. A friend of mine went from Carbon to Dynamo for the first time and was like “uh wut. This thing’s awful.” xD It’s all a matter of what you’re accustomed to I suppose.

    I absolutely think Inkbrushes are tougher to use than Octos, yes. Mainly because as I’ve mentioned before, they are very strictly close combat. Also generally not as versatile as Octos. They kill quicker than Octos, which is great, but they can have a big problem closing in for those quick kills because they don’t have pressuring/ranged subs. They tend to have to play like Carbons, relying heavily on their speed to avoid being taken out. I also actually agree with you, its specialty is not inking turf, I kind of feel that way about most brushes though. They are the game’s ninja assassins, plain & simple. Octos ink turf more effectively than Inks due to a wider spread, but even they don’t cover turf as quickly or effectively as Tentateks or rollers. The quick trail it lays down is much more for speedy escapes and runarounds than laying down trails for others, I also agree. But this is another learning curve aspect of all brushes, knowing when it’s best to splatter or ink trail.

    As for the Splatlings, I don’t think I’ve used Hydra at all yet so I couldn’t speak to that, but the stand-and-charge technique I think comes off as very foreign to most Splatoon players, unless they heavily main chargers. The Splattershot Pro I’ve also barely used, don’t really recall how it handled when I did. But I’ve seen some very good Pro users. Splattershots in general I feel like are, ironically, among the most common shooters in A/S. Tentateks especially, of course.

    Yeah…I really don’t know what the deal is there. Something having to do with technique I’m sure, or better/more frequent use of bunny hopping. Attack Up stacking doesn’t hurt, I’m sure, whatever effect it has. But along with rollers and chargers, Tentateks are THE most obnoxious weapons to experience lag against. Instant death out of nowhere….from a freaking shooter. And ugh…don’t get me started on Jr. Bubblers. Another Special that kind of needed a charge time nerf. It’s rare that I approach a Jr. and they DON’T already have a freaking Bubbler readied. Everywhere, always. :rolleyes:

    For Aerosprays, I can really judge based only on what I’ve observed because I only used them like once or twice ages ago and vaguely remember hating them lol. I feel like they are intended solely for Turf Wars. Whatever their width of fire, they’re terrible at killing. I saw one yesterday in Ranked though!! Lol…felt like seeing a unicorn. XD
     
  7. Wiebenjijzeg

    Wiebenjijzeg Full Squid

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    Syrnis
    I would say that the Gals are the best. I don't play them, but having a 2-hit kill with a huge range (especially .96) makes them unbeatable in the right hands. Also they can be used in pretty much any map (close or long range doesn't matter that much for it).
    The rapid blaster is in my opinion the best blaster type: Fastest firing rate, a perfect range for being versatile in many maps and the sub/spec are great to get out of corners or challenge longer ranged opponents.

    As worst weapon, I would say the (neo) sloshing machine. Even though I like using it since recently (as it is quite unique), there is simply so much wrong with it.
    Short range, actually only 2 or 3 weapons have a shorter range (luna blaster/ normal blaster/ tri slosher. 2-hit direct kill, 3-hit indirect and less reliable than other sloshers when shooting over obstacles.
     
  8. Award

    Award Squid Savior From the Future

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    Technically Splatoon is Peer-to-Peer, there is no "Nintendo Server" for gameplay, that's just for stats tracking and matchmaking. I've seen a lot of issues about "recently there's lag" which doesn't make too much sense in that context - one of the random players is the server. Sometimes it's you. When you disconnect, typically its your own connection but maybe not your wifi. We tend to forget that our "broadband" is also everyone else's broadband. If they're all streaming 1080p Netflix or torrenting the latest DotA release your bandwidth is going to suck. And particularly in the US our interent is awful by international standards. Terrain and so-forth. The real problem is nintendo's netcode for handling those issues is..."immature?" The reason it's P2P without hosted servers is because otherwise we'd need to subscribe to NN like PS+ and XBL. So when you get disconnects it's your end. When you see lag, it might be you, it might be your opponent. I never have a ping over 80 on speedtest. Usually under 50, but there's spikes. But there are certainly hiccups, stalls etc with any network. It's the fact that the lag wreaks such havoc in game that sucks. *4* disconnects? Ouch. 48p! Half a rank!

    And I make that mistake too often. With close weapons I NEVER rely on a charger. I'm grateful to have the overwatch, but I always assume the charger might miss the shot, because as a charger, I know how easily they can. People who don't main chargers always think of chargers as these magic guns that just make enemies disappear wherever they are. In reality it's this struggle where every time you release your finger you wait for confirmation to see if you really got them as you scramble to refill & recharge! You might wipe the floor with your enemies, you might not, but either way, you made them second guess themselves and take the long way. For a charger a kill you set up for your CQC teammate is just as good as one you got yourself if it helped!

    It's the shooters I foolishly rely on trusting "Ok, I have the left of Depot locked down all by myself. They're not getting past my eliter, no way, no how. The THREE of your are on the right, so I don't have to worry about getting flanked....I can focus on the squiffer challenging me down here on the lef....SPLATTED BY NZap89". And I realize half our base is painted by the enemy. :mad:

    People seem to gravitate to anything but splat bombs, but their ability to be bounced around corners like a billiard ball is priceless! Only problem is on dynamo that sub is an ink hog!

    I tried it yesterday....NS is great with it which amazed me. It took me a while to get into using the stealth...I kept forgetting I had it. And it was ancho-v zones....not much maneuvering room...at ALL. I think I hate that map/mode. But the NS was amazing and I was really doing a lot of 1v1 flanks. It's interesting...because I WAS doing rushdowns with it for a while. Maybe ending in too many trades I MIGHT have been able to outrange (but range abuse on museum and anchov zones isn't always easy.) The game was, as it often does when using a new-ish weapon to you pairing me in lobbies of 3 dynamos. I didn't see the other dynamos doing rushdowns. :p The advantage of coming to it as a carbon/eliter main I guess...it must have been a shock to my opponents watching one of the biggest, heaviest weapons in the game chasing them down melee again and again ;) Too bad my teams couldn't actually hold the zone despite my constant flood of ink over it and my 300 times I reclaimed it with bi-minute inkstrikes. :rolleyes:

    I'm trying to figure out a good build. NS is great. But that, to me, means needing swim speed up to compensate. Right now I have NS + Swim speed main and a few subs to give me slightly faster than normal speed. I do have ink recovery up main....not sure if I should change that to ink safer....ink recovery benefits splat bomb use though....hard choice. Not sure if I have attack up....wonder if attack is really useful for it?

    I'd think octo would mostly benefit from ALL speed related abilities. Does attack up really help it? Worth it enough to give up either swim speed or ink recovery/saver?

    You have me REALLY curious to give octo a try again. I didn't like it in TW, but i was trying to ink with it....

    Hmm, am I offensively defensive or defensively offensive with rollers? That's hard to determine. Offensive play, to me, means front-line assault. Either leading the base raid, or being the front line on the objective. Flanking and picking off lone squids to me is defensive more than offensive. Yeah escorting the RM is a big thing...and one of the reasons I'm even looking at octobrush. I seldom have escort when I have the RM, having to paint my path with the gigantic neon sign that is the RM tornado. I figure I might be more useful supporting the RM than carrying it (in some situations) if only so our team actually HAS someone escorting :p

    But if I could get splat roller to do the job as well... I have mixed feelings for splat roller's viability in RM..... But I keep second guessing carbon due to how easy it is to end up with a trade at that range, and the pockmarked battlefields in RM make it a little difficult to be a flanking ninja with it to get RIGHT into the perfect range.

    I appreciate inkzooka on carbon, though rarely. I'd probably appreciate it on octo too. But on everything else....it's awful. And I fear with octo it's hard to get it charged.

    Oh I don't mind rushdowns....I've run carbon after all. Actually that's how I've most gotten myself into trouble with hydra most often is the temptation to rush down your opponent when it's REALLY not a good idea with that thing even with Chydra's bubbler. :D I'm more into rushdowns than I am into true camping and base-raids/frontal-assaults. When I say "aggressive defense" that generally includes running down the enemy before returning to station ;)

    Oddly MOST of the time I like that map, but it just favors most of my weapons. Not rollers. But it's good for chargers (oddly I've seen other eliters say it's their most hated map, but personally it's one of my favorites for eliter :confused: At least in TW. I don't think I've taken eliter there in ranked modes yet, opting to play with rollers and shooters there.) It's good for hydra....good for SSPro and Aero.

    LOL, Well it probably is a big learning curve "Oh, you shouldn't roll with it" "But it's a roller!" "Yeah, don't roll it." :D I suppose that's a weird thought. I can see how if you're used to speed it would seem awful.

    That probably explains what I like about inkbrush...it's a lot like carbon. But it does make me worry if it carries the same problems for me in ranked that carbon has. Octo might be a better fit. Though I still have my doubts as to how viable that is for me too. :)

    As a dynamo main, you'll probably think hydra....is infuriatingly slow. :p It's the weirdest weapon in the game, bar none. Amazing if used well, but unfortunately a lot players don't support it properly, thinking it's an endless ink streamer that can level opponents all alone. It's an amazing defense tool that can be used near and far. But you can't let a hydra get swarmed. An eliter can handle ONE opponent. A hydra can handle TWO. You can NOT let either get approached by THREE. And you can't leave the hydra to clean up ink infested enemy camped territory alone. (Looking at you zone 1 in Mackerel!)

    Nzaps too! I'm so sick of laggy deaths from tentateks and nzaps! Both of those ohko through walls more than any other weapon. Even chargers. Yesterday I was killed by a *SPLOOSH* that was 5 feet away. But nzaps are so irritating with their deceptive range. They shouldn't kill fast, but they DO.

    Someone else that agrees on the broken bubbled Jrs! Finally! The problem isn't that bubblers charge too fast, it's that Jr. should have never had a fast charging sub like bubbler to begin with! it's the 3rd fastest inking weapon in the game behind aerospray and dynamo. Why does it have an insta-charge special? My experience is the same as yours....every Jr that gets near is bubbled! And when you respawn they're back....and bubbled again! I can't hit ANYONE with a Jr. so I still don't understand HOW they're so effective. But that bubbler is awful.


    Oh don't underestimate aerosprays too much! They can be quite deadly! I used it as a "turfer" back in my noob days, and like everyone else moved on fom that phase. Then I started finding myself getting splatted by them a lot, at ranges I thought were not possible for an aerospray to get me. I went back and relearned it and learned they can be pretty deadly. They're slower to kill than a JR but just as mobile and with better turifing and longer range. They don't have the cheap bubbler, but with their extreme turfing, the RG is just a big inkstrike cannon, and the MG can use seekers like a carbon deco for flanking and is the only weapon with inkzooka that charges it enough to be frequently available. I think MG is basically an inkzooka main with a free charger built in. :p

    RG seems SO perfect for zones. Inkstrike and mines....and I've been seeing them a lot in zones recently....but by bad players. When I DID try it in zones it didn't go well...but with its turfing ability it should have gone much better. So I'm not sure. I think time to kill is its weakness maybe. Like dual squelcher.

    If nothing else, as the #1 turfer in the game it can be considered a fantastic support weapon to continuously cover the turf to buy the team maneuvering space.

    Shame kill time seems to limit it though.
     
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  9. HypernovaSoul

    HypernovaSoul Semi-Pro Squid

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    I’m not particularly well-versed in the finer details of broadband width, but regardless I’m dissatisfied with how it all works in Splatoon. All I can see is that I have no trouble on my other devices, yet have sporadic instances of disconnects (multiple matches played, perfectly fine connection strength. Suddenly, at random, the connection appears to fizzle out completely and I can’t play to save my life). I know better than to download or play anything else while running Splatoon, so it’s really usually the only device being used at the time, most of the time.

    It’s more that it falls back on one of the things I hate about the points system. For every disconnect, no matter the timing, cause or who was actually responsible for it, everyone involved loses a full mass of points as if they’d lost the match. I understand the (debatable) difficulty of identifying rage quits vs. disconnects, but I’m still very annoyed about how it’s structured. PlayStation All-Stars ran a similarly structured online multiplayer, peer-to-peer, and it was equally ridiculous. Made for such huge variations in connection strengths. As enormous as Nintendo and its community has become, if they really don’t have their own freaking servers for hugely popular games by now, they should. Given how they've already updated their Nintendo Network to something substantial that pretty much all online players must log into, I don't imagine that would be a problem. And yes…it was a stupid amount of points lost cumulatively but at different times. It dragged me down to A, which I’m furious about. :mad: Stupid me for thinking playing at different times would make a difference in this randomized sporadic issue...

    When I say I “rely” on a charger, I definitely don’t mean I count on/expect them to take people out for me, but to at least apply pressure if they’ve claimed an ideal perch. While all the mid/close range combatants are in the fray, they of course need to stay much further back but should remain equally engaged. A better way to word it may have been, I like being able to work together with a charger to apply both distanced and up-close pressure, which as you mentioned can lead to nice “teamwork” kills. It is just frustrating on the occasions I see chargers seemingly sitting on their thumbs from their perch or constantly scrambling to find one, though that’s probably usually a case of an unskilled charger/a more skilled charger in a disadvantaged situation. But this of course can be applied to most any teammate not carrying their weight.

    I totally get your frustration of having one side covered while the team completely fails to check another, though I’d imagine it can be tougher for melee teammates to watch a charger’s back because they’ll so often be in completely different areas, and they haven’t got the vantage point. That being said, checking for flanks should be a constant from pretty much everyone involved…as an example, on Depot I ALWAYS check when I respawn how many teammates are on each side. If there’s already 2 on the right and only 1 on the left, I’ll go left. It of course depends on where the Rainmaker/tower/zone is at the time, but generally speaking I hate when teams cluster in one spot when they don’t need to. It leaves huge areas open to the enemy for advancement, and also for charger flanks. Also hugely increases the risk of them all being killed at once. :rolleyes:

    Oh man haha, that’s one of THE most frustrating things as a Dynamo user….when the team completely fails to claim the massive opportunity dropped in their laps by Inkstrike. Ok…we have the zone. I just GAVE us the zone. I JUST freed the Rainmaker. You’re ALL right there, and I just Inkstriked…and…there it goes. Another thing I think people don’t realize often enough-Inkstrikes and Killer Wails create insane flank and stealth attack opportunities. The enemy’s focus will obviously be on the humongous Special, if they’ve escaped its path, it can still be used as a massive smokescreen to safely approach them and kill them yourself. I’ve gotten SO many kills this way. I love being able to walk right through my own Inkstrike and punish that one Inkling who assumes they safely escaped. An Inkstrike combined with invisible Dynamo swings…a fearsome combo indeed. :D

    Haha yeah, people in general seem less likely to expect the NS+Dynamo combo, which I’ve been able to take advantage of many times. It’s really that ability that opens up melee/close combat opportunities for the weapon in the first place. Ehhhh…I was playing yesterday too, same stages, unfortunately they’re both an example of what bothers me about SZ. Dynamo should be useful there, but it isn’t so much because of all the crap in the way. Ancho-V is another example of great in certain modes, awful in others. I enjoy the unique challenge it presents in Rainmaker, Tower Control is fairly fun too, SZ on it is just kinda weird with all the moving platforms and low ceiling obstacles.

    I’m still sort of tinkering with builds myself, though this one has been quite a bit more useful than my last (which ran Ink Resistance, and that’s now kinda useless following its nerf). I agree I may want to switch to a Swim Speed Up main to make up for NS, though I believe I’ve already got a sub or two for that. It would most likely replace Attack Up, which I agree has debatable usefulness on Dynamo. Ink Recovery Up is great for Dynamo, though I personally prefer Ink Saver just because it’s better to be able to get those extra flings off immediately as opposed to recovering from them quicker. Running both definitely doesn’t hurt.

    From my experience brushes actually need Attack Up if they want real lightning kills, because keep in mind as fast as they may seem, with no ability buffing it takes several flicks of a brush to kill. Base damage of 1 flick on Octobrush is 37, even lower on Inkbrush (28). To put things into perspective, that’s just a smidge more than one Aerospray shot. Atack Up essentially reduces the number of flicks needed, and increases splatter damage, which is a big help on such a splatter-based weapon. Of all my mains, Attack Up is most needed on the brush. And it has trustily allowed me incredibly quick kills. Octobrush is a highly effective ninja killer with this build, but with its slower flick speed (compared to the Inks, in exchange for more damage) you don’t want to give opponents that extra reaction time. I feel like brushes are also unique in that they are “bewildering” weapons; their flicking animation is distracting and can slightly hinder enemy visibility of the target, which can make the user harder to hit directly. Maximizing that tactic can make speed boosts even more advantageous. I’m probably making a lot of assumptions in terms of Attack Up’s usefulness elsewhere, but I swear it does make me feel like I have a greater range-to-kill on my slosher & Dynamo. :p

    Haha, well, if you used it mainly in TW, that explains why you didn’t like it. As we discussed, brushes are not inking tools (ironic as it sounds). They are speedy killers, so they are actually structured much more so for Ranked. If you’re practicing with it in TW, I’d suggest focusing more on getting comfortable with its maneuverability, stealth and surprise attack tactics, though that doesn’t necessarily help the team in TW.

    In that sense, yes, I suppose I see better where you’re coming from in terms of aggressive/offensive defense. I originally thought you meant you were likelier to lay in wait/attack oncoming threats, as opposed to rushdowns or flank-seeking.

    It frustrates me when a team has ample opportunity to escort the Rainmaker…and yet doesn’t. This doesn’t mean everyone should cluster around it…that in fact can lead to disasters…but there should be someone clearing/laying the path ahead, someone on backup behind the Rainmaker, and someone flanking/sniping from a perch/opposite end, in the ideal scenario. The Rainmaker’s tornados can of course be amazing and shouldn’t be underutilized, but when the holder has to spam them for all methods of advancement and attack because the team isn’t providing backup, it’s usually a problem.

    If you’re running NS, you’ll have a bit of an easier time with the other rollers in RM. But yeah, escort would be your safest role depending on the stage and scenario.

    I love Inkzooka, but with its ridiculous charge time I agree it’s tough to rely on sometimes. It’s taken me some time, but now that I’m more experienced with my Nouveau, I know when it’s time to back off, finish that last bit of charge, and then return full swing with the Special.
     
  10. HypernovaSoul

    HypernovaSoul Semi-Pro Squid

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    Another 2-parter, lol:

    Inkrbrushes and Octobrushes have a lot of similarities, but in some ways they’re just totally different breeds. I can’t really speak to how well Inks fare in upper tier Ranked because I haven’t really risked it recently myself, and almost every single time I see a brush in A/S it’s an Octo. Inkbrushes can just find themselves in SO many rough situations with the constant range disadvantage and complete lack of versatile subs/Specials. The vanilla Ink can be a solid supporter, but it’s a bit of an awkward mix since you have such a support-heavy sub and Special with a very assault-based main attack….with no solid options to help close in. Splat Bombs and that extra width/damage of ink spread are seriously the saving graces of Octos over Inks. It opens up SO many more options and safety nets.

    I come across very formidable Inkbrush users occasionally, but it’s exceedingly rare in upper tier and I’m sure they had to learn how to tread very carefully. I don’t think they’re bad weapons by any means, I just think they have a heavy learning curve and really limit your options in many Ranked scenarios.

    Lol well, I’ve used both the vanilla Heavy Splatling as well as the Zink Mini, and I actually enjoyed both quite a bit. Didn’t fit enough with my play style to stick with them, but I remember doing very well on Depot Zones with the Mini, got loads of kills by switching between the central mid-sized perches. It strikes me as similar to the Bamboozler, people think they know what to expect from that class but it can take people out from further away, yet faster, than you’d expect. Not sure how different of an animal the Hydra is compared to vanilla, but I can imagine.

    Ohh, from what I’ve seen quite a few people are really annoyed with Jr. Bubbler spam lol. Yeah, I agree it maybe just wasn’t the best Special to give the weapon, but I wouldn’t mind the Bubbler taking a bit longer to charge in general. It is after all a Special that grants complete invincibility that can be SHARED with the team….although that would make some other weapons suffer as a result, specifically the Classic Squiffer (speaking of weapons that shouldn’t have gotten that Special, but for different reasons…). I just can’t even comprehend how the Jr. just ALWAYS has it handy. Really obnoxious.

    I have come across skilled Aerosprays that can actually rack up some kills, but it’s unbelievably rare in A/S nowadays. There are flat out just better options, unless you’re especially attached to the weapon/kit itself. I agree its turf coverage can make it very useful for support, but overreliance on pure support tactics can be really problematic in Ranked from my experience. You really need to be able to kill, because it’s just SO aggressive and competitive. Some Aerosprays have certainly learned to do so, but others.....not so much lol.
     
  11. Award

    Award Squid Savior From the Future

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    Could be your local wifi too. Lag can be many issues upstream (and in the US it often is), but disconnects....I've been seeing them. The one day was weather related so there's that. I got one yesterday. Not sure if it was me or the host player. But the OTHER WiiU in my house started getting "connetion unstable" and disconnects almost constantly. I pulled the WiiU from the A/V rack (which is metal with a mesh in the back...pretty much a Farraday cage :p and it's (hopefully!) been fine ever since. But it was never a problem before until suddenly it was! Some people use wired connections with a Wii LAN adapter for that reason. I have an enterprise grade wireless AP which is part of the difference....WiFi doesn't always suck...just consumer WiFi does. Enterprise/industrial generally has robust antennas and higher broadcast power.

    But the core problem with the lat is that Nintendo simply has horrendous netcode designed for Japanese internet where it's basically all LAN performance. All online games are affected badly by US lag. But Splatoon has HORRENDOUS prediction. The issue with teleporters jumping off the same ledge 3 times (but they never jumped at all!) is the game ASSUMING they were going to jump off the ledge, drawing them jumping off the ledge, then getting an update showing them still on the ledge and changing them back there. ALSO, it appears the ink map is transmitted separately from the player action data. So the ink map sometimes won't draw even when you're painting. Or updates BEFORE player data (in splotch from a suction bomb while the bomb is still sitting there waiting to detonate.) Hitscan weapons (chargers) still count the kill MOST of the time, if your system showed it clean (but not always), but other weapons like rollers, it just vanishes into nothing. Chargers the issue though is, if you don't get the shot before it teleports and "corrects" you still miss, but now your tunnel vision is elsewhere.

    Having real servers would be nice, but running a gaming server farm is *VERY* expensive. that's why MS and Sony finally had to start charging monthly. Letting every WiiU sold be a server is pretty much free. Having server capacity for every WiiU sold means facility space (rent, insurance, electricity, ventilation, backups/generators) physical servers, staff to maintain it, PLUS the servers would be in Japan so we'd ALWAYS have Japan lag. If NX/Splatoon 2 has dedicated servers, prepare for a monthly fee!

    Yeah except as an eliter, I probably shouldn't BE respanwing to check ;) If 3 teammates in the right pit of Depot don't see an enemy go up their wall....something's wrong (more likely my team pressed to the enemy base from a weak position leaving the well and wall undefended.)

    Yep! I really love the big specials everyone seems to hate. Their frequent use makes them so useful!

    Ancho-V....I'm starting to hate that map. None of my preferred weapons do well there, and it's so CQC all the time. It's like luna/gal central. Dynamo can do ok. IF the team buys space. Chargers are such a pain....the rising fan walls just get in the way from most positions and unlike most maps if you drop into mid, you're in for a bad time. In TW its fun....I think removing the rear drop in some modes really hurts it. Museum isn't so bad for dynamo....most of my carbon roller tricks still work with it :) But you can't take the whole zone yourself save for inkstrikes, you have to be content with taking half and leaving the other half for the team.

    The advice on dmg up on brushes is invaluable! Personally with dynamo, I think dmg up is a wasted slot though!
     
  12. Award

    Award Squid Savior From the Future

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    (Another 2-part answer due to forum software thread character count limit.)


    You're right....so....I tried ocotobrush nouveau in RM this weekend. And it was fantastic! I've added it to my mains now..... it just played so well in RM and I finally found a weapon (other than SSPro) that I can really perform consistently in RM with! The flank opportunities and double/triple kills were fantastic and RM path carving actually worked. Sadly the RM carriers on my randoms teams often have a penchant for NOT using the wonderfully wide traversal path I can create for them...which is highly annoying. But overall I was the k/d leader most matches frequently in double digits which surprised me. Trying to paint is still trigger mashy and annoying, but a requirement in RM. But overall it has the great balance of being a killer, and facilitating map manueverability I was looking for! Being low profile also helps a lot in RM. I can't believe you convinced me to be a brush main too! :p

    Yeah, that's how random usually is. If I get the RM, I try to see (if there's time) if the team already has a trail painted. Usually they don't...they're fighting. I'll take the biggest ink trails and spots I can find and try to just hop my way closer to the goal. I only fire the tornado if I NEED to to make a path or ink a wall....which alerts enemies. Then I often NEED to try to fire it, too often point blank, meaning I don't get a charged shot, meaning I kill nothing, to defend myself. It's rarely fun that way. I do wish I were better in using it as a weapon though. One can say I should wait for backup rather than rushing forward, but with a big glowing target, waiting for backup usually doesn't work well either, and plenty of times kamikaze runs to the goal is what put our best number on the board (even if its a losing number) for the rest of the game. Sometimes its what buys the lead.

    I love the zink too! I don't use it often but it can do quite well! Hydra...the thing is it can kill quickly close even with a tiny charge. But a full charge is everything. That long sustained barrage can triple kill any clustered opponents. Vanilla heavy has a hard time getting to the 3rd. Like an inkzooka enemies just have to hide until the barrage ends. That's is strength and its weakness.

    I'm feeling like inkbrush is too specialized. Deadly for camping, but in general I think octobrush is the stealth flanker...I feel like inkbrushes' streangth isn't trying to stealth it. Its the fast rolling speed that makes it great for in-the-open rapid raids. You can't stop it or slow it with ink when rolling, and it's all but impossible to snipe. It can move openly, get the kill, get out, and irritate chargers and defenders with base raids and flanks, kind of like sploosh but faster and impervious to ink. But in random ranked it's hard if not imposisible to use that on a team strategy. I feel like it's a role better defined for squads/clans where player role and strategy is a pre-planned affair. Octobrush is more versatile for handling any odd situation without a predetermined role on the team.

    Yeah...I still can't love squiffer....the main gun is great, but the kits really let it down. Both kits are deeply flawed. A great squiffer user can be a problem in a match, but overall, I can't love the weapon due to the kits. I think other bubbler weapons are fine with how they use bubbler....they take a while to charge them, they're all poor turfing weapons. Even with sprinklers Chydra takes a while to charge and runs out of terrain to do it. And its low mobility prevents it from abusing the bubbler (you really CAN"T raid a base with the thing so it's purely defensive bubbler use.) Jr.s are just abusive. And while I'm not great with that weapon, too many times if any weapon is going to be trouble for me, it's a bubbled jr, or charger user that's generally of a higher proficiency than myself, or an abusive splashwall gal. Also tentateks....but that's just because they're so many of them. The problem with the abusive bubbler jr. is there IS no counter for them. Even the abusive wallgals can be flanked or bombed. The bubblered jr you just have to hide and wait!

    I've seen a number of them in the A's....the RG...which shocks me. Yeah, well bad aerospray users that got into them in TW, certainly can't kill well with them. But I'd think (hope?) In the A's anyone using an aero has learned to kill with them :) I've seen some that HAVEN'T, but I've certainly been splatted by them, especially in close maps like Ancho-V. I didn't get it to work, but i know it DOES work....and has deceptive range! I should try it again. MG fan myself...those seekers are useful for flanking. Though Gold is great for zones. I use aeros like splooshes/Jrs. without the invincibility. ;)

    BTW, I was having trouble with both Dynamo and octobrush until I added ink resistance. Both DO need it IMO. It's not as effective post-nerf, no, but enemy ink stops being devastating glue that prevents you from repositioning Quick retreats around a corner became possible with dynamo, and brush was able to run down through enemy ink spots easily and not get bogged down by an enemy backing away while flinging. So my build on both is similar now. Brush is ink resist/NS/Speed, dynamo is NS, speed, saver main (for the extra flick or 2) But debating between refill and saver still. And I have some refill sub.

    Confession: This weekend I became one of those damage stacked burst bomb mains (vanilla eliter.) I'm still a speed/jump build Custom for TC, and now, apparently octobrush for RM. But Zones - the Dynamo doesn't work out on mackerel, so I was running splat charger. But I kept missing my range from eliter....taking shots that I expected to hit but I couldn't reach. Especially since Piranha was in rotation too. it wasn't working. So I decided to go back to Eliter.....but I kept facing too many CQC situations in mackerel Zones.....beacons weren't going to cut it. So I went back to unscoped vanilla eliter. It was going better.....getting back into using burst bombs. But they weren't doing enough damage, and there was STILL too much CQC. I frequently had to do double tap shots....and they weren't killing. So I did it. Stacked 3 main, 3 sub dmg ups. And FINALLY was able to win. Burst cancelling with the 1-shot, triple bomb hits worked reliably for once in CQC, and the dreaded rapid 2-shot was ACTUALLY killing finally. I'm not as into the idea of nerfing stacking now :p I have sympathy for the purpose for it all.... in random ranked especially zones in close maps, you're rarely ever GOING to to get a charged ohko shot. It's all about boosting the 2hko and burst bombs. And much as I hate cheap burst bomb mains, it saves eliter as viable on maps it otherwise wouldn't be viable. particularly in rotations where one map is eliter favorable and one is not. Custom has no place in zones, sadly.

    I will say opponents were probably surprised at an eliter that DIDN'T use burst bombs before missing with the main gun and falling back waiting to be chased down. And more surprised at a "burst bomb" eliter that was taking them out close range with 2 main gun hits. The benefits of learning on Custom. ;) But yeah...the stacked damage...became actually NEEDED there. What's broken in TW, is essential in Zones. Especially in randoms where "if you don't carry the team you lose."
     
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  13. HypernovaSoul

    HypernovaSoul Semi-Pro Squid

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    Yeah, honestly the disconnects are far too unpredictable and sporadic for me to think it’s (completely) a fault of my own. I know server farms are expensive to maintain, but frankly now that Nintendo is running a good amount of online multiplayer games with growing competitive communities (Splatoon, Smash, Mario Kart, Pokemon), they really should consider it as an investment (which I’m sure they could afford). As for having to make monthly payments, if it were reasonably priced I wouldn’t necessarily mind that, although I’d expect some nice additional / exclusive features in return. I don’t know what the ideal solution is for all parties involved, but as is Nintendo still really needs to work on its online multiplayer in general. At least they've improved from the travesty that was online Brawl. :rolleyes:

    I’d say loads of stages are Luna/Gal central, nowadays lol. ;) Yeah in Zones Ancho-V presents similar problems to Hammerhead…a ghastly comparison, but it’s true. There’s just too much moving crap and oddly positioned obstacles, so if a Luna or Gal has already claimed the center, it’s ridiculously hard to reclaim unless you can pressure them away with a sub or Special. To be honest, I barely play at all when it’s Zones anymore. I’m just so burnt out on the mode and the obnoxious scenarios that can be created by terrible stage/weapon combinations. Blackbelly, Triggerfish, Urchin and Flounder are the main occasional exceptions.

    Ugh. Museum is awful, from my experience, in Zones. That giant contraption in the center of the zone I swear makes for absurdly disproportionate turf coverage. There have been SO many times I SWEAR my team should’ve claimed the zone with the amount I’ve drenched, and yet nanoseconds later it goes to the opposing team instead. :rolleyes:


    Glad I could help with the brush advice! :) It was something I learned the hard way haha. I probably will eventually remove Attack Up when I’m playing Dynamo, I’m just debating what to replace it with. I’m considering Swim Speed Up or Quick Respawn. Although as huge of a target as I am, I’m thinking about Defense Up as well.
     
  14. HypernovaSoul

    HypernovaSoul Semi-Pro Squid

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    Yup yup, it’s such a reliable weapon in that mode, save for some stages where range rules. It really specializes in multi-kills, hugely exploitable when teams cluster together and can’t see you coming. There have been so many times I’ve Ninja’d towards a freed Rainmaker and literally cleared out every opponent swarming in on it. Range disadvantages suck, but it really makes you realize that if you can close in, it’s usually the gunners that have the huge disadvantage. Because they have to aim, they just can’t react quick enough. K/D ratios can be so insane when I’m running this weapon. I’ve absolutely slaughtered with it lol, but it is because as I said they are absolutely killing weapons. Teammates just have to use those opportunities to advance…which, many times, they don’t. Welcome to the brush club! Lol. ;)

    Pressure is very important in Rainmaker, but it’s a little frustrating when teammates get caught up in advance-camping into enemy turf as opposed to making any effort to escort the RM. I’ve taken the Rainmaker myself enough times to have a better impression of when it’s time to wait it out, attack or just make a mad solo dash. I don’t always make the right call for sure lol, but it’s interesting what you can do sometimes if you play the Rainmaker attacks correctly. I’ve actually fended opponents off up close by bunny hopping while charging, and sidestepping or swimming up walls in directions they wouldn’t expect. I’ve also noticed it’s hugely important for a Rainmaker holder to know when they should and shouldn’t engage with enemies.

    Generally speaking, I don’t worry as much about the tornados “alerting” enemies (although they definitely can), because chances are anyone actually paying attention will know where the Rainmaker is, at least its general vicinity, at any given time. That being said, if a path is cleared in the right direction and the enemies seem preoccupied, there’s absolutely no reason to do anything but beeline for the goal. Usually the only time I wait for backup is if someone’s already in the process of Super Jumping to me and proceeding any further alone is highly likely to be unsafe.

    Splatlings are a lot of fun, but like chargers they seem to be really crippled by awkward obstacles and walls. I wouldn’t mind trying them again more often, but wouldn’t dare run them on certain stages.

    Yeah, they aren’t my thing because of that. I had some very successful runs on TC with Inkbrush Nouveau, just because its rapid kills, Bubbler and Ink Mines were a nice pairing for the mode, but gawd its range limitations are really terrible in so many scenarios. Ninja Squid and teammate assistance are literally the only options of approach, and they’re too often unreliable. It has its speed, yes. But you have to be a real expert in both stage layout and your own maneuverability to mad dash in plain sight and expect the same kill potential.

    Generally speaking, I think Bubblers are mostly useless on very long range weapons. Krakens at least have a more feasible method of approach and speed up your attack option, but a charger or Hydra activating a Bubbler from a million miles away doesn’t do much good. Chargers and Hydras generally need locator or AOE Specials, imo. Rushdown Specials are just so awkward on them. I get it’s to aim for versatility, but the reality is if you try to rushdown as a Squiffer or Hydra, you’re a giant squatting target the second the Special ends. I actually saw someone retreat to spawn AS a Kraken the other day, because of that fear, I’m sure. But it was hilarious….I’d never seen a Kraken Super Jump animation before. XD

    Yeah, from my experience you can’t counter a Jr. Bubbler much at all unless you’re a conveniently positioned Squelcher with a full tank and are able to spend your time abusing range to keep them pushed back. Beyond that, it’s just the flee for your life option.

    Ink Resistance was honestly one of the best abilities in the game before the nerf. Made maneuverability SO much easier. But afterwards, the difference felt minimal to me, too minimal to warrant a main slot. I can try running it again, since I will say with zero resistance enemy ink does feel like freaking hot glue, and that has been a problem for me multiple times. Ah, the days of moving at full speed through enemy ink while Dynamo flinging or even launching my Inkstrike…long gone lol. It also kinda sucks that it’s one of the “exclusive” abilities, so it’s only available on shoes (which I’m currently using for Attack Up) and can’t be stacked…so that one boost is all you get. I get excessive stacking could become a problem quick on that ability, but given what quicksand-tar enemy ink is normally, a tad more of that option could work.

    I have to admit, after our conversations and hearing your point of view, I’m a little more empathetic towards charger users and have a better comprehension of their real pros and cons. I’ve actually started observing more closely not only when their shots hit, but when they don’t, and I’ve realized how hard they have it in instances of lag, especially against speedy foes. I’ve always had respect for people who can use chargers well (without over-abusing certain mechanics), but I rage against them less following a closer assessment of your explanations, as well as the hard realization that they are just my main’s primary counter, which I suppose makes sense, and that’s just something I’ll have to incorporate into my strategy.

    My issue remaining with stacking is that it allows players to fit a circle into a square…essentially, buff a weapon that is/would/should be a very poor fit for a certain rotation to the point that it’s suddenly a huge unexpected threat in nearly all stages. This is frustrating mainly because that option isn’t available to every kit-quite the opposite in fact. Burst Bombs should be for pressure, not devastating damage, point blank. They’re far too fast to inflict the latter. Burst-canceling I have another issue with in and of itself, because again it can open up debatably broken rapid damage output in some scenarios. But again, this is really all debatable and I understand that from the charger perspective there can just be too many unfavorable scenarios without ability buffs to rely on. CQC weapons and snipers may never really fully understand each other’s woes lol, aside from rare players like you who have managed to main a little of both. ;)
     
  15. モモコ

    モモコ Inkling Cadet

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    Nintedo can help things by having direct ethernet not usb. On computer I get much slower speeds though the attachment.
     
  16. birdiebee

    birdiebee Inkling Commander

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    Can anyone explain to me why I am 10x worse with the Octobrush when compared to Inkbrush despite the fact that they are universally recognized as the superior weapon???? Am I not mashing hard enough??????????????????
     
  17. モモコ

    モモコ Inkling Cadet

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    hard? well I can't play brushes because I can't hit fast enough, only way to know is watch others. They are not for everyone since they depend on getting in close. They are good weapons to ink with but not really "universally recognized as the superior weapon" inkbursh better inkspread, octo easier to splat (I think anyway, I am no good with brushes)
     
  18. birdiebee

    birdiebee Inkling Commander

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    I meant hard as in fast. Haha, whoops.

    I know that inkbrush has its advantages over octo, but octo is almost always considered to be more viable. As @Award mentioned, octobrush excels in less predictible situations whereas inkbrush is fairly limited to more scripted roles which are difficult to coordinate in random matches.

    I'm also quite weak with brushes, but I have just personally had more success with inkbrush... but since octo is considered more viable by the majority of the competitive community I am sure there must be something I'm not doing right with them. I can never get kills xD
     
  19. モモコ

    モモコ Inkling Cadet

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    focus is on splatting more, that is why (my guess)
    inkbrush gets turf better and there is different ways use that well (I think, like I said I can't play them, this is just what I think from watching)
     
  20. sammich

    sammich Inkling Cadet

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    with the squiffer's not-particularly-impressive range for having the charge time it does, the bubbler is mostly a way i can combat whiffed shots, ninjas, and MMFFING bubbling jrs.

    i think a good way to change bubblers is to increase its traction when fired at but give it some lag on deployment and possibly die even faster when shared. squiffer becomes nearly useless when in a bubble if your opponent is using a shooter weapon. getting shoved around makes it much harder to aim and also tends to get you stuck against a wall or pushed off the stage since we can't put on the same pressure shooters can. if we had more traction like when splatoon first came out, at least we could use the bubble effectively... then to keep it from being OP, the lag on deployment would mean you can't use it to escape from certain death at the last second after taking 1 or 2 hits from an opponent who outplayed you. you'd have to play smarter and pre-determine when to use it.

    *crai*
     

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