Why Competitive Splatoon should use all Game Modes instead of one

[Captain Norris]

The point of this thread is that ALL of the Game Modes should be used btw.

...I know that. I read the OP.In fact, I read most of the thread. And it appears that there is a disagreement. so even though this thread is about all modes being accepted, there is more to it than that. My example of "If the meta calls for Turf War solely?" was just that: a far-out example that wasn't meant to hold any ground. I doubt that will happen, but there is a chance.
This thread cannot be solely about accepting all modes without the discussion of certain modes being or not being allowed.
I just do not appreciate someone quoting me just to say"wrong."
I apologize for anything rude I say above as that was not my intention. However, I am still going to stand firm at what I said.

 

[Deleted Member]

but, out of all of them, TW is more luck based.

There is nothing luck-based about Splatoon except the RNG responsible for abilities and ink projection from weapons like flinging rollers, .96 Gal, etc.

There is not a single, complete focus. All the other modes have what they need to be competitive. The Focus. Take over this area. Keep hold of a tower. Get that "flag" to the zone. Turf War? Spread Ink everywhere, hoping that the opponents are spreading as much.
Turf War also leaves many weapons that are nearly not viable compared to the other modes.

Turf War's objective is to cover the map with the most ink. That is the single complete focus of Turf Wars. Splatting the enemy team is a means to an end like other modes, but has less of an impact in Turf Wars. I believe the reason why people dislike or dismiss Turf Wars is due to the less confrontational metagame and unconventional objective.

But as I said: The community must make the final decisions.

Of course, but its simply too early to write Turf Wars off as casual and non-competitive. Wait until a few weeks/months after the August update to make a more finalized and accurate analysis.

If the meta calls for Turf War solely? Fine, we will play turf War. But once the decision has been made, we cannot risk the community splitting.

Turf Wars won't be the main attraction of the competitive community. And at this rate, it feels like Turf Wars won't be a part of the competitive community at all, which will risk splitting the community.

 

[Kaliafornia]

Ok fine. there is some competitive play on it. but, out of all of them, TW is more luck based. There is not a single, complete focus. All the other modes have what they need to be competitive. The Focus. Take over this area. Keep hold of a tower. Get that "flag" to the zone. Turf War? Spread Ink everywhere, hoping that the opponents are spreading as much.

I agree with you on viable weapons and community decision aspect but I disagree that TW doesn't have a clear focus. The focus is cover the most turf. The strategy for success is simple cover as much on your side as possible and then always advance towards the enemy taking them out/pushing them back and covering their ground in the process. You can't just focus on covering ground without any strategy or splats and you cant just focus on splatting them without covering Turf. Both approaches to TW alone set you up for failure you have to do both simultaneously.

(LOL I am defending TW way too much in this thread for not wanting it in competitive but I like the debate/discussion).

 

[AnchorTea]

@AnchorTea
I don't care if the community decides on turf war being the standard mode in tournaments. I'm just saying we need ONE definitive mode. If we use every mode in tournaments the community will become segregated. If we have one mode, everyone will join together and have the opportunity to attend the same tournaments as one another. Imagine some one wanted to enter a tournament using all 4 modes (TW, Zones, TC, and RM). If their main weapon can only be put to good use in one mode, they might have to main up to 4 DIFFERENT WEAPONS. That's nuts. Why not allow competitive players to focus on one mode and one main weapon?

But not everyone can enjoy that one definitive mode. The community can actually be segregated on disagreeing with only one definitive mode. That's why ALL of them should be available. So everyone can be happy. The reason debates started in this thread is because a few SZ fanboys will riot over the name "Turf War".

And so what if their main weapon levels differently in each mode? It's THEIR choice whether they A. Get better with main weapon B. Get a secondary weapon C. Participate not in all of those modes or D. Use their weapon differently. It's something that can be solved so easily.

 

[EpicB13]

But not everyone can enjoy that one definitive mode. The community can actually be segregated on disagreeing with only one definitive mode. That's why ALL of them should be available. So everyone can be happy. The reason debates started in this thread is because a few SZ fanboys will riot over the name "Turf War".

And so what if their main weapon levels differently in each mode? It's THEIR choice whether they A. Get better with main weapon B. Get a secondary weapon C. Participate not in all of those modes or D. Use their weapon differently. It's something that can be solved so easily.

A:

But not everyone can enjoy that one definitive mode. The community can actually be segregated on disagreeing with only one definitive mode. That's why ALL of them should be available. So everyone can be happy. The reason debates started in this thread is because a few SZ fanboys will riot over the name "Turf War".

And so what if their main weapon levels differently in each mode? It's THEIR choice whether they A. Get better with main weapon B. Get a secondary weapon C. Participate not in all of those modes or D. Use their weapon differently. It's something that can be solved so easily.

A: You can get better with your main weapon, but if someone practices just as much with a weapon that's better in the mode you're practicing in, what can you do?

B: Like I said, you may have to use up to four different weapons, which could be quite the challenge.

C: What if you want to participate in every one?

 

[Nihabz]

As far as I concerned it is not laziness, it is avoiding unnecessary work. Every one of these game modes are complex enough to have a meta worthy of competitive play. That doesnt mean they all should. You talk about working harder when you have done nothing in the last week to support the team. The captain is the one who truly takes the brunt for it. You are living in lala land right now and you think everything can happen if you wave a magic wand in the air and say "there's no place like home." You have not a clue how a competitive community works or how a captain works, so stop pretending you do.

This is what you get when a 15 year old prepubescent **** tries to make a "logical" counter argument.

 

[ndayadn]

The key difference is that the eventual winners could choose to run the time down so that they can all build special and have an unbeatable quad special combination that takes the mid point, thus securing penalty time (to the tune of three quarters of whatever score the opponents just got) that allows them to have a second attempt if the other team has a "fluke" of their own and retakes the point, but in Turf, you're forced to make a move at the 25-30 second mark in order to have enough time to push out and take over the map or choke the map out and make such a comeback impossible (depending on which side of the spawn camp you're on).

Furthermore, consider that defending on some maps is so much easier than pushing (see Arowana, Saltspray, Mackerel once you get set up) that being able to secure a point for an extended period of time is not necessarily indicative of superiority, only a "fluke" on the first engagement (maybe they have a 96 user, for example, whose gun decided to shoot straight for fifteen seconds). If the losing team is the superior team, they will get about four good pushes in before the game ends. That's four opportunities for them to outplay the other team; maybe they luck out and it takes one, or maybe it takes all four and it gets down to single-digit points for the other team, but they then get the same advantages that the inferior team had, and can almost certainly win the game.

In this sense, "flukes" have a chance to balance out. There are five whole minutes for one team to emerge victorious, and if neither of them do, then they're evidently matched closely enough that a deciding factor needs to break the tie. A single "fluke" at the end of a Turf match wins. No counterplay, no preparation, nothing to do except hope to hell the other team all decides to ink their feet while they have complete map control.

I mostly agree, but there are a few things about this that I wanna point out, perhaps not even against your argument. More of a clarification/important concept. it may sound dumb to point out, but the last 30 seconds of the game are inherently the most important because after that, it's over. There is not another chance to push or react, it is the finality of it that makes it so important. It's a familiar concept in many time based games. I know a lot of this community is familiar with Smash Bros., so I'll use the example of running a game to time. It is a strategy that insures the opponent doesn't have an opportunity to come back by virtue of the match almost being over.

Secondly, this strategy and concept existing in the game doesn't exactly mean it's not worth playing, at least imo. Last Ditch Effort, for example, basically gives you two very useful skills at a time they are optimal. Ink Rec and Ink Save sub/main aren't things I would run during the course of the match, because I've found that they rarely matter 1 minute into a game. It's the last 30 seconds where being able to rec and save ink can make an actual difference, as fractions of a second saved out of a 30 second span of time are more "cost" efficient. This is weapon dependent, of course, but it is an option that I believe makes a difference. I'd love to see it looked at more carefully.

There are also strategies not dependent on gear that I've seen used to pretty great effect. You can deliberately literally wait for the team to keep pushing (as they want to push/build special) and then pop out and ohko with roller/gal/whatever and botch efforts of that last push.

I think you have fair points, but it's kind of a simplification of the game mode as I've seen it played.

No, that's not what happens. The better team will usually have a good 70% of the map taken over, which is hard to reverse if you're playing against competent players. A lone Inkzooka or laggy Roller won't be enough to turn the tides of the battle unless you're playing one of those dumb teams that insists on staying out in the open because they're greedy for more points. Controlling territory is an important aspect of all three modes. But in Turf War, people care more about scoring points than protecting the base, so some of the more strategic elements are lost in translation. Turf War gives you an opportunity to make a comeback, but the other modes don't. Is it possible to regain control of the map within the last 30 seconds? Yes. Is it easy? No. Does it happen often? No. It's highly situational. Maybe not in your rooms, but your personal experiences don't determine the competitive viability of certain modes. All three modes are at least somewhat competitive, but Nintendo is currently promoting Turf War is "the" mode for competition, which is why Splatfest is Turf War only. I won't be surprised if they make friend rooms Turf War only, which would be highly disappointing, but also unsurprising given Nintendo's track record when it comes to online play. Set your expectations accordingly.

To be fair, I think we'd be talking higher level competitive play, not rooms with "pablo" and "billie." Point is, when it's for competition, grubbing for points won't be a valid reason to be standing around shooting everything. I would expect smarter play and attempts at flanking, to force the opponent to be the one to have to push. I think flc has a decent analysis of his experience with other competitive players...a comeback or situation where the last 30 seconds is most important is almost certainly better exemplified when your/the opponents team isn't running out there on a kamikaze mission.

 

[AnchorTea]

A:


A: You can get better with your main weapon, but if someone practices just as much with a weapon that's better in the mode you're practicing in, what can you do?

B: Like I said, you may have to use up to four different weapons, which could be quite the challenge.

C: What if you want to participate in every one?

I think you accidently pressed the reply button twice.

Anyway. For A., you just try to find new tactics, or use it differently. I was even able to find a way on how to make the Dynamo Roller avoid good in close combat and flank my opponent and splatter them. And a competition between two players to be better actually counts as competitive and thus having all modes more competitive referring to your reply.

For B. it's a bad excuse honestly. A lot of top competitive gamers a various pvp games spent HOURS just to master something, and were are they? They are in the top 10 of any kind of ranks. Their work has paid off, now they are respected and looked up to by other comp gamers. Which makes this MORE competitive. Which is good in general.

For C. Use the solutions for B. and C.. I'll admit that what I said for C. was kinda dumb, but it's the players choice in the end.

 

[Summerlycoris]

I think it can be thought of like this. If Splat Zones or Tower Control were treated similarly to Turf War, they'd be very different games to play. If the only timer that mattered was the one counting down to the end of the match, people would behave more like they do in turf wars- trying to make one last attempt to get victory. Which means all games would be a simplified overtime. It wouldn't feel right anymore.
I think turf wars could be made more competitive, but there'd need to be a change in how it was scored to make it more similar to the ranked modes. Something like everyone starting with a countdown from 100. If a team gets over a certain percentage of the map covered, they start counting down. (it'd probably have to be over 50 percent, unless they want to specify areas eg in Arowana mall you must have the base, must have the ramps must have the side paths must have the mid etc.) If the opponent gets over the percentage, they start counting down and you get a penalty added. (If you'd previously had the majority of turf.)
And yes, I know that'd make it a bigger Splat Zone. That's just what I can think of that would make the whole match matter.

 

[Citrus]

You don't get it. If there is a group of players who prefers, let's say Rainkmaker, and Tower Control is the only mode that the community would consider competitively viable, and thus Rainmaker wouldn't have a chance. And those who are good at Rainmaker and can't win tourneys because of some opinions, then that group of people wouldn't give damn about Comp Splatoon.


What do you mean grasping at straws? All these Game Modes are quite simple, TW being the most simplest. What logic are you coming from that if all Game Modes were available that it would disorient the meaning of Splatoon? Are you saying this because groups will have to work harder? Because if that's a reason why, then that's ****ing bullshit.

If you want to be the best, then you gotta work for it. Being lazy about it would not get you to victory.

That's like saying in smash tourny a player wanted to play stamina matches but can't, making everything in the community unfair.

 

[AnchorTea]

That's like saying in smash tourny a player wanted to play stamina matches but can't, making everything in the community unfair.

Not really, since Stamina Smash wasn't even built for Smash Bros overall mechanics. Unlike the four modes were all of them ARE built for Splatoon's mechanics.

 

[Citrus]

Jus because something can be comp doesn't mean it has to. Time battles can be comp in smash, but its not because most people agree it is not necessary. It's the same thing here. Some people may want comp Turf Wars, but that doesn't mean we have to please them just because they want.

Not really, since Stamina Smash wasn't even built for the game. Unlike the four modes were all of them ARE built for the game's mechanics.

You're taking this **** too literally

 

[AnchorTea]

Jus because something can be comp doesn't mean it has to. Time battles can be comp in smash, but its not because most people agree it is not necessary. It's the same thing here. Some people may want comp Turf Wars, but that doesn't mean we have to please them just because they want.

Smash Bros is a different game, and a different platform. We should seriously stop comparing a fighting game to a shooting game, seriously.

You're taking this **** too literally

What you said wasn't a metaphor so I don't get what was wrong with my reply, also you need to stop double posting.

 

[Citrus]

Smash Bros is a different game, and a different platform. We should seriously stop comparing a fighting game to a shooting game, seriously.


What you said wasn't a metaphor so I don't get what was wrong with my reply, also you need to stop double posting.

You don't seem to understand lol. Just because something can be competitive doesn't mean we have to make it all like that, and we don't have to please every single person in this community just because they want something to be some way.

 

[AnchorTea]

we don't have to please every single person in this community just because they want something to be some way.

Do you really think that making one or two modes legal will do something bad?

 

[Citrus]

Do you really think that making one or two modes legal will do something bad?

No, but having everything in the game being comp isn't that necessary, especially when TW is not built to be comp like the other modes

 

[Feryn Hyrk]

If tournaments have ssb64, melee, PM and ssb4 why can't splatoon have 4 separated games witin a torney too?


Eventually the less popular modes will disappear, like PM and ssb64, but they had their time at least

 

[AnchorTea]

No, but having everything in the game being comp isn't that necessary, especially when TW is not built to be comp like the other modes

That necessary? So I guess making a proper community and a pvp games meta isn't that necessary?

And it seems like you are just saying this just because of TW, and not anything else.

 

[Citrus]

That necessary? So I guess making a proper community and a pvp games meta isn't that necessary?

And it seems like you are just saying this just because of TW, and not anything else.

No, it isn't necessary to make EVERYTHING in the game featured competitively.

 

[AnchorTea]

No, it isn't necessary to make EVERYTHING in the game featured competitively.

I never mentioned the Single Player mode, or the amiibos, or the minigames btw. I'm only referring to the four online modes. And you didn't prove why that isn't a bad thing. Making all the four modes to be used for competitive Splatoon. Nothing bad will come out of it, and it will expand the overall meta than just focusing on one or two modes.