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Why Competitive Splatoon should use all Game Modes instead of one

[EJ]_Locke

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ok. Havent read that in a while...
They bolded the part they were referring to man, you said Turf War is geared towards casual and they pointed out that Splatoon as a whole is geared towards casual yet has a competitive community developing, making the implication that Turf War can also be competitive.
 

Kat

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The modes played in non-official competitive leagues and matches always have and always will be decided by the community that plays it. CS:S had small 1v1 aim ladders but it also had massive LAN tournies using the default competitive modes. Turf War is designed to not be as competitively orientated due to the target audience of the game but who actually cares. If enough people want to play it in comp then it'll be played in comp. That's all there is to it. There isn't a central authority on competitive Splatoon and probably never will be, this isn't LCS or something, if you want to play TW competitively and there are enough people then literally nobody is stopping you.

I swear Smash and Mario Kart even existing has done so much damage to the comp scene of this game before it's even begun.
 

TheRapture

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The modes played in non-official competitive leagues and matches always have and always will be decided by the community that plays it. CS:S had small 1v1 aim ladders but it also had massive LAN tournies using the default competitive modes. Turf War is designed to not be as competitively orientated due to the target audience of the game but who actually cares. If enough people want to play it in comp then it'll be played in comp. That's all there is to it. There isn't a central authority on competitive Splatoon and probably never will be, this isn't LCS or something, if you want to play TW competitively and there are enough people then literally nobody is stopping you.

I swear Smash and Mario Kart even existing has done so much damage to the comp scene of this game before it's even begun.
This.

I think you all don't need to worry about what goes on with other games. There are no established precedents. The competitive scene will be free-form.

I doubt any TO will restrict the game if they don't have to. If it's easy enough to pick any of the three current game types when custom games launch, there's no reason why all three wouldn't be used.
 

KnightMB

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Competitive Splatoon has been set off, it has been getting somewhat of a strong start with discovered data on weapons, clothing, etc. Almost everything is set up well. All there is left to do is to wait till August to get private rooms and to decide what should be the primary game mode for tourneys.

The current suggested one is Splat Zones, as it is considered more competitive and the game says it's more competitive than Turf War. I will prove later in the OP that what the game says is wrong. Turf War is considered casual and is "non-competitive". I will prove why this is wrong. Tower Control is considered boring. This is an opinion, a lot say it's fun and even more exciting than the other modes. I will prove why both of those opinions are fine.

Now here are my reasons why Competitive Splatoon should use all Game Modes:........
I've read over all the pages of responses here, so I am not going to argue with the opinions of others. I do agree with your initial post though. Here are my thoughts after playing a lot of turf wars, splat zones, tower control, etc.

Turf wars, can it be competitive? Of course it can. But only if it is setup that way. The current Turf wars settings are very casual compared to any of the ranked modes. You can goof around in Turf wars and your team can still win. You can goof around in Turf wars, team lose, and still get points. You can be awesome in Turf wars, your team lose and you still get more points than the top person of the winning team (done that myself a lot of times).

So I think the current Turf wars settings is good for new players and those that don't have a lot of free time to invest into playing. That would target busy adults or busy school kids, etc. Very young kids that don't want to worry about too much team oriented strategy, just want to have fun.

Now, you want a competitive Turf wars? I saw this during splatfest. Teams were a lot more aggressive when I played. I could always tell apart the team with strategy from the team with the goofiest playing. :) Still, even during splat fest, there was not as much pressure to win because even the losers got half the points of the winning team for just trying.

If Turf wars was put into a ranked mode where the losers got nothing, then it would become a competitive mode. There is strategy to be had in Turf wars, it is simply push the other team back to the spawn point. If the other team can't leave the base, then no amount of last second painting will be enough. I know there are plenty of video examples of the last few seconds of turf wars turning over an entire map for the win, but that is basically the same strategy of pushing the other team back. Give Turf Wars a ranked mode and players will find strategies that work.

With my opinion out of the way on Turf wars, I agree that all modes should be opened for ranked mode. There is a different strategy to be had for each mode of Splatoon and locking into one every week, I am still on the fence about it. For one it gives you a week to practice the mode and what it takes to win. On the other, if you don't like splat zones and prefer tower control, you end up just not playing or given a partial effort when playing online (because it is not your favorite mode).

I think the Splatoon player base is big enough to have a "Splat Zone", "Tower Control" "Turf War" separate ranked modes for the players. Why not be an A+ in Splat Zones but only a C+ in Tower Control?
 

ndayadn

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The modes played in non-official competitive leagues and matches always have and always will be decided by the community that plays it. CS:S had small 1v1 aim ladders but it also had massive LAN tournies using the default competitive modes. Turf War is designed to not be as competitively orientated due to the target audience of the game but who actually cares. If enough people want to play it in comp then it'll be played in comp. That's all there is to it. There isn't a central authority on competitive Splatoon and probably never will be, this isn't LCS or something, if you want to play TW competitively and there are enough people then literally nobody is stopping you.

I swear Smash and Mario Kart even existing has done so much damage to the comp scene of this game before it's even begun.
even though you're correct, it doesn't mean people can't or shouldn't discuss about what ways are ~competitive~ to play, like the Turf War discussion so far. People can play what they want, but to the contrary people can decide to not play what they don't want. If someone thinks a mode is stagnant and uninteresting, it's a valid complaint to have and it should be entertained and discussed, yeah?
 

Kat

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even though you're correct, it doesn't mean people can't or shouldn't discuss about what ways are ~competitive~ to play, like the Turf War discussion so far. People can play what they want, but to the contrary people can decide to not play what they don't want. If someone thinks a mode is stagnant and uninteresting, it's a valid complaint to have and it should be entertained and discussed, yeah?
Sure, whatever you want. I'm not stopping anyone talking about that at all, I'm simply clarifying another completely separate point. Please by all means continue any other discussions.
 
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Draayder

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even though you're correct, it doesn't mean people can't or shouldn't discuss about what ways are ~competitive~ to play, like the Turf War discussion so far. People can play what they want, but to the contrary people can decide to not play what they don't want. If someone thinks a mode is stagnant and uninteresting, it's a valid complaint to have and it should be entertained and discussed, yeah?
To be fair any discussion of it now is largely speculation since we haven't had a turf war tourney or anything like that an we can't until august. It's all just guesses based on the turf wars we have played, which may or may not reflect on actual tourney play.
 

Ryuji

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oh and P.S. I've seen people talk about "random inkzookas/inkstrikes etc" these people aim their special attacks at you, there is literally nothing "random" about that. (except when lag starts messing up the game) But this can be said of any game mode Splatoon has to offer.
Have you never played Battleship? Using an Inkstrike is pretty much like that, look on the map and choose a spot to strike, not knowing if someone is there. That's where the randomness comes in. Sure you can sort of see on map where the enemy is by any ink being spread, but who does that? You're extremely vulnerable when using Inkstrike so you have to make a decision fast. Even if it's safe to use it, there's no guarantee you'll hit someone because they'll just dodge it the moment they see it, so it's a lucky shot if you do actually managed to hit someone.
Of course this is all not including the times in Splat Zones where you want to use it on the zone or to take out a sniper safely on a perch.

As for Inkzookas, since the blasts are quick and can go through solid walls, there's a chance you'll unwittingly hit someone because the range is just a tad under a fully charged E-liter shot. It's happened to me a lot of times. Someone will use the Inkzooka and hit me when I'm pretty sure they never even saw me. Randomness due to these specials certainly can occur.

Sorry for going off on a tangent but I just felt like clarifying this.
 

River09

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To be fair any discussion of it now is largely speculation since we haven't had a turf war tourney or anything like that an we can't until august. It's all just guesses based on the turf wars we have played, which may or may not reflect on actual tourney play.
Exactly. Even if we don't consider Turf Wars as the, and I use this term loosely, 'better' mode for competitive play we should at least try to get a taste of competitive Turf War. Who knows, it may have more viability than we give it credit.
 

Snowboar

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Have you never played Battleship? Using an Inkstrike is pretty much like that, look on the map and choose a spot to strike, not knowing if someone is there. That's where the randomness comes in. Sure you can sort of see on map where the enemy is by any ink being spread, but who does that? You're extremely vulnerable when using Inkstrike so you have to make a decision fast. Even if it's safe to use it, there's no guarantee you'll hit someone because they'll just dodge it the moment they see it, so it's a lucky shot if you do actually managed to hit someone.
Of course this is all not including the times in Splat Zones where you want to use it on the zone or to take out a sniper safely on a perch.

As for Inkzookas, since the blasts are quick and can go through solid walls, there's a chance you'll unwittingly hit someone because the range is just a tad under a fully charged E-liter shot. It's happened to me a lot of times. Someone will use the Inkzooka and hit me when I'm pretty sure they never even saw me. Randomness due to these specials certainly can occur.

Sorry for going off on a tangent but I just felt like clarifying this.
You're confusing poor map awareness with luck, the inkstrike makes a very loud sound, it gives you an indication of where it's going to land and it's not random, because someone decided to pick that spot to launch the inkstrike to. If you decide to ignore all the help the game gives you and get killed by the inkstrike then you pretty much deserve it. (the only thing "random" about the inkstrike is the location)
Ofc you can also be just in a bad spot if you get stuck in enemy ink and an inkstrike drops on your head.

@inkzooka I'm not sure what kind of argument you're trying to give, but there is literally nothing "random" about inkzookas, they shoot in a straight line for a fixed range. No fluctuating damage, no fluctuating range. Only lag can mess things up. (as for your can shoot "through" walls, watch the splatoon direct again, they said that was intentional)
 

Box

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People are going to play what they want to play. And as of right now, I'm guessing that the best players are going to prefer playing splat zones. Even if other modes are competitive, there's no obligation for players to support them.
 

Ryuji

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@Snowboar My point about the Inkzooka is that because it can go through walls, you don't know who or if someone is behind it. The blasts themselves are intentional because that's what the user wants, but when they hit someone without knowing it, they're just collateral, making it random.
 

TheRapture

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@Snowboar My point about the Inkzooka is that because it can go through walls, you don't know who or if someone is behind it. The blasts themselves are intentional because that's what the user wants, but when they hit someone without knowing it, they're just collateral, making it random.
Lack of knowledge is not random. Just because you don't know you're hitting someone doesn't mean you're randomly hitting them.
 

Mazzle

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If you lose, it's not the games mode fault it's your fault.
You as a whole team weren't good enough to take and maintain mapcontrol.
If you're getting greedy, you'll die.
If you're too slow to aim, you'll die.
If you're stupid enough to lure in 1qm and all die to one inkzooka, you'll die.

You just have to be the better player/team to win. Nothing else.
And I like turf war for what it is, because it gives me the opportunity to sneak by and start a comback in the
enemies back. I couldn't do that this way during splat zones if everyone is lurking at one place.

EDIT:
Btw, why can't competetive play mean, that we determine the best team out of 2-3 modes with 3 games each? The overall best just wins. Or is that too much?
 
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D

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ITT Mario Kart players complaining about "luck" in Splatoon....
I know right? Competitive Mario Kart is pretty laughable bar Time Trials, but that's not a discussion for here or now.

Shouldn't we wait until there has been turf war clan matches before we start dismissing the mode as a competitive mode?
No, that makes too much sense. We should just make ignorant statements with anecdotal evidence and draw hasty conclusions before all of the game's online features are given to us so we can thoroughly test out the competitive viability of Turf Wars.

"Yeah but we of Imperious have tested it, and we didn't like it," Therefore we must take out the mode and force others to play splat zones/tower control because we are better at those modes to retain our status as a "top tier" team. I would appreciate if you could leave your bias and personal agenda to yourselves and discuss the actual competitiveness of the mode.
flc likes to believe that he has authority and everything he says is right.

Personally, I think instead of trying to get this mode banned, trying to get something constructive going would be better. I mean come on, many of us came from the Mario Kart community, which didn't have a properly functioning "team mode" either. But what we did do was create a meta game out of it, even though the mode was still FFA.
Precisely. If you can make a casual free-for-all game like Mart Kart into a coordinated competitive team game, you can easily do they same for Splatoon, if not way better.

oh and P.S. I've seen people talk about "random inkzookas/inkstrikes etc" these people aim their special attacks at you, there is literally nothing "random" about that. (except when lag starts messing up the game) But this can be said of any game mode Splatoon has to offer.
The fact that people are actually calling Inkzooka shots, Inkstrikes and comebacks in general flukes or luck showcases their ineptitude at the game.

The modes played in non-official competitive leagues and matches always have and always will be decided by the community that plays it. CS:S had small 1v1 aim ladders but it also had massive LAN tournies using the default competitive modes. Turf War is designed to not be as competitively orientated due to the target audience of the game but who actually cares. If enough people want to play it in comp then it'll be played in comp. That's all there is to it. There isn't a central authority on competitive Splatoon and probably never will be, this isn't LCS or something, if you want to play TW competitively and there are enough people then literally nobody is stopping you.
Exactly. The community always decides how games are played competitively, not one person. No one has any authority over what direction Splatoon's competition will gravitate towards.

I swear Smash and Mario Kart even existing has done so much damage to the comp scene of this game before it's even begun.
Smash in particular is at fault for this. Before the game was even released, people were talking about banning stages and weapons like the Roller. And people were posting simple gameplay mechanics and trying to pass them off as advanced techs.

This.

I think you all don't need to worry about what goes on with other games. There are no established precedents. The competitive scene will be free-form.

I doubt any TO will restrict the game if they don't have to. If it's easy enough to pick any of the three current game types when custom games launch, there's no reason why all three wouldn't be used.
Great.

@AnchorTeado you at least agree/concede that Ranked mode is more skill based than TW? I also pose this question to others who think TW can be (potentionally) competitive.
Yes, I acknowledge that Splat Zones are far more competitive than Turf Wars, but that doesn't mean Turf Wars can't be competitive.
 

EpicB13

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I think you accidently pressed the reply button twice.

Anyway. For A., you just try to find new tactics, or use it differently. I was even able to find a way on how to make the Dynamo Roller avoid good in close combat and flank my opponent and splatter them. And a competition between two players to be better actually counts as competitive and thus having all modes more competitive referring to your reply.

For B. it's a bad excuse honestly. A lot of top competitive gamers a various pvp games spent HOURS just to master something, and were are they? They are in the top 10 of any kind of ranks. Their work has paid off, now they are respected and looked up to by other comp gamers. Which makes this MORE competitive. Which is good in general.

For C. Use the solutions for B. and C.. I'll admit that what I said for C. was kinda dumb, but it's the players choice in the end.
Thanks for the reply. I like hearing other people's opinions. Lol, I did tap reply twice. XD
 

missingno

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I think trying to mix multiple modes in a single bracket or event is a bad idea, it makes as much sense as having the first round be chess and the second round be go. There could be separate events for each mode, but I'm not sure our scene will be big enough to sustain all four, let alone whether there'll even be that much interest in all four.
 

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