Final Smash Presentation Discussion

[Cadet Strongarm]

the wii was a smashing success unfortunately the target audience for the wii has since moved onto mobile games like candy crush and angry birds....

it might be a bit unfair to compare the wii u to the XB1 And PS4 but since It'll be competing for every gamers attention like every console during the holiday season someone's gonna compare them and probably already has

i don't know if You've ever heard of this but when the future comes you either adapt or you get left behind with all the other relics and dinosaur bones

 

[Of Moose & Men]

i don't know if You've ever heard of this but when the future comes you either adapt or you get left behind with all the other relics and dinosaur bones

It's almost like they're working on a new system so that they don't do that. . .

 

[Leronne]

soooooooooooooooooooo...........
Here's a funny Cloud video

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

There's also the fact that Nintendo has had a history of failing to get 3rd-party support. It's something Nintendo has never been very good at (or not very interested in, depending on your perspective). The last time Nintendo got huge 3rd-party support from major gaming companies was the NES, and that was because Nintendo pushed exclusivity deals on all of them. 3rd-party support was plentiful for the SNES/Super Famicom until the Mortal Kombat censorship debacle, which caused developers to favor SEGA. Sony then took 3rd-party support away from Nintendo with the PlayStation due to its disc format and marketing as the video game system for cool people and had never given it back except with the occasional company with the Wii, and even then, those companies found the Wii off-putting and weird (particularly because the Wii's expanded Blue Ocean audience was not interested in early Wii offerings, and then because of the Wii's lower graphical and memory output compared to the Xbox 360 and PS3). In other words, Nintendo has always had to rely on its first-party releases to sustain itself. Companies like EA and Activision do not take Nintendo seriously as a company.

This is only for home consoles though. On the handheld market, the situation is totally different. Nintendo has always had astonishing success with its handheld systems, and it gets a lot of support from all sorts of 3rd-party developers. No matter how you cut it, an anime series has just gotten started based on a franchise that has, so far, been strictly on the 3DS (Yo-kai Watch) and has become a wild success thanks to it.

Something else to mention: In Japan, the Wii U is doing just fine. Last week, Splatoon was the 3rd best-selling game in Japan with Super Mario Maker in 4th. (1st and 2nd were both 3DS titles--Monster Hunter X and Yo-kai Watch Busters, respectively. Note that both of those are also 3rd-party releases.)

 

[Ice-Fisher]

I kind of agreecwith the earlier poster, sorry I'm new here and don't know how to quote others just yet,

However even though corrin is a FE character, I feel like his whole dragon dynamic seperates him well enough from the other sword wielding characters since he basically has a new fighting style

Bayonetta though I have mixed feelings about, she is a rated M character and does seem out of place, but that I can deal with , even her attacks and specials seem cool (although witch time will be extremely abused) .

My main problem is that something seems really off about her inclusion to the game, what we saw in the direct was waaaaay to far along in development, this wasn't a simple announcement of who won it was a showcase for a character already well into development, they had already done gone through the conceptual stages of the character her moves were designed extra effects were added, the voice work was there, her and the characters from her games even had fully modeled trophies, not to mention the cast of kid Icarus did the voice work for her trailer. When you add this to the fact that she was among the top "recognizable" characters chosen, it makes you wonder if they planned this way before the ballet ended.I myself have a background in 3d modeling granted I'm no where near sakurais level but if bayonetta was truly the winner of the ballot we would've gotten something in the vein of mewtwos reveal, a simple turnaround, not a fully rigged completed model

Again I'm not completely opposed to her addition to the cast but I'm also not sure she got in fair and square .still looking forward to her though and can't help but wonder what it would've been like if inklings got in :p

 

[Meechy2000]

Lol, love how you're trying to make us seem like the ignorant cry babies.

Well You was kinda acting like on because you got mad over my opinion telling me to deal with it when you misread or misinterperated my opinion.

 

[BlackZero]

i don't know if You've ever heard of this but when the future comes you either adapt or you get left behind with all the other relics and dinosaur bones

A little respect for one of the OG's of gaming who has survived a very competitive industry if you please. Nintendo has been a major innovator in the industry. You want to talk about adapting to the future? Lets talk about it. Have you had to remember and input a hexidecimal password to continue your game after dying or quitting lately? No? You can thank Nintendo for developing battery-powered internal game storage to thank for that. Nintendo introduced game saving with the Zelda series.

Let's talk about how they practically invented mobile gaming and replaced arcade stick controllers with less awkward D-pad controllers. Perhaps you'd like to discuss how their Super FX chip (made famous with the original Star Fox) marked the earliest 3D gaming on home consoles that actually ran smoothly. Let's talk about how Super Mario 64 pretty much set the standard for 3D adventure/platforming, how they invented screenshots with the Gameboy Printer, and were the first to implement a rumble feature on controllers. We could talk about how, after pointing and laughing at the Wii's motion controls, both Microsoft and Sony shamelessly copied them after the "Casual Console for kids" Wii handed both of their "hardcore 3leet MLG pro" consoles their respective *****.

Nintendo has done a lot for gaming. Their innovations have been the central guiding force behind features people take for granted today. I don't honestly care if you like them or not, but you should respect what they've contributed. They haven't burned bridges or turned their back on 3rd party devs. 3rd party devs don't want to program support for Nintendo's innovations into their games. They don't want to deal with Wii-mote, touch scree, and 3D compatibility.

Now then, if we're going to compare consoles, PC wins every time. Just about everything gets a PC release. PCs also run emulators, which gives them access to the full library of every gaming console/system that people have created digital copies of (From Commodore 64 to Wii and DS). PCs also have far more GPU and processing horsepower than any home console with the potential to upgrade specific components as needed, rather than having to buy a whole new console for graphics improvements and processing speed. Finally, PCs also offer user created content and bugfixes, so you aren't at the complete mercy of devs for any changes or fixes you want to see in the game.

If you want the latest and greatest 3rd party titles, a huge gaming library, mods that extend the play life of games, and the ability to run games at their peak levels of performance and graphics, ditch Nintendo, Playstation, and Xbox, and drop $1K-$2K on a gaming rig.

Edit: wrote this when I was really tired. Went back and made it coherent.

 

[Meechy2000]

A little respect for one of the OG's of gaming who has survived a very competitive industry if you please. Nintendo has also been a major innovator in the industry. You talk about adapting to the future, then lets talk about it. Have you had to remember and input a 9-16 character password to continue after dying lately? No? You have battery-powered save data to thank for that. More specifically, you have Nintendo to thank for introducing a game save feature in Zelda. Let's talk about how they practically invented mobile gaming and replaced arcade sticks with D-pads. Let's how their Super FX chip used in Star Fox marked the earliest 3D gaming on home consoles that actually ran smoothly. Let's talk about how Super Mario 64 pretty much set the standard for 3D adventure/platforming. Or perhaps how they invented screenshots with the Gameboy Printer, or were the first to implement a rumble feature on controllers. Perhaps you'd like to discuss how, after pointing and laughing at the Wii's motion controls, both Microsoft and Sony shamelessly copied them after the "Casual Console for kids" Wii handed both of their "hardcore 3leet MLG pro" consoles their respective *****.

Nintendo has done a lot for gaming. They truly have paved the way for a lot of other companies. I don't honestly care if you like them or not, but I think you should respect what they've done for gaming. The reason why they have trouble with 3rd party support isn't because they've burned bridges. It's actually because they are too innovative for their own good. Developers don't want to take the time to program things like Wii-Mote or Wii U Camepad support into their games.

Now then, if we're going to compare consoles...PC wins every time. It's very rare for games to not release on PC. Not only that, but it has access to the entire library of games made for other platforms for emulators and also opens the door to modding and user created bugfixes that devs like Bethsoft and Obsidian can't be bothered to take care of themselves. If getting all the latest 3rd party games and having the biggest gaming library is what you're after, ditch Xbox, Ninty, and Sony, and spend about $1K-$2K on a gaming rig.

Correct

 

[Cadet Strongarm]

I Like The Wii-U Gamepad but most gamers didn't and most developers hate gimicky controls it's why crap like playstation move and kinect flopped it's also why Playstation VR Will flop

people want the basics they don't want anything fancy

i look forward to good exclusives but apparently the majority of gamers just care about the Triple A Titles that you can play on xbox or playstation or pc they don't care about what pushes the system or what really makes it shine they just want another call of duty....

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Well You was kinda acting like on because you got mad over my opinion telling me to deal with it when you misread or misinterperated my opinion.

Lol, I didn't get mad, I was simply pointing out the flaws in your arguments. And I simply said deal with it because you were whining and complaining, but I digress.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

The Nintendo DS also popularized the touch screen. It didn't invent it, but it made touch screens appealing to game makers and approachable to players. Between the Game Boy inventing handheld gaming, the DS making touch screens popular, the Wii making motion controls standard on gaming devices, and the Virtual Console creating the idea that you can have an entire game library on download, mobile gaming pretty much owes everything to Nintendo.

The PlayStation line of systems may be Nintendo's biggest rival (though Iwata insisted it was Apple, but that's a different matter), but Nintendo was the one that had the idea for the disc drive, and the PlayStation was originally going to be a Super Nintendo add-on. There was a falling out between Sony and Nintendo though, but imagine what could've been had the project continued as planned and the PlayStation would connect to a Super Nintendo. Because the success of the PlayStation had Sony executives talking about moving into the OS market, and the Xbox was created to keep Sony busy on the video games front (which is why Microsoft people and Nintendo people tend to be on such good terms--they have a common enemy), the console wars may still be Nintendo vs. SEGA today.

 

[Meechy2000]

Lol, I didn't get mad, I was simply pointing out the flaws in your arguments. And I simply said deal with it because you were whining and complaining, but I digress.

I dont think you know the difference between whining/complaining and stating a claim.So you can be the hater here if you want but at the end of the day my claim stay how it is and im not the only one who thinks that inklings should be in smash.So instead of sitting here attacking me and telling me to stop "whining" go to the other thousands people thats "complaining" about it and pull out there "flaws".

 

[BlackZero]

people want the basics they don't want anything fancy

As Steve Jobs most perfectly surmised, "the customer doesn't know what they want until they see it." The reason why Nintendo has stayed afloat all these years is because they are willing to take risks, and more of those risks have paid off than not. They could have very easily played it safe with each console only offering graphics/processing improvements, but they experimented with new ideas that ended up becoming industry standards. There really wasn't any need to develop a "fancy" hand-held console with "basic" home consoles. Well, there wasn't until after they went ahead and made one.

You were the one saying people need to adapt to the future or stay in the past with the rest of the dinosaurs. Now you're saying there's no need to innovate; just keep doing what's worked all along. Thing is, there was a time when what's worked all along didn't exist; someone had to start it. People who adapt to the future ARE the dinosaurs; people who MAKE the future are the ones who survive the next generation. Imagination rules the world, and Nintendo has shown they have plenty of it.

I'm not sure if you're living proof of Steve Jobs' sentiment, are arguing for the fun of it, or think that pessimism is edgy and cool; you've bounced between wanting innovation & growth and preferring the status quo all the while proselytizing Nintendo's and Splatoon's imminent demise due to both. I don't know which it is, but I'll say this: they know what they're doing. They have a tendency to play the proverbial long game where most companies and consumers focus on the short term. There's a reason why every journalist and armchair expert criticizes Nintendo's horrible decisions year after year, yet the company is still chugging right along. It's called long-term thinking: they're willing to take a few short-term blows on the chin in order to secure long-term successes.

The Nintendo DS also popularized the touch screen. It didn't invent it, but it made touch screens appealing to game makers and approachable to players. Between the Game Boy inventing handheld gaming, the DS making touch screens popular, the Wii making motion controls standard on gaming devices, and the Virtual Console creating the idea that you can have an entire game library on download, mobile gaming pretty much owes everything to Nintendo.

Not only that, Nintendo technically pioneered gyroscopic/Sixaxis controls with the Gameboy Tilt sensor. They were also the first to introduce shoulder-buttons, afaik. They also brought PC shooters to the console world with Goldeneye 64. I hate to make a "kids these days" statement, but I don't think most of the newer generations of gamers understand how many things that are par for the course today were pioneered by Nintendo. It's pretty funny to hear hardcore gamers dump on Nintendo while their games and consoles use a lot of concepts Ninty created. The only things Sony and Xbox can really offer are better graphics and processing speeds. Basically, they're using SEGA's old "Blast Processing" sales pitch because they really don't have any of their own innovations to brag about.

the console wars may still be Nintendo vs. SEGA today.

It's a shame SEGA self-destructed with corporate mismanagement. The Dreamcast and Saturn were both very good systems. The only thing stopping them was the fact that no-one knew about them outside of Nihonland. If they had executed competent international marketing and distribution, there very well could still be a Nintendo-SEGA console war today.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

I dont think you know the difference between whining/complaining and stating a claim.So you can be the hater here if you want but at the end of the day my claim stay how it is and im not the only one who thinks that inklings should be in smash.So instead of sitting here attacking me and telling me to stop "whining" go to the other thousands people thats "complaining" about it and pull out there "flaws".

Lol, I know the difference, I'm not entirely sure you're aware of how much your "claims" seemed like whining. But Hey, I must have misinterpreted it. I agree, Inklings were pretty good candidates for Smash, but that doesn't automatically mean they should have been added, and there's no reason to be upset, disappointed, angry, etc. because they weren't picked. There were hundreds of characters they should have added. To believe they should have added the one character you wanted simply because you or "thousands" of people wanted it is a bit selfish. They aren't Meechy Inc., they know what they're doing. Olimar didn't get added in Melee, it was a new IP yet it wasn't added, who knows why, but it wasn't. It's likely because they wanted that IP to develop and insure it was here to stay before they added it in Smash. Sure enough it stuck, and Olimar and soon Alph were added to the Smash Roster. This is not the first time that they refrained from adding a brand new IP into smash. Would it have been nice to see the Inklings? Absolutely, but it didn't happen. There's no reason, at all, to be disappointed. Nintendo does not cater exclusively to you, me, or anyone else in this Forum. I didn't get Isaac, who was a HUGE "icon". Golden Sun even has music in the game, he was an Assist trophy and everything. The recognition was there, yet they did nothing with it. I'm not upset or disappointed. Mainly because I understand that I'm not the sun and Nintendo isn't Earth.

I'm not attacking you dude, don't flatter yourself. You're not the only person I've replied to in this thread. Don't for a second, think I sit here waiting for you to reply so that I can point out the holes in your arguments. If these other "thousands" of people were here, I'd be doing the same thing to them. However, you're the only one quoting me, and arm barring me into responding.

So, again, don't flatter yourself.

 

[Cadet Strongarm]

adapting doesn't mean you have to make a complete gimmick related console with wacky controls it just means you just stay ahead of the competition and know what's best

Motion Controls were never going to win over gamers in the long run....everyone knows that

when everyone plays a video game i think they prefer the controller to be as basic as possible that doesn't mean it can't have any new features but they don't want it to come off as some obnoxious piece of hardware that's trying too hard to be cool and hip

why do you think the sony dualshock controller has so many fans? it's basic but still has made some upgrades over the years without completely scrapping it's entire design for something unknown and new

we've come to the point where innovation in a console is harder to come by....why risk it all on a new untested style when you can make slight improvements upon what's already been working for you?

PS2---->PS3
Xbox----->360
Gamecube----->Wii

those were big leaps and changes

but this

PS3----->PS4
360---->Xbone
Wii---->Wii-u

it's just a slightly upgraded version of the past generation there's nothing as big or as interesting to comment on like last time

 

[Leronne]

Hey getting back on topic here. Did anyone else feel like corrin's standard attacks were a bit slow? Her specials and smash attacks were cool and very unique, but some of her standard attacks just feels like they're somewhat slow.

 

[BlackZero]

adapting doesn't mean you have to make a complete gimmick related console with wacky controls it just means you just stay ahead of the competition and know what's best

There is nothing "wacky" about the Wii's control scheme. If you played "Time Crisis" or "Carnevil," or any other pizza parlor shooter, you'd likely have found the motion aiming a bit nostalgic and very well done. I know I loved the aiming scheme with Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles 1 & 2 for that reason. It was used masterfully in the Metroid Prime Trilogy. Gimmicky? Perhaps, but done so in a way that enriched the gaming experience yet allowed for people who wanted to stick with more standardized controls. That gimmicky console was also rather successful, iirc.

Adapting is reactive rather than proactive, thus it's somewhat contradictory to say someone can stay ahead of the competition by reacting to what the competition is doing. Typically, staying ahead means you are the one exerting pressure on other companies to stay competitive. Taking risks is an essential part of seizing the initiative, as conservative efforts do not typically place companies in the driver's seat. With several cookie-cutter online team shooters, what is drawing consumers to CoD over BF or Halo? I think they simply pick a brand and stick with it. What draws people to Splatoon over CoD? It's a fresh idea, its a radical departure from the norm, it's not ashamed to be different, and it's incorporated gyroscopic aiming to give greater precision than analog sticks. Your proposed baby-steps approach would have strangled this idea before it got off the ground, as the FPS standard is to play as military guys hunting terrorists with a few added bells and whistles, utilizing a dual analog control stick set up.

The problem with "knowing what's best" is that this statement means absolutely nothing. There are people who love Call of Duty and Halo, and can't wait for the next one. There are people like me who can't stand either and haven't spent a dime on them in years. Which of these two opposite positions is best?

when everyone plays a video game i think they prefer the controller to be as basic as possible that doesn't mean it can't have any new features but they don't want it to come off as some obnoxious piece of hardware that's trying too hard to be cool and hip

I think this is a case of someone thinking their personal preferences represent the overwhelming majority. Controller design preferences vary as greatly as gamers themselves. Most PC gamers I know enjoy having a full keyboard for hotkeys to rather than having to navigate menus. People who are serious fighting gamers prefer fight sticks to a conventional controller. I actually know people who have played PC for a long time that struggle with controllers because they are too simplistic and streamlined. BikDiponABus did a play through of Kaizo Mario 64 using a keyboard and actually said he's better with that than a normal controller on any console games he emulates.

why do you think the sony dualshock controller has so many fans? it's basic but still has made some upgrades over the years without completely scrapping it's entire design for something unknown and new

I don't know many people who like the controller itself: they use it because they like Playstation and don't have a choice.

we've come to the point where innovation in a console is harder to come by....why risk it all on a new untested style when you can make slight improvements upon what's already been working for you?

Your statement suggests that, because you do not see creative opportunities, they do not exist. I am suggesting that innovators see opportunity where no one else does. That is what makes them innovators. Why take calculated risks? One could just as easily ask why make a racing game where a person plays as Mario characters who use weapons to sabotage other races instead of making a racing game with really fast cars. Why make a fighting game like Smash Bros instead of a more "standard" fighter like Street Fighter or Tekken? Because if you don't, someone else will and they'll reap the rewards for giving it a shot. That's why. Because people who don't step out of their comfort zone and go against the grain usually fall behind and blend in with the background. They become irrelevant. I believe these individuals are referred to as "dinosaurs."

 

[Cadet Strongarm]

and yet the wii-u wasn't the smashing hit that the wii was....go figure

i enjoy the wii-u whenever i get on it but to pretend that it isn't the laughing stock of the video game industry is a total farce

most kids aren't asking for a wii-u they either want an xbox one or a ps4 because that's what all their friends have and they wanna be the cool kid too

we're in the age of 8-10 year olds running around with iphones and tablets

when nintendo's target audience is associated more with call of duty than games suited to their age group what does that tell you?

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Why risk it all on untested style?

You mean like Splatoon?
How about Smash Bros?
Mario Kart?

All three games that took one style of game, morphed it into their own and did so good, other companies began using it as a foundation. None of which ever could compare to those three monstrous successes. Mario Kart created the "party" racer, creating spawns like Crash Team Racing (good times), among several others. Smash Bros completely changed the formula for fighting games. Playstation All Stars tried it, Rivals of Aether tried it, it's blown up! 4 player fighting games took things into its own hands, and Nintendo started it. Splatoon, although fresh and new, has already gotten some little rip offs here and there, so much so that Disney Infinity pretty much took Splatoon, copy and pasted it, then changed a few things to make it much more inferior.

Let us not forget that all three of Nintendo's biggest games on Wii U, are due to "Untested styles". Nintendo makes a killing off of their wacky and outside of the box thinking, it's the entire reason for this forum we're on right now.

EDIT: Again, PS4 and XB1 are targeting a much different demographic. The new trend is edgy hardcore gaming, and at its core, that is not Nintendo.

 

[lostleader]

I always did want to try out the Bayonetta series. I guess I have an excuse now. I want to get to know the character before replacing the stupid mutt I currently main.
.

Please, Please do.

But her games didn't sell well. She's only popular because she's wearing a skin-tight outfit. Seriously, she disturbs me.

Her games are some of the most amazing ones I have ever played and she is generally like able for her attitude. Plus she can use chainsaws and swords with her legs!!! Dood, I seriously want to replay Bayonetta and 2 right now, but I got some many things to do.

Aside From Pokken And Starfox Zero what does the wii-u have to offer in 2016?

Genei Ibun Roku ♯FE




AS FOR THE POLL RESULTS
It's more so the fact he never stated there be only one winner and that the only other character announced for the direct was product placement at best. Everyone was thinking there would at least be 3 different winners representing each big region (i.e. europe, japan, america). I get he had to read through all the Shrek votes, but seriously not even showing the actual poll results is a **** punch move, because they can basically just rig the polls however they want.

I am happy with Bayonetta (and will be the only reason I get back into smash after the mishap that is cloud)