Making a hypothetical balance patch and screwing with some kits

[Terret]

Being able to use dart more often did feel really nice though, but it shouldn't take three mains of sub saver just to have good ink consumption.

That does actually give me an idea. How about instead of making it cheaper itself, improving the scaling of ink saver sub on dart so you don’t need as much? The ink saver sub effect level is really low so I could increase it

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I like that idea but I still think it needs a straight ink consumption buff. Maybe 35% with better sub saver scaling?

 

[Terret]

I like that idea but I still think it needs a straight ink consumption buff. Maybe 35% with better sub saver scaling?

Depends on how much the change in scaling impacts it

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Depends on how much the change in scaling impacts it

time for Desmos lol

The ink saver sub effect level is really low so I could increase it

Is there just... one value that you can increase to change the scaling? What does it do? What's the equation that takes the AP of ISM and spits out ink consumption?

 

[Terret]

time for Desmos lol


Is there just... one value that you can increase to change the scaling? What does it do? What's the equation that takes the AP of ISM and spits out ink consumption?

For ISS, it looked like it but I’m going to double check because comparing parameters with Sendou.ink is actually very weird. It shows mine and sprinkler (at level 3) have the same scaling with wall being a little worse (not showing but I’m assuming level 2) while fizzy and mist being even worse (at level 1), splat and suction both have the same scaling. Weirdly though, Burst has a sub save level of 4 and sensor of a sub save level of 1 and sensor scales considerably better from what I see. It’s sort of strange in that regard so I got some testing to do

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

What happens to the scaling when you change the ink consumption, but not this "level" parameter? Does the ink consumption decrease by a fixed amount or a fixed ratio?

For example, if angle shooter's base ink consumption is reduced to 35%, does it go from the black line to the blue line or the red line?
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/wfvjkbpse7

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

For ISS, it looked like it but I’m going to double check because comparing parameters with Sendou.ink is actually very weird. It shows mine and sprinkler (at level 3) have the same scaling with wall being a little worse (not showing but I’m assuming level 2) while fizzy and mist being even worse (at level 1), splat and suction both have the same scaling. Weirdly though, Burst has a sub save level of 4 and sensor of a sub save level of 1 and sensor scales considerably better from what I see. It’s sort of strange in that regard so I got some testing to do

It's possible that instead of the numbers being some sort of value in the calculations, they are just labels for different scaling curves, where how "good" the curve is isn't necessarily tied to the value of its number label.

 

[Terret]

It's possible that instead of the numbers being some sort of value in the calculations, they are just labels for different scaling curves, where how "good" the curve is isn't necessarily tied to the value of its number label.

Just tested dart at level three. Starting at 40%, a main and two subs or LDE is required for Triple dart. Is that fine in your opinion or is that too much or too little?

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Just tested dart at level three. Starting at 40%, a main and two subs or LDE is required for Triple dart. Is that fine in your opinion or is that too much or too little?

I don't have a problem with needing gear for triple dart, but the thing with this change is that it wouldn't change anything for if there is no sub saver. Dart would still be hard to justify using without running it. I like buffing the ability but it shouldn't feel required in order for the sub to be worth it. Hence why I proposed 35%.

 

[Terret]

I don't have a problem with needing gear for triple dart, but the thing with this change is that it wouldn't change anything for if there is no sub saver. Dart would still be hard to justify using without running it. I like buffing the ability but it shouldn't feel required in order for the sub to be worth it. Hence why I proposed 35%.

If it’s able to potentially do 65 with two darts from Liter range alone and maybe even do 90, I really don’t think it NEEDS the sub saver to be worth it. And even if it was, gear dependency is usually a necessary cost to insane abilities. Otherwise, there’s the Pencil and S3 shooter problem of insane gear freedom (though the shooter part isn’t that huge a problem). And even then, you have to consider that fizzy is now at 65% so that also has A LOT of gear dependency for double fizzy, which some weapons NEED LDE and a sub of sub saver and now it needs even more. In short, imo gear dependency is not a bad thing unless it completely controls how a weapon functions, which if LDE alone is enough to make it triple dart, I do genuinely think it’s okay, and a main and two subs while a lot, is not the worst thing in the world.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

If it’s able to potentially do 65 with two darts from Liter range alone and maybe even do 90, I really don’t think it NEEDS the sub saver to be worth it. And even if it was, gear dependency is usually a necessary cost to insane abilities. Otherwise, there’s the Pencil and S3 shooter problem of insane gear freedom (though the shooter part isn’t that huge a problem). And even then, you have to consider that fizzy is now at 65% so that also has A LOT of gear dependency for double fizzy, which some weapons NEED LDE and a sub of sub saver and now it needs even more. In short, imo gear dependency is not a bad thing unless it completely controls how a weapon functions, which if LDE alone is enough to make it triple dart, I do genuinely think it’s okay, and a main and two subs while a lot, is not the worst thing in the world.

Fair. Considering that we're also buffing the damage, I think this is fine for now, but I can't say for sure how I feel about it until I figure out how to test it.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Is the minimum ink consumption still 32%? If so, it might feel pretty bad to run more than 16AP of ISS, since the entire distance from 16AP to 57AP only reduces it by 1.3%. Can the minimum value be directly edited to, say, 30%? How much of an effect would this have on the rest of the curve?

 

[Terret]

Is the minimum ink consumption still 32%? If so, it might feel pretty bad to run more than 16AP of ISS, since the entire distance from 16AP to 57AP only reduces it by 1.3%. Can the minimum value be directly edited to, say, 30%? How much of an effect would this have on the rest of the curve?

It can’t be directly edited, that said, from what it looks like, the minimum now is likely 24%

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I have a theory that this new sub scaling is the same, except sub saver has double the effect. If I am right about this, then triple dart should be possible with only 5 subs, and quadruple dart should be possible with 3 mains 5 subs. Is this correct?

Idk how you test things but if you don't have enough sub saver gear for it that's fine, I wouldn't either. I do like the new curve though, even if it isn't exactly double the effect of the old one

 

[Terret]

I have a theory that this new sub scaling is the same, except sub saver has double the effect. If I am right about this, then triple dart should be possible with only 5 subs, and quadruple dart should be possible with 3 mains 5 subs. Is this correct?

Idk how you test things but if you don't have enough sub saver gear for it that's fine, I wouldn't either. I do like the new curve though, even if it isn't exactly double the effect of the old one

If I’m not mistaken, that should be the case, yes. I tested a main and two subs and it reached triple dart and then I used Sendou.ink to check how it scaled with Beakon and Sprinkler which have the same scaling in that 3 pures means subs cost 3/5 of the cost, so I’d say yes, that is the case.

 

[a hot mess]

sprinkler should fire more shots.
it just doesn't sprinkle right.

 

[a hot mess]

make the shots smaller too. then it really sprinkles.

 

[Terret]

sprinkler should fire more shots.
it just doesn't sprinkle right.

I’ll look into it. I haven’t figured out how to alter the sprinkling atm tho

 

[a hot mess]

and make reefslider's explosion radius shorter please <)

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I haven't done anything with xlink kai yet but I think I have a decent understanding of what it does and how it works. But what I don't understand is how am I supposed to use it to modify Splatoon? It looks like it's only for connecting players. How are you running riibalanced?