Random balance changes you want

isaac4

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It's a needed nerf so their subs and specials aren't nerfed, because unlike specific mains, the subs and specials affect other main weapons if they're nerfed.

Also, other slow-shooting weapons survived just fine without being a 3 shot kill.
I understand what you're going for, when it comes to shooters the devs are more willing to nerf their subs and specials than the main weapon itself which is bad for other weapons that aren't as flexible and rely on their kit more.
The only problem is that the fast kill time 52. and 96. have are part of their identity, on top of their rng which would make a 3 shot a bigger problem for them.
You could just reduce their rng but then that'd just make them even more similar to the rest of the shooters like Splattershot.
I'd prefer other aspects to be nerfed since that would balance out their damage(specifically 52. Gal).
 

OnePotWonder

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A 1 frame fire rate nerf would put .52 more in line with other shooters without hampering its fast kill time too badly. Combined with the Splash Wall rework, I think v52 would be in a mostly healthy spot.
 

missingno

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You're asking to bring .52 from a 12f TTK to 21f, and .96 from 15f to 27f. Yes, that is way too severe!

Being fast 2-hits are literally the core of these weapons' identity. .52 may be slightly overtuned, but destroying a weapon's identity is not the way to nerf it, look at literally any other property instead. And .96 is fine, why are we even going after .96?

No weapon has ever had its number of hits to kill changed, and there is no way in hell they will ever do that now. I don't think they've ever even changed a TTK at all, though I might be forgetting something.
 

isaac4

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Sloshing Machine.
RIP pre-4.0 Sloshing Machine.

Getting back on topic though, I have some few more ideas specifically for Cooler.
  • The location of your teams Tacticooler now shows up on the map
  • A small meter is placed next to Cooler on the map to show how much longer the special has before it disappears.
  • There's now an icon on top (or next?) of the player character after receiving Cooler buffs to show how long they'll be active for.
I really like the first two ideas.
There's a lot of situations in Solo where my teammate pops Cooler away from me while I'm trying to holding down an important area of the map and because I'm not exactly sure where it's placed I just have to stay there and make sure the enemy team doesn't get in, even if it wouldn't take that long to swim there and back.
I actually like that sort of weakness for Cooler with having to swim closer to where the special is placed if you want the buffs but potentially letting the enemy team get in if you do. I don't think you'll lose that from letting players know where the special is on the map though, knowing the distance won't change the fact that you'll still have to swim back.
It'll also help with deciding who to jump to for getting the closest you can to Cooler if it was popped after you died.
Having a meter will let you know if there's even enough time to swim to where it's placed.

I could see the third idea being a problem though.
Potentially encouraging players to play passively until their Cooler is about to run out and then go in for a trade.
 

Smash Arena

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Improvements to Tenacity would be nice. I like the idea of the ability, but I just don't find it very effective when playing. Perhaps increasing its special fill rate could be helpful or giving it an additional passive ability. It's on a lot of cool pieces of gear like the Gas Mask too.
 

isaac4

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I knew I probably was forgetting something!

And it turned out to be way too harsh of an overnerf, didn't it?
Yeah but that was by 5 frames which only made its already pretty bad weaknesses worse.
Machine won't always 2 shot either, there's still the chance of missing your direct which drastically increases its kill time from what it used to be.
One extra frame for 52. won't be anywhere near as impactful.
 

missingno

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This conversation started with Cephalobro wanting to make both Gals 3-shot kills. That's a 9f nerf to .52 and 12f nerf to .96, which is significantly worse than how badly Machine got dumpstered.
 

OnePotWonder

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This conversation started with Cephalobro wanting to make both Gals 3-shot kills. That's a 9f nerf to .52 and 12f nerf to .96, which is significantly worse than how badly Machine got dumpstered.
True, but none of us have agreed with Cephalobro’s proposal. Not wanting shooters that are able to freely two-shot is a fair sentiment, but the only good way to be rid of two-shot shooters is to completely remove the Gals in Splatoon 4. Making them three-shot, even if properly balanced, steps on the toes of other shooters too much.

Until then, reasonable nerfs for the thing would be greatly appreciated.
 

isaac4

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This conversation started with Cephalobro wanting to make both Gals 3-shot kills. That's a 9f nerf to .52 and 12f nerf to .96, which is significantly worse than how badly Machine got dumpstered.
I'll try to make this short since this thread has gotten really off topic but I thought we all already agreed on making it a 3 shot being too much so I assumed you were replying to Onepot (or should I just say Pot? @OnePotWonder) about his idea for 52. which would also have made the weapons kill time slightly worse.
 

DzNutsKong

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I apologize if someone already said any part of this as I only skimmed the conversation before this, very tired and it's been a long day so I'll keep it at this - we already have Splash, Splattershot, and Zap with identical playstyles and minimal differences. Making 52 Gal a three shot or worsening its fire rate a bunch would effectively make it the same as those. There's not much point in completely removing a weapon that can make very unique plays compared to these from the game when I could list half a dozen ways you could even pick several of to nerf it if you wanted to keep it in tact. It's not like there aren't already several weapons in the game that are focused on being good at fighting as is, and it's not like 52 Gal can't be given nerfs to be put more in line with those.

To get back to the point of this thread...
  • Make H-3's end lag just a little bit shorter, or maybe reduce the time between each of its three shots instead. I don't see this weapon ever being good in this game unless it gets something.
  • Give Dynamo's vertical flick more minimum damage. Maybe 60? I know some Dynamos use this but it seems really undertuned.
  • Make it so enemies can't see a Goo Tuber when it has its charge hold. A drastic change, maybe a bit strong or toxic, but the weapon's in such a dire state that it probably needs major, repeated changes for things to work here.
  • Make it so Bloblobber needs five or six pellets to kill someone but firing shots now lets you smack people with the bucket itself, which has a tiny hitbox that one-shots people. Splatanapilled rework that's really freaking stupid
  • Allow Luna Blaster to retreat to swim form faster out of a shot. Ideally it can swim in between shots with a similar kill time for its indirects as it currently has when it doesn't go to swim form in the middle.
  • Make Inkbrush less mashing intensive. Please. I want to play this weapon again
  • Make it so you can't Squid Roll into Toxic Mist and it lasts a liiiittle bit longer after thrown. Genuinely awful subweapon.
  • Give Angle Shooter a wider hitbox the closer you are to someone. Somehow an even worse subweapon than Toxic Mist. I'm still dead convinced this is the developers' idea of a "less overpowered" sidegrade Burst Bomb for weapons they think would be strong with it and this kinda plays to that while leaving the funny sniping and marking stuff it can do alive.
  • Give Reefslider much more startup, completely remove its endlag after exploding, make bombs caught in its explosion break, allow its rails to travel twice as far and make it move twice as fast. I've gone in detail about this rework before and I don't want to again.
  • Revert Trizooka's startup to Splatoon 1 and reduce its outer hitbox damage back to 40.
  • Remove Splattercolor Screen's ability to hurt real life human beings unless they specifically are using Jackpot's banner, in which case it instead crashes the effected player's Switch and sends a Nintendo Ninja to their front door
 

youre_a_squib_now

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They should make it so you can press Y to switch control styles on the semi-autos and brushes (like how you adjust gear.)
it would switch between how it is now and a version where pressing ZR is a shot and letting go of ZR is another shot. That way you don't have to break your fingers.
 

chaotik0

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goo tuber will now continue charging during its charge hold

this would be so cool and make it like not as bad
 

OnePotWonder

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Now I *could* go on a tirade about how I want Goo Tuber to be reworked into two separate weapons each with half of the original‘s gimmicks for the sake of making it simpler, but I won’t do that this time.
Instead, two simple, completely independent proposals.

First, turning Goo Tuber into a stringer. One shot, long range, no explosion. The first ring of charge exclusively increases the weapon’s damage and the second exclusively increases range. Obviously keeps the charge hold gimmicks. This makes the weapon a lot more flexible and gives it a stronger identity. Will it step on REEF-LUX’s toes? Probably not?

Second, making the Goo Tuber a Two Goober, a Goo Twober, you might say. When fully charged, the weapon can fire twice, akin to Snipewriter’s five shots. It would also deal lethal damage once half charged. In exchange, its range only increases for the second half of its charge, it would gain a smidgen more overall charge time, and it loses its ability to instantly exit a charge hold. This supposedly makes the weapon weird in a good way.

Goo Tuber is difficult to balance without overcomplicating it due to how reliant it is on its complicated web of gimmicks. I pity anyone who tries.
 

Cephalobro

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The Splat Bomb can now explode in midair, excluding the Salmon Run Splat Bomb where it keeps the same properties as it had.

The fact that there isn't a single bomb sub that can explode in midair without contact is honestly surprising, considering it could be used as a deterrence to many lockdown attempts, which is greatly needed due to the stupidly linear layout of most stages in Splatoon 3.
 

McSquid82

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Everybody keeps talking about the .52 Gal, and I've said this on another thread, but I'll say it again. It hasn't been touched since last game and since then a ton of other weapons have gotten buffs and a few minor nerfs. There's too many to list, but I'll just say this: power creep is a thing. If a weapon doesn't get touched for a long time, the other weapons start catching up, and its advantages start narrowing considerably.

To give a specific example though, I'll cite the Glooga Dualies. If hypothetically the .52 was to get nerfed like a lot of people in here seem to want, you risk the Gloogas rising up to take its place. They can also 2 shot after a roll, but the cherry on top is that they actually have better range than the .52. Add to that that the Vanilla Gloogas have an identical kit to the infamous K52 of the last game, and the Deco ones have the same one as the Neo Machine in this game, and you could have a problem. Lastly, aside from the other stuff I've listed, the Gloogas have borderline identical stats to the .52 otherwise and have only received buffs on top of that. They've literally never been nerfed in their history.
 

missingno

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Glooga are not just .52 with a dodge roll, and killing .52 would not suddenly make them rise up. The fact that they have the kGal kit and still see almost no representation should tell you that the main weapon really isn't that good.
 

OnePotWonder

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Speaking of Glooga Dualies, increasing its damage so a standard fire shot and a turret mode shot combo together would be an excellent change.

…For Splatoon 4. Its kits are both annoying in this game, so I think that it shouldn’t be buffed that significantly until it gets new ones.
 

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