Splatoon 2: Find Out What's Fresh! (General Discussion)

[Elecmaw]

Am I the only one who thinks the majority of abilities in this game are useless? I keep giving some I don't like a try, but end up not thinking they're worth a slot.

You're not the only one. I mostly end up using Swim Speed Up, Bomb Defense Up and Ink Resistance as abilities because i find them far more useful than any other ability in the game. Swim Speed Up in particular so good because it lets you get out of spawn faster, avoid attacks faster, pursue targets faster, carry the rainmaker faster. It's so universally helpful.

Quick Respawn has been nerfed so much it's completely useless. QSJ should be able to fill the gap left by the nerf of QR, but in most games the amount of times i have a safe moment to SJ back into the fight are 1-2 making it kind of wasted. Drop Roller also does just about nothing and the nerf on SJ makes it also a weak ability to pick. Special Charge/Special Saver Up have also been indirectly nerfed by the weaker specials.

 

[MINKUKEL]

Yeah, any ability related to super jumps is already useless because I rarely super jump. Bomb Defense up is IMO too situational. Usually if a opponent kills you, extra defense against bombs won't change that (same reason really why Defense up was useless in S1), and I rarely get killed by Burst Bombs. That basically makes it something super rarely useful, and that's not worth a slot.

Then there's stuff like Last-Ditch effort, which sounds nice, but I already make sure my Ink efficiency is properly taken care of for the other 2:30 (or more) of the match, so the actual boost you get is near-useless. Comeback is out for the same reason.

There's nothing to shred, so there's no use for Object Shredder (this one takes the cake for most useless ability probably). There's not a lot of times I get hit by a Point Sensor, so 90% of matches Cold-Blooded goes unused. Quick Respawn only works if you don't kill between splats, which isn't a scenario that really happens. Respawn Punisher probably nets you a 3 seconds of extra annoyance for the other team (less so because you also respawn slower), which is very, very little to waste an entire slot on.
Well, the list goes on.

At least it makes getting good gear less complicated I guess.

 

[Award]

Am I the only one who thinks the majority of abilities in this game are useless? I keep giving some I don't like a try, but end up not thinking they're worth a slot.

I wouldn't judge people solely by their rank. I've seen lots of people with high levels who apparentely don't play certain modes because they were C- in whatever ranked mode was currently in rotation. Yet they were perfectly fine teammates in Turf War. Hell, I myself am C- in Rainmaker and --- in Tower Control because I hate those modes.

I agree about most abilities. I suppose Gambit/Last-Ditch have a place in competitive play.....it's almost worthless solo because you can't make reliable use of that opening push or closing push but I can see where in a coordinated quad environment how you can have a full team strategy revolving around using those first/last 30 seconds fully. QR, same...useless solo, but I suppose quad you can assign someone a dedicated rider/carrier role where they don't splat anyone and just keep dying on the tower. But that's harder to defend. Punisher, thermal, etc. seem useless. Dodge roll.....I've seen it used well but it's so situational that it seems a waste. And stealth jump has been neutered.

Yeah I agree about ranks...heck I have no mode/account over B+ right now.....I just ignore solo ranked except maybe Clam now. Too frustrating watching your rank drop due to bad matchmaking rather than because you didn't play well when you know you should be winning. Probably drives people crazy when a B+ shows up in their lobby and they think it's a cakewalk and I'm playing above that :P BUT it's still a pretty good gauge overall. The low rank people may really be high skill people, but the high rank people are (usually) high skill people. Maybe not at controlling the tower or running the RM, but their actual play ability and "gamer sense" is still going to be good. For TW.....2 totally unranked players on your team says it all (unless they're alts) :)

So far I'm lucking out with enough great teams with great teamwork in clam. Unfortunately in regular rotation it means I can play clam like once a week since it's now in for, what, 3-4 hours a day only? The odds are 1:4 that it's on during the 3-4 hour window I have to play.

 

[Award]

You're not the only one. I mostly end up using Swim Speed Up, Bomb Defense Up and Ink Resistance as abilities because i find them far more useful than any other ability in the game. Swim Speed Up in particular so good because it lets you get out of spawn faster, avoid attacks faster, pursue targets faster, carry the rainmaker faster. It's so universally helpful.

Quick Respawn has been nerfed so much it's completely useless. QSJ should be able to fill the gap left by the nerf of QR, but in most games the amount of times i have a safe moment to SJ back into the fight are 1-2 making it kind of wasted. Drop Roller also does just about nothing and the nerf on SJ makes it also a weak ability to pick. Special Charge/Special Saver Up have also been indirectly nerfed by the weaker specials.

I hear you so much on rarity of safe jumps. If only everyone realized you shouldn't ALWAYS SJ... :( Specials seem to still be able to turn the tide pretty well, and especially splashdown (which is like half the weapons in the game) are really helped by having it more often available. A mini nuke on board is always a good plan.

Yeah, any ability related to super jumps is already useless because I rarely super jump. Bomb Defense up is IMO too situational. Usually if a opponent kills you, extra defense against bombs won't change that (same reason really why Defense up was useless in S1), and I rarely get killed by Burst Bombs. That basically makes it something super rarely useful, and that's not worth a slot.

Then there's stuff like Last-Ditch effort, which sounds nice, but I already make sure my Ink efficiency is properly taken care of for the other 2:30 (or more) of the match, so the actual boost you get is near-useless. Comeback is out for the same reason.

There's nothing to shred, so there's no use for Object Shredder (this one takes the cake for most useless ability probably). There's not a lot of times I get hit by a Point Sensor, so 90% of matches Cold-Blooded goes unused. Quick Respawn only works if you don't kill between splats, which isn't a scenario that really happens. Respawn Punisher probably nets you a 3 seconds of extra annoyance for the other team (less so because you also respawn slower), which is very, very little to waste an entire slot on.
Well, the list goes on.

At least it makes getting good gear less complicated I guess.

I agree on bomb defense. Never really felt too helpful even in S1. Comeback can be good if you do a lot of kamikaze runs. Lets me use one comeback slot instead of more than one slot for swim/ink/special when I'm doing something like RM octobrush where I mostly kamikaze straight at the RM carrier in a defensive/assassin role which is how I played RM in S1 (before @Saber convinced me to try vanilla blaster.) It means I die often enough that I almost always have comeback active. Cold blooded does seem to have little use with the absence of echolocator. (and of course all my random slots get that or QR), Shredder.....I've never really used it, but it's popular in RM because it helps you pop the shield faster, so it may have single mode utility. Thermal ink to me takes the cake as most useless. If you hit your enemy with the main weapon, but failed to kill them and they managed to hide behind obstacles, you're probably screwed anyway. That sounds like an ability for a slow paced tactical game, not Red Bull infused Sploon. And punisher SOUNDS so good, but it seems to not really be felt at all. Supposedly you get it worse than your enemy....and I've never really felt it.

 

[MINKUKEL]

Thermal Ink definitely is useless, as is Haunt, sadly. If Haunt still placed a point-sensor tracking thingy on the opponent like in S1, I'd maybe use it.

I never really have moments where Comeback could be useful. I actually gave the ability another shot the other day, and even in the most chaotic Ranked matches, I didn't feel like it had any effect. For starters, the effect is pretty much useless anyway if you're already running a good set. But it also simply doesn't happen to me that I get killed that quickly in succession. And if it doesn't happen to someone like me who plays quite aggressively...

 

[Cyan]

I third the whole "abilities are useless" thing. They destroyed Run Speed, Quick Respawn, Ink Recovery Up (I believe this one now has slower recovery times in exchange for slightly faster ink recovery when not submerged), Ink Resistance (stacking is awful), Cold-Blooded (was killed off with the 50% decrease from 75% in 1, stacking and less tracking items worsened it), Haunt (only you can see them through walls, really?), and Stealth Jump (might have been needed, but still, wasn't the ability, was QR and SJ together). Quick Super Jump was never good and all the new ones are utterly useless too.

Bomb Defence does absolutely zilch to help, I stacked 2 mains 2 subs of it when everything rated it as "it's SO effective against Inkjets" and still got destroyed by them and only Burst Bombs get a true counter from it. Object Shredder works on Ink Armor (got nerfed so irrelevant perk), Baller, Splash Walls (only like 4 weapons have that and most aren't used), Rainmaker shield (again useless) and Bubble Blower (with the buffs it is useless on your team's, only good for trying to counter enemy bubbles). Drop Roller is terrible for many reasons, Stealth Jump doesn't work when the game is all about close range and small maps, so proximity to see the jump is guaranteed and a waste of a slot. Thermal Ink only works if they are in human form (and most people stay submerged so useless, plus short range meta so even worse), Ninja Squid still has uses I guess, Haunt was killed off majorly (they should buff it to leave the echo mark 1-style and let the victim see them through walls until that player is killed) and Respawn Punisher is useless.

Tenacity is still a decent choice, combining that with a weapon where you stay alive more than your team and the auto-charge mechanic of Ranked and you have a better way of getting specials than you do by piling up Special Charge Up or Special Saver. Comeback is great because you get 4 subs of for 20 seconds after respawning. Opening Gambit is still bad due to being a dead weight for 4:30+ or 2:30 since you only get 3 mains of Run and Swim for the first 30 seconds, and with Run Speed nerfs it helps no-one. Last Ditch Effort still retains its activation when the enemy team reaches 30 and lower, and gives you 5 subs of (data is coming from the Wiki), so for ink efficiency it's great, but the QR perk is useless in this game, but as we all know it's very situational and is usually activated too late to make a difference unless you're playing Rainmaker or Tower (or in 2's case Clam Blitz).

This leaves the stackable abilities, which I've covered . Ink Saver Main and Sub are still very useful, and are pretty much my exclusively used abilities. Swim Speed still works out nicely so I squeeze that on when my weapon doesn't need as much ISM and ISS. When I play faster weapons like Dapple and Splash I usually go 1m/3s Run Speed and Swim Speed with Comeback and it works out quite well. I tend to go for Comeback and Tenacity so Special Charge and Saver are out the question for me (and they usually are wasted slots anyway) and I haven't any use for Sub Power Up yet (there are 1 or 2 weapons coming down the line where I could use it) as I don't need further bomb range and the perks for other subs aren't worth it excluding Splash Walls (a hint for one weapon I want to use it on :P). Special Power Up seems cool for Bubble Blower, but that special is underwhelming, the faster activation for Ink Armor is great but situational and requires at least 2-3 mains worth to be useful and the larger explosion damage radius is nice for Splashdown and Baller but I never have need of it. So my ability selection is nothing more than . It's great for investing in to for avoiding ink issues (I use a lot of ink heavy weapons, SSPro and Hydra for example) and combining with a small amount of swim speed works wonders. When I occasionally feel forced into being boring and playing Splattershot I put on a small amount of ISM and ISS, Comeback and some swim speed. This is just my take on it, we all value some exclusive abilities differently but Tenacity is amazing on weapons that won't lay as much ink down like Hydra & Rapid Pro (more crucially ones that stay back and alive when the team goes down) and Comeback is nice for the constant 20 second boost to get back (I benefit from it quite a bit anyway).

 

[Ansible]

Meh, something must be wrong with my mindset then. I level/grind gear of varying abilities in turf, ranked, and league so often and run into so many different circumstances with them that I'm quite accustomed to figuring out ways to put them to work. I'll even just make an outfit, look at the mishmash of abilities, and then figure it out as I go.

However, there are indeed some abilities that currently have a limited range of uses to me. And by limited I mean creating circumstances to warrant using them (e.g. Quick Respawn or Respawn Punisher).

 

[Saber]

I know there are some abilities that most fund useless but I will admit there are a few places for these abilitis to shine through if you know what they work best with

For example imo I feel that sub power up is one of the most useful special by far for beacons and especially in clam blitz. Team buff super ump is amazing and very useful for moving around the battlefield.
QSJ is great with drop roller on weapons that can quickly get kills so you can rejoin the battle and even take out a enemy or two in the process.

Thermal ink is great on Splatlings and H-3 since both can use it to better track enemies for a team (should be more visible but it can work).

Respawn punisher is somewhat useful on any weapon that can minimie their own deaths. Usually this is allocated to chargers but imagine if you put this on a slayer like a N-zap, you need to be more careful, but if you can get 15+ kills you are keeping enemies out of the game for 45 seconds, 45 seconds of a 3v4 throughout the game.

Comeback is most useful from what I have seen on no range weapons aka inkbrush, blasters, and sploosh o'matic. Whereas Tenacity is great on long mid to long range weapons since they usually keep their distance from fights

Lastly bomb defense is great for chargers since most player in the close range meta can only reach you with their subs or specials both of which this protects you against.


I am not saying all the special are good, quick respawn and cold blooded are up there with haunt as terrible abilities, but other fit into a small niche that makes them enjoyable

Also @Award found another silly meta weapon, custom eliter with sub up and special ability up with a little mobility play 5 games with it and didn't lose a single one, mainly cause no one expects a flanking eliter:D

 

[MINKUKEL]

Ehm...hate to break it to ya @Saber , but Respawn Punisher only adds less than a second of respawn time, so you'll never get those 45 seconds. And Thermal Ink doesn't show up for your other teammates.

If you're using a charger and people start throwing bombs at you, most likely you either die, or you get indirect damage. Bomb Defense up isn't going to help you against the former, and the latter doesn't matter if you're on a good camping position. In practice, nothing is gonna be different.

Also, @Cyan, pretty sure the Baller only gets a health boost from Special Power Up. That's honestly another useless ability. Maybe it's useful for Bubble Blower, but Bubble Blower blows, so who knows.
I've used Tenacity, and it's useful in some matches, but totally worthless in others. It's a good Ranked replacement for Special Charge up, for certain weapons. Limited, but still useful to some extend.

I really want to like Comeback/Gambit/Last-Ditch, but in practice, they all add things you already want to have sorted out, and it's not like 20 or 30 seconds extra of it is gonna help you enough. 20 seconds is a bit too short to profit from extra ink efficiency considering you also still have to make your way to the battlefield.

 

[ultra777]

I use Thermal Ink whenever I use the Custom Jet Squelcher. It feels like Thermal Ink was made for that weapon. If you didn't splat your enemy (which is very likely because of it's low damage output) and they become weakened but hide behind a wall you could toss a burst bomb over the wall instead of chasing them down since going offensive with the Jet can be very dangerous. And if they escaped to where your burst bombs can't reach them then you pull out the Sting Ray. Thermal Ink doesn't work with Sting Ray unless you hit your opponent with your main gun and use Sting Ray immediately afterward. The effect will still apply for its duration to the opponent that was marked with your main weapon.

 

[Zak98]

I use Thermal Ink whenever I use the Custom Jet Squelcher. It feels like Thermal Ink was made for that weapon. If you didn't splat your enemy (which is very likely because of it's low damage output) and they become weakened but hide behind a wall you could toss a burst bomb over the wall instead of chasing them down since going offensive with the Jet can be very dangerous. And if they escaped to where your burst bombs can't reach them then you pull out the Sting Ray. Thermal Ink doesn't work with Sting Ray unless you hit your opponent with your main gun and use Sting Ray immediately afterward. The effect will still apply for its duration to the opponent that was marked with your main weapon.

Oh, I can't wait for everyone to start using that gear; it will be a .52 gal situation all over again...can't wait to get pissed off.

 

[Green Waffles]

:v
-A main or two of qsj makes super jump retreats noticeably quicker. And if you thought saving some time with swim speed is good, qsj does the same, just with super jumps.(little direct firefight application, but still time saving)
-Even though we don't have bubbler, kraken, inkstrike, or whatever else,
specials are still quite a bit stronger than mains/subs (or a whole lot of subs, in bomb launcher's case)
having that crucial special at the right time to halt/maintain a push is nothing to shrug off, so special saver and special charge are still good

Drop roller is kinda weird, it is good for risky super jumps (which can work, if they didn't, randoms in S+ players wouldn't keep trying it I'm confident squids would eventually learn not to do risky super jumps if they were never successful) but utterly useless for safe jumps.
Also inkjet '3' (Yes, drop roller works for inkjet return jump. Oddly though, stealth does not.)

Abilities I don't like
-thermal ink(on non dynamo weapons)
-haunt(still OK, but it wasn't being abused back in splat 1, why the nerf?)
-QR(not useless, but I'm far too aggressive to consider it most of the time)
-Ink resistance(probably still usable, but I'd stick it in with haunt: why nerf???)
-cold blooded (echo-locator spam weapons are gone, don't bother... also why nerf?)

 

[MINKUKEL]

:v
-A main or two of qsj makes super jump retreats noticeably quicker. And if you thought saving some time with swim speed is good, qsj does the same, just with super jumps.(little direct firefight application, but still time saving)

The problem isn't that it doesn't work, the problem is that it's not always safe to super jump. Swim speed up also gives you an advantage in the rest of the match, not just when you're going back.

 

[Green Waffles]

<_> I feel like you ignored the first sentence of my post. When you retreat jump, you're jumping away because where you are is not safe.

 

[MINKUKEL]

For some reason I read that as 'return'...!

Anyway, I don't do cop-out superjumps. Makes me feel like a *****. :p

EDIT: Well, I guess the p-word is censored here. A wussy, then.

 

[Award]

Ehm...hate to break it to ya @Saber , but Respawn Punisher only adds less than a second of respawn time, so you'll never get those 45 seconds. And Thermal Ink doesn't show up for your other teammates.

If you're using a charger and people start throwing bombs at you, most likely you either die, or you get indirect damage. Bomb Defense up isn't going to help you against the former, and the latter doesn't matter if you're on a good camping position. In practice, nothing is gonna be different.

Also, @Cyan, pretty sure the Baller only gets a health boost from Special Power Up. That's honestly another useless ability. Maybe it's useful for Bubble Blower, but Bubble Blower blows, so who knows.
I've used Tenacity, and it's useful in some matches, but totally worthless in others. It's a good Ranked replacement for Special Charge up, for certain weapons. Limited, but still useful to some extend.

I really want to like Comeback/Gambit/Last-Ditch, but in practice, they all add things you already want to have sorted out, and it's not like 20 or 30 seconds extra of it is gonna help you enough. 20 seconds is a bit too short to profit from extra ink efficiency considering you also still have to make your way to the battlefield.

Any time I've tried punsher it creates no meaningful difference....I don't seem gone long, and players don't seem gone long. It seems to have a net neutral effect. Nintendo thinks 1/60th second differences change things significantly so it's believable that it would be such short duration. I'd love to know how they're interpreting their play data to make these changes that don't seem to have much effect (or to think punisher is good.) But then, I am convinced everything they do is based on the Japanese elite player meta which seems quite different from elsewhere. I know one really really elite player that is VERY deadly with bubble blower. With fully stacked (every slot, or every slot but one) special damage up. But normal players aren't stacking full perfects. I think some of it is just designed for the absurd-high end. Played yesterday against a BRUTAL Japanese gold dynamo in quad. 27+ kills on the dynamo. Everyone else on both teams was far below that. Now I'm pretty good with gold dynamo but that level was just surreal! Stacked ink saver main of course, at least 6-7 subs and at least 2 mains.

I use Thermal Ink whenever I use the Custom Jet Squelcher. It feels like Thermal Ink was made for that weapon. If you didn't splat your enemy (which is very likely because of it's low damage output) and they become weakened but hide behind a wall you could toss a burst bomb over the wall instead of chasing them down since going offensive with the Jet can be very dangerous. And if they escaped to where your burst bombs can't reach them then you pull out the Sting Ray. Thermal Ink doesn't work with Sting Ray unless you hit your opponent with your main gun and use Sting Ray immediately afterward. The effect will still apply for its duration to the opponent that was marked with your main weapon.

Sting ray comes with it's own universal thermal ink though....

 

[MindWanderer]

I'm actually a big fan of Comeback and Bomb Defense Up. Comeback grants a boost to Swim Speed when it's most useful (returning to the action from spawn), and boosts a bunch of other stuff as well, notably Special Charge Up, which is always nice after you get killed. BDU has saved my bacon countless times when I take a couple of near misses, mostly from Inkjet and Tenta Missiles, although it's most helpful with some Ink Resistance so the tick damage you take from being in enemy ink after the first hit doesn't flip the scales back. And I frequently find myself running out of ink while standing in enemy ink, so Ink Recovery Up helps a fair bit.

As for Swim Speed Up by itself, the benefit of having it is pretty small unless you're using a heavy weapon. With a normal-weight weapon, one main of Swim Speed turns a 5-second swim into 4.62 seconds, scarcely noticeable. It's a nice little boost but I think it's overrated.

 

[ultra777]

Sting ray comes with it's own universal thermal ink though....

What I meant was that the Thermal Ink effect will apply while you're shooting the Sting Ray. Normally it disappears while you're firing the laser but now it still applies to the one (or multiple) enemy you marked with you're main weapon. It is somewhat situational but it's still a use.

 

[Flopps]

Am I the only one who thinks the majority of abilities in this game are useless? I keep giving some I don't like a try, but end up not thinking they're worth a slot.

I wouldn't judge people solely by their rank. I've seen lots of people with high levels who apparentely don't play certain modes because they were C- in whatever ranked mode was currently in rotation. Yet they were perfectly fine teammates in Turf War. Hell, I myself am C- in Rainmaker and --- in Tower Control because I hate those modes.

So some degree, yes. Respawn punisher is too risky to run, Quick Re-spawn is too sucky, Drop Roller is situational, Stealth Jump is also useless, Thermal ink applies to a few weapons, Opening Gambit becomes useless throughout the battle, Haunt doesn't work as well as it used too, and Cold-blooded is useless without Echolocater.

Overall, most of these abilities can be only used for one thing or are too weak. Also, I wish bomb sniffer returned. I miss that ability now that autobombs exist.

 

[MindWanderer]

Also, I wish bomb sniffer returned. I miss that ability now that autobombs exist.

Bomb Sniffer would be crazy good in S2. I get killed by bombs a lot more in S2 than ever in S1. Sometimes it's Autobombs, sometimes it's blind corners (which there are more of now), sometimes it's the new splashier effects (especially the damage haze) obscuring my vision. And for some reason they seem to get hidden behind/in front of my own character much more often now.