Mafia 3 | Game OVER! Who won?!

[Drez]

I wanted to post this introductory theory for mafia, since this seems to be a game for newer players. I generated this as an IC in an old newbie game, but didn't change any of it up. I feel this is important for the newer players to at least think about before end game, as there are many things to keep in mind. Both spoilers are quite long, but these I put some time into formatting to make it easy to read, and with plenty of examples. Please do at least skim through it when you have the time, at least before end game!! (I have copy pasted this many times haha)

Enjoy!

Spoiler

Introduction

Ran here. Here are three simple tips you should follow for now:

• Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is, if you still do, hold those thoughts in notes until after the game finishes)
• Don't lie. Especially if you are a Vanilla Townie Role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end. Just don't lie at all, easier that way for you. Power Roles too, don't lie please. I'll talk a little bit about claiming soon.
• It's a game - have fun. My priority in mafia is to have fun, before winning. (I do want to win, yet my motivation to win is the fun)

RVS

We have started what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).

STANDARDS

Soup mentioned his standards. I have standards, but I won't tell you them. You know what Town (The good guys) has to do, and what Mafia (The bad guys) want to do. You act accordingly to the role you were given, and I'll judge if your play is satisfactory. Noobytownscumguy: "But wait, ... I don't know. ; _ ;" That's fine, just check out my next post!

OH AND DON'T YOU DARE EDIT YOUR POSTS, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED

Spoiler

Basic Theory Post

Premise

The premise of the game is simple. At it's core, there is a town, and usually there has been a killing during the night, which riles the town up and they start discussing, questioning, and even lynching to actually get some progress going in finding the criminals who did the killing. If there isn't a pre-game kill which would have riled them, then pretend there was, or just assume there is Mafia (Bad guys) in the town that we are looking for as Town (The Good guys).

Game wise, everyone will get their role sent to them privately, and is usually randomized, so everyone has an opportunity to randomly aqcuire a role they may like, or may not. :troll: The good guys (Town) won't know who the other Towns-Men are, because they only know their own alignment. The bad guys know who the other bad guys are (if there are more than one) because that way they can work together to discuss plans/strategies to hide from the town and destroy them.

Now then. The Town usually wake up, and discuss/vote/lynch during the day. Discussion involves who people find suspicious, and questioning those they find suspicious, and even voting their suspicions. Games start during the day, usually in normal setups. So expect to start during day. Then, after a lynch is set, night falls, and the Townies go to sleep, while Power Roles and The Mafia will be out at night. The Mafia stay up at night to kill the Townsmen, one by one. (One per night) Power roles stay up to find information about the whole town in general, depending on what they can do. Power roles in my opinion, should not lie just because they are a power role. Here is an example of how lying can go wrong:

Mafia Newbie 10:
#635
#638
#639

You shouldn't really read any further unless you want to confuse yourself. I'll give a summary. Basically, Vanderzant was town. I was the mafia. Third post shows Acrostic's reasoning for believing why Vanderzant may have been scum, yet, this lie cost Town the game. Why? Because Glyph came in, and put the final vote on Vanderzant giving scum the game. So please, don't lie as town. Even as a power role.

LYNCHING

First, let's count how much people there are. There are 9 people, which means the majority is half that number plus 1. So 9 alive, 5 to lynch. What "5 to lynch" means, is 5 individual votes on one person, to lynch. The sole purpose for Townies to be awake, is to find The Mafia (The bad guys), via lynching. That's the power of the Townies, while the power of The Mafia is killing one person per night. This is why, voting is important. Usually, you should use your votes on the people you believe are suspicious, and along with the reason you believe so. This way, other townies can be able to see your point of view with why you believe that person to be The Mafia, and may also vote along with you. Keep in mind that The Mafia may also vote along with you to have the sense of belonging to the town as well. This may be confusing, just remember that The Mafia's sole purpose is to survive, even with one sole member, so voting their own Mafia Member would benefit them in the long run if it would give them Town Credit.

Yadda yadda yadda, and blam. Somehow, you have 3 votes on scummymctowndude. The pressure is on him, and now he is working his butt off to defend himself. It is in town's best benefit to hear him out, because you may have thought his mindset was a Mafia Mindset, yet may have been a Town Mindset in which was thought in a different angle. Town should be able to explain their mindset's easily, since Town usually don't lie. They should always have reasons for why they do things. If they don't, (and are Town), then they should try better next time.

Now, someone else votes along (with reason) and puts 4/5 votes on that person. He is most likely getting lynched. He just got put at L-1, which means "1 vote to lynch". Just think of it as "Lynch -1" when Lynch = 5, and it's at 4. Uh oh. It's time to claim.

CLAIM and HAMMERS

What should one do at L-1? Claim. Should people hammer after someone claims? NO! You read the claim and think before doing so, same as you look both ways before crossing the street. You take the claim with caution. Claim your role, and flavor.

Townmcscumdude: I'm Willy Wonka, Town Inventer.
Situation: Townies think, and might let him live since he can be useful. Mafia might kill him at night, so would be ok to let him be and get another chance to lynch someone else.

Townmcscumdude: I'm **** Dastardly, Vanilla Townie.
Situation: It's A-Ok to go ahead with lynching him because he isn't a power role, may be lying about his role (since Vanilla Townie is easy to claim as Mafia) and Mafia now won't have a reason to guess at his role nor kill him. The 5th vote would be the HAMMER.

Hammering means that when you hammer (the final vote), you finalize the lynch, and it freezes up. This means there is NO going back on the lynch, it's done. This is why when you vote, you better be voting as if you are holding a trigger to that person's head, and are ready to shoot the gun. That's how serious you should be in voting, during the middle of the first day, and the end of it.

COUNTER CLAIMING

Townmcscumdude: I'm Alladin, Town Cop.
Situation: Ok, now this guy claims a role which should be confirmed town. What should town do? They wait for anyone else to Counter Claim this person, or have everyone say "Not Cop" to confirm that this person is a Legit Cop. Why should one wait for a Counter Claim? This person may be mafia trying to lure the Power Role out. And guess what? If this person is Mafia, and you are the Town Cop (or whatever role that person is claiming to be), that person is lying and YOU SHOULD COME OUT to grant him death. No hiding to get more confirmations of reads. Example of a person hiding as cop:

Bad Idea Mafia 4:
#1643

This is just the end game, yelling at the person who didn't counter claim scum. It was a scum win because of this. So remember, if someone claims YOUR ROLE, you come out. An eye for an eye. 1 for 1. 1 for 1's don't work in LoL, but here they do. Why? I'll talk about that in the next section.

ADVANTAGES OF TOWN AND MAFIA

Generally, The Town have the advantage in numbers, yet they don't know who the other town are. The advantage of the Mafia, is information. They are usually low in number in comparison to the Town, yet they know who the other Mafia are, so they can usually wiggle around the town. Example?

Think of Fire Emblem (Role Playing Strategy Game), and how Greil had him, Shinon, and Gatrie roam about in a three-man team, because they know smaller numbers = more room to run/manuever/take out men quickly. Shinon and Gatrie were pretty damn good at what they did, and Greil was a ****ing monster. This helped the rest of the Mercaniries take off some heat while in pursuit, because the greil pack would devastate the enemies while being in the shadows. This is sort of how the advantage for Mafia works, except their The Bad guys, and their enemies are The Town.

For town, it's easy to see. Since we don't know who other towns are, we'll have to lynch people without really knowing their alignment. We may be confident, yet we won't know until the mod posts the flip. This is why for town, it's good to have numbers, because we may have been very wrong, and for us to find mafia we may need extra chances, especially since we have low information at first. Eventually as the numbers get closer together, the town will be gaining more information and should be able to find The Mafia if they try hard enough, and are right enough.

So, why are 1 for 1's good? Because let's say with 9 people... a person claims your role? A 1 for 1 is very good because you only gave up 1 Town, to find 1 Mafia. (Instead of lynching alot of town before finding mafia). Bam, if you come out, this becomes 7 people with 1 mafia in it. (If there were only two, which usually it is). This keeps the Town up in numbers, while nerfing the Mafia to less numbers without the Mafia messing about in the town before it happened. Sure, you are town cop that wants to confirm more reads. You don't need to, you just essentially, got a guilty on scum when this happens. When you get a guilty, you SHOULD COME OUT THAT DAY AND WITH TIME to discuss. Just trust me bro, it's better that way. :smirk:

TL;DR

I think I covered everything that you should know for now. Remind me (or my bro, Soup) to cover end-game (not post-game) and Lylo/Mylo sometime during the day. Don't ask me if you haven't even read this post lolz. READ IT MOFO.

Things to remember.

• • This whole post covers what should happen during 1 Game Phase/Day. So this should happen every Game Phase/Day, until the very last Game Phase/Day. The Last Day is called Lylo, or rather, Lynch or Lose.
  • Don't lie as Town Vanilla or Town Power Role.
  • Come out as a Town Power Role when you have information to give to the town which can give them a certain chance of finding Mafia, or when someone claims your role. If you haven't gotten a guilty yet, just keep investigating, and come out on Day 3, it's the optimal move for cop. (Come out with two innocents, and yourself, equal's 3 confirmed town)
  • Don't claim a power role as Vanilla Town, you will get lynched. Just accept your fate.
  • Town have the advantage of numbers, Mafia have the advantage of information/intel.
  • The only chance Town has to get rid of Mafia, is through lynching.
  • Voting is important, treat it as a trigger of a gun. Should come along with reasons.
  • It should take a certain amount of votes to lynch; check the vote count/first game post to see how much it takes. In this game, it says "9 alive, 5 to lynch". Always check this number at the start of the day.
  • Claim at L-1, or "Lynch minus 1 (vote)". If power role, unvote, think, and decide the person's fate. Usually might live. If Vanilla Town role, usually go ahead and lynch.
  • The hammer (Final vote) freezes the lynch, which makes it finalized, meaning you can't go back from lynching. They are dead for good. This is why people must be careful when someone is at L-1. Good practice is unvoting if the wagon was going too fast, or if the person claimed a confirmed Power Role, or questionable Power Role.
  • Have fun, and try to learn via experience. Also follow my and Soup's example.

P.S. Soup~ If I forgot something, please cover it. Thanks ~
Your bro - Ran

 

[xCoCo]

Can you explain why you vote Boo here?

I was curious to see if he would reply or say anything. Not much of a reaction though. he just shrugged it off.

The early game has been empty and that's a very bad thing for town. It gives scum the chance to lurk and hide, and the game has been pretty stagnant, so I think scum are pretty comfortable right now. Those without much opinions or even trying to do anything is who I would look at. Boolerex sticks out to me on mentioning my slot but not even voting. Seems like scum trying to seed doubt in town without actually stepping on any toes.

Vote: Boolerex .

What if he's just trying to be catious though? I think this is his second game. Although last time when he posted he made some reads, but, he did have more content to work with.

 

[Drez]

I can understand being cautious with your vote, but do remember he mentioned that Platypuss may have been hiding. "Hey guys, look at this guy!" yet he had no intention to vote him. Him shrugging off your vote seems like he's trying to play it cool. You didn't have any reason to vote him, so it makes me wonder why he didn't even think about it. "Hey, Coco is voting me for now reason, but it's no big deal, probably nothing"

I would also like to know Boolerex's opinion on Coco. Otherwise, why else would he be cautious in his second game, in your opinion?

 

[Drez]

Let me clarify. I can understand when someone who is cautious with their vote, because they need evidence to make a solid vote. Yet Boolerex's actions don't line up with that, he isn't doing anything else to try to get reads. Instead he talked to Slaking about the lynching thing. Seeing as Thingy has played with Boolerex before and even night killed him, I am interested in his opinion on Boo and how it compares to the last game.

 

[Drez]

Reed, I have seen you viewing. Thingy earlier too when I posted the questions to the newbies.

 

[ReedRGale]

Yeah, I've just had time to read over things--had a friend over today. Anyway, action has picked up, so I'll sit down and actually make a post on what I think about things over the first day.

 

[ReedRGale]

Hello Reed. Good job as mafia in my previous game. I think you aren't as present as you were there (correct me if I am wrong). Why only vote Platy, and not comment on anything else?

##Vote: Unvote

First quick thing I'll address (because you asked me directly), mostly I was trying to put some pressure on Platy to actually get him to stop lurking which I guess no longer holds a point now that you've taken his place? I'll be seeing how you play, which seems to be with quite a bit of skill--I'll continue to observe those that I've seen play well to try to see what I can learn.

You ask a lot of the right questions and seem legitimately townie as you are pushing forward actions as a town. Pray, to get a better idea of your style, how would you go about day one if you were a mafia? I stole this question directly from Thingy last game. >_>

Rom-stein looked kind of suspicious at the start, voting xCoCo right away for the sake of it. And that whole "calm before the storm" thing?
Also, i'm kind of surprised Thingyman admitted(?) they're a townie right away. Is that a good idea to do?

Bit of newbie here, so I guess I'm being cautious and trying to pick up the strats.

So, I have the advantage of actually knowing that you're new to the mafia scene and not a clever veteran claiming otherwise. So yeah, you seem pretty genuine. The joke was a joke so I'm not going to claim he's a mafia just based off of the fact that he made a joke vote (though I will say that from what I've learned from the last game, RVS vote seems better than joke voting).

What do you think about the RVS for moving forward the game and as such, why avoid the initial vote? I understand the need to be defensive (I was last game after all), but I'd love to hear your thought process.

Hi, this does sometime confuse new players. But in reality, it's just something every player should do - claim that they are a townie, i.e. aligned with town. If you're not with town, then you need to get lynched, so obviously it's in every player's best interest to claim town. To be clear, I haven't claimed to be vanilla townie - or to NOT be vanilla townie. Now such claims in themselves are very useless, often it's just filler talk, though you can always try to look at those posts and try to read the tone of them to see if they seem genuine or not.

Thingy is dangerous. I know from experience. Do not trust. Even as mafia last game when I tried bussing him (and believe me, I tried really hard) I couldn't crack a shell in his townie game. Sorry Thingy, but I am biased against you from our previous game in the fact that I will, at the very least, be watching your every move.

I know from last game that your meta is to appear as town as possible by pushing along the investigation of the town in a direction away from you. I'll admit, I even jumped on the bandwagon of Platy because the logic was sound. So basically, how would you play mafia knowing that some of these people here understand your playstyle?

@xCoCo
I can't really ever tell anything about xCoco, she just seems so genuinely town all the time and there's nothing to really analyze. That said... last game I saw you as town. And you're playing the same way, but now you're actually making some reads, which is good. How would you play if you were mafia? Would you do the same thing you're doing now to avoid suspicion?

Well, doubt me if ya want, it's exactly what the game is : doubting everyone, because you never know who has which role.
However you didn't vote me right away. You're either being too much cautious, at the start of the game, or being a mafia who want to hide your role.

Well, glad you recognize that's the point of the game, but the other side of doubt is trust. You have to figure who is friend and who is foe. Really, as you just put it, you've done very little for the game and I'm curious why. Like, you accept the doubt but shouldn't you be defending your position? Your actions are suspicious and I don't quite know how to read them?? Leaning mafia, but it's early game, character is a hard thing to judge.

@Boolerex How're ya doin'? Thus far you're mostly jumping on the bandwagon, which is fair, but activity has picked up. What do you think about everyone right now? Got any reads thus far?

@slakingking1 I'm all for the strong silent type thing, but I'd also like to see what you think about stuff. Like, got any straight up thoughts to post about anyone in particular?

Think that's my thoughts so far. It's late for me (4 am) so maybe my logic isn't totally sound or I missed some posts in my stupor. Let me know if I'm being dumb somewhere.

 

[Drez]

I would do exactly what I mentioned that shouldn't happen, yet trying to appear as pro-town as possible. I'd be less active, letting others talk, and making the town as quite as possible so it makes it harder for them to find mafia. I'd post in a way to not put attention to myself. Yet I'd also post this way as a pr so who knows. Wifom. Of course as a town pr there would be more actual legit observation, but still posting in a more concise manner to let other townies be more obv town then me.

 

[ReedRGale]

Even if the argument is circular, it's still interesting and insightful to see how you think the game would be played under the assumption that you were town explaining how you could play mafia. I guess I'll try to watch your actions and apply the reasoning you supplied here as best I can though right now, I'm not quite sure I'm thinking straight. I should get some rest.

 

[Drez]

I sometimes ask people that. I do think a better way for yourself to see, is simply by reading my past games as mafia. Seeing my actual play, trumps whatever I have to say about my own meta (and anyone else has to say about their own meta). Here is a link: Mafia 1151 - Drez Mafia

 

[ReedRGale]

Damn that information overload. I still need to read those tips you provided. But in the morning. Sleep. For real.

 

[Drez]

Haha sorry. The mafia theory at the top of the page is not meant to be read in one sitting! Just something to read through the entirety of this game. I do it like that because I don't want to waste multiple posts doing theory when I can be playing the game. Everyone should read it, or make a note to read it through this game or even after this game.

 

[Boolerex]

The raison of why I didn't voted at the now replaced Platypudding is simply because I didn't thought of that. Thingyman did afterward though as did ReedRGale,so I found it not necessary to put more pressure in him. but now that Drax remplaced it. And that there is activity from anyone now. Well guess we can say that stuff is happening now.

As for xCoco,Well not much to say about her expect she just voted against me as part of the random voting at the start. So yeah can't really judge much,I'm gonna do some analysis about the another people afterward.

 

[African American]

test 1 2 3 why did my previous post get "checked by a moderator" and disappear?

edit

okay then...

votecount coming momentarily

 

[Rom-Steïn]

Anyway, we only are at the first day. Do you really think you can already figure out who is townie and who is mafia ?
I know I can't so I rely to luck...or probabilities.

The only thing that matters the first day is to not be lynched (so you ca continue to play aha), and you can start figuring out who people really are after the first Night and mafia killing (which will be likely to occur to the most speaking person in the thread).

So yeah, first Day, you doubt everyone, and after the first Night, you begin to doubt only those who are suspect, at least that's how I play it.

votecount coming momentarily

Suspense guys !

 

[Platypudding]

Sorry guys, had a whole bunch of stuff come up unexpectedly and ended up really busy. I'll be back next game!

 

[Thingyman]

Reed, I have seen you viewing. Thingy earlier too when I posted the questions to the newbies.

huh

the last time I looked at this thread your sub had been announced and I made a couple of posts

 

[Thingyman]

Thingy, I am curious. Why did you not post an RVS vote? Why were you not present during the early game?
Also, opinion on Boo? Thoughts on Coco voting Boo?

If I wasn't present, it was because I wasn't aware the game had started. As soon as I made aware of it, I popped in and made the post you're quoting, but at the time I was also about to go to bed. As for RVS vote, no idea, I just didn't.

Will look at Boo and CoCo in a bit.

 

[Thingyman]

What's up guys. Going to catch up and address multiple people in a bit. I would like to ask all the newbies this:

What is your experience with the game?
What is your schedule?

Have played about 100 games (not counting turbos). I'm busy, but I am checking in a few times a day.

The early game has been empty and that's a very bad thing for town. It gives scum the chance to lurk and hide, and the game has been pretty stagnant, so I think scum are pretty comfortable right now. Those without much opinions or even trying to do anything is who I would look at. Boolerex sticks out to me on mentioning my slot but not even voting. Seems like scum trying to seed doubt in town without actually stepping on any toes.

Vote: Boolerex

I also noticed Thingy looked at Platfipus after Boolerex mentioned him. I don't find it telling but I wonder why Thingy didn't do anything with his vote before.

Slaking1 is another candidate that I am concerned with. He isn't a priority since he seems to be confused about lynching toDay but that's it, so he is null-leaning scum, who has yet to do anything. I have a null on Reed, who also has just placed a vote on Platypuss willy nilly without doing much else.

I like Coco, Acorn, and Rom-stein.

And this gives me reason to ask: How experienced are you? The Boolerex read seems townie, but I feel like I'm not giving you enough credit in saying that.

Thingy is dangerous. I know from experience. Do not trust. Even as mafia last game when I tried bussing him (and believe me, I tried really hard) I couldn't crack a shell in his townie game. Sorry Thingy, but I am biased against you from our previous game in the fact that I will, at the very least, be watching your every move.

I know from last game that your meta is to appear as town as possible by pushing along the investigation of the town in a direction away from you. I'll admit, I even jumped on the bandwagon of Platy because the logic was sound. So basically, how would you play mafia knowing that some of these people here understand your playstyle?

I approve of the extra attention. I'll be watching you watching me ;)

Regarding how I would play as mafia... No idea. Boring, but truthful, answer.

 

[Thingyman]

##Vote: Boolerex

That should answer what my feelings are towards Boolerex.

Regarding xCoCo, I had a really, really, really easy time reading her as town in a game we played together on Mafia Universe and while I am not reading her as strongly town in this game at all (yet, anyway), I do still lean ever so slightly town on her. But it's super duper thin and in reality I should probably just call her a neutral read until I see more posts from her, since I'm unlikely to consider any of her posts thus far as alignment-telling once she's posted more.