Making a hypothetical balance patch and screwing with some kits

[Terret]

make hydra's walk speed faster please..

maybe… prob not tho

 

[a hot mess]

Hahaha April fools, right? Please tell me you’re joking. If not, ig I got a lot to explain

i'm dead serious. while its meta had an impact-
off topic, point is trizooka's a damn staple for casual and competitive players.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I’m not completely sure if that’s a balance thing because charger shots if I’m not mistaken are already parryable. I genuinely think that’s an issue with netcode

Then we should fix it. Nintendo fixed a lot of tent's netcode issue with the shield thickness buff. Maybe we could do a similar thing for chargers?

Increasing the duration of squidroll armor is the most obvious one (this would probably help a lot more than just chargers bc right now it doesn't feel like the armor does very much at all)

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

i'm dead serious. while its meta had an impact-
off topic, point is trizooka's a damn staple for casual and competitive players.

Yes, because it's significantly better than every other special except cooler

I'm not going to try to explain to you why this is undesirable.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Then we should fix it. Nintendo fixed a lot of tent's netcode issue with the shield thickness buff. Maybe we could do a similar thing for chargers?

Increasing the duration of squidroll armor is the most obvious one (this would probably help a lot more than just chargers bc right now it doesn't feel like the armor does very much at all)

Or maybe make the armor start sooner. Idk which side the problem is on.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I still haven't typed out what I think about chargers but I just thought of a thing that could singlehandedly make them feel so much more fair to fight.

make squid rolls work against them.

It wouldn't have the same problem ink armor did because you can't just walk up to a charger and be safe; you have to proactively squid roll and predict when they are going to shoot. This also gives the charger a chance to delay their shot if they see the squid roll, and shoot after the armor goes away.

Basically it makes there be mindgames on both sides, and makes the gameplay feel more interactive instead of just "don't peek the charger"

I think one-shot blasters should stay as they currently are though. Their shots are very predictable, and once they push the button they can't change when it comes out, unlike chargers. And blasters aren't the ones that need changed anyway.

I very much agree, but I think for consistency's sake Squid Armor should also block blaster shots. To compensate, we give blasters higher direct damage so they can combo off of direct carryover damage with their splash damage. Maybe 140 for vBlaster and Range, and 160 for Luna.

Parrying a charger shot only to die anyway is a very, very unsatisfying feeling. It's practically negative satisfaction.

 

[a hot mess]

rare moment of you being based

I very much agree, but I think for consistency's sake Squid Armor should also block blaster shots. To compensate, we give blasters higher direct damage so they can combo off of direct carryover damage with their splash damage. Maybe 140 for vBlaster and Range, and 160 for Luna.

Parrying a charger shot only to die anyway is a very, very unsatisfying feeling. It's practically negative satisfaction.

rare moment of you being actually based

 

[Terret]

Then we should fix it. Nintendo fixed a lot of tent's netcode issue with the shield thickness buff. Maybe we could do a similar thing for chargers?

Increasing the duration of squidroll armor is the most obvious one (this would probably help a lot more than just chargers bc right now it doesn't feel like the armor does very much at all)

I really don’t know how to do that, and even if I did, I currently can’t test it

 

[Terret]

i'm dead serious. while its meta had an impact-
off topic, point is trizooka's a damn staple for casual and competitive players.

Zooka, a staple? Okay, then what were the healthier and more fun ones before? What was Inkjet? What was Crab Tank? Because I’ll say this right now, this current meta will not be looked back on too fondly. Not to mention how much Zooka has done to the meta, and NOT good things. It took crab out of the meta, it flat out removed inkjet and to a slightly lesser extent Booyah from comp, and practically forced a zombie playstyle for the game because crab was the best answer to pencil and that isn’t really an option anymore. Due to this, there’s so much less in control and less and less people want to play the game anymore

 

[OnePotWonder]

Zooka, a staple? Okay, then what were the healthier and more fun ones before? What was Inkjet? What was Crab Tank? Because I’ll say this right now, this current meta will not be looked back on too fondly. Not to mention how much Zooka has done to the meta, and NOT good things. It took crab out of the meta, it flat out removed inkjet and to a slightly lesser extent Booyah from comp, and practically forced a zombie playstyle for the game because crab was the best answer to pencil and that isn’t really an option anymore. Due to this, there’s so much less in control and less and less people want to play the game anymore

If Crab, Inkjet, and Booyah were a game of “rock-paper-scissors”, Zooka would be “gun”.

 

[isaac4]

If they had nerfed the AoE hitbox of Zooka's shots instead of the damage I think the special would be in a much healthier place right now. It should still get a nerf to the initial startup but I don't want the two shots after to take longer as well.
The AoE hitbox being smaller with the startup sound having more time in between the first shot should be enough to make it weaker without making it feel worse to use.
Though, you could also nerf the velocity of the shots to give you more time to move out of the way.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Ah, right, one last thing for Zooka if you haven’t done it already is reduce the direct damage. Make it require two shots to kill a player with Spawn Armor, and make it parryable with Squid Roll.

I think it’s kind of dumb how Nintendo adds this cool new movement option that can parry attacks and then makes all of the special weapons deal 220 damage to invalidate it.

 

[isaac4]

Ah, right, one last thing for Zooka if you haven’t done it already is reduce the direct damage. Make it require two shots to kill a player with Spawn Armor, and make it parryable with Squid Roll.

I think it’s kind of dumb how Nintendo adds this cool new movement option that can parry attacks and then makes all of the special weapons deal 220 damage to invalidate it.

What's your thoughts on them making it not possible to parry Reefslider? I think Vac is fine since the explosion travels so slowly, it's not very hard to move out of the way unless you're already in a fight and don't see it.

 

[OnePotWonder]

What's your thoughts on them making it not possible to parry Reefslider? I think Vac is fine since the explosion travels so slowly, it's not very hard to move out of the way unless you're already in a fight and don't see it.

Preferably, the only thing I’d like to see splat through armour is the Vac projectile, but at this point it doesn’t make much sense to nerf the damage of Vac or Slider, both need more buffs first.

 

[a hot mess]

Zooka, a staple? Okay, then what were the healthier and more fun ones before? What was Inkjet? What was Crab Tank? Because I’ll say this right now, this current meta will not be looked back on too fondly. Not to mention how much Zooka has done to the meta, and NOT good things. It took crab out of the meta, it flat out removed inkjet and to a slightly lesser extent Booyah from comp, and practically forced a zombie playstyle for the game because crab was the best answer to pencil and that isn’t really an option anymore. Due to this, there’s so much less in control and less and less people want to play the game anymore

i've ALWAYS hated crab. that needed to be out of the meta. zooka is love and zooka is life. inkjet had no damn presence and never will. its shots are too damn small and it can easily be shot down like the pathetic flying sprinkler it is.

 

[Terret]

i've ALWAYS hated crab. that needed to be out of the meta. zooka is love and zooka is life. inkjet had no damn presence and never will. its shots are too damn small and it can easily be shot down like the pathetic flying sprinkler it is.

I want to argue but you suddenly gave me justification to buff inkjet, thank you! :)

 

[isaac4]

i've ALWAYS hated crab. that needed to be out of the meta. zooka is love and zooka is life. inkjet had no damn presence and never will. its shots are too damn small and it can easily be shot down like the pathetic flying sprinkler it is.

This has to be a joke, right? Hard to tell with you a lot of the time ngl

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Ah, right, one last thing for Zooka if you haven’t done it already is reduce the direct damage. Make it require two shots to kill a player with Spawn Armor, and make it parryable with Squid Roll.

I think it’s kind of dumb how Nintendo adds this cool new movement option that can parry attacks and then makes all of the special weapons deal 220 damage to invalidate it.

We discussed this before so I'm just going to quote the old conversation.

Squid rolling a zooka feels silly to me. Vac and slider got buffed so you couldn't squid roll them, and it made using the special feel so much better because your giant death explosion was actually a giant death explosion. Giving every shot more startup makes it harder to react using a zooka, and that plus something like a 5% velocity nerf should make it feel more fair to fight without having to make it squidroll-able.

There is a significant difference between slider and Vac in that regard in that both of them are painfully predictable and slow. I see your point because both of them have gigantic radii though. That said, parrying a 180 is still not like you get off scott free, it's still a ton of damage that can be capitalized upon by any kind of long range or AOE.

Yes, but one of the coolest things about zooka is how powerful it feels. It's just really satisfying to hit shots with it. If you successfully hit a zooka shot and they just squid rolled it, that's like... the opposite of satisfying. So even though this would be fine balance wise, that's not the only thing that we're trying to do. That's why I was suggesting other nerfs that would make it feel more fair to fight without making it feel unfair for the person using the zooka.

Basically it would feel unfair for the zooka user if they aimed the shot well and the opponent just armored through it. Same for reefslider.

This isn't an "it's already decided so go away" kind of thing, I just didn't feel like typing it out again

 

[OnePotWonder]

We discussed this before so I'm just going to quote the old conversation.







Basically it would feel unfair for the zooka user if they aimed the shot well and the opponent just armored through it. Same for reefslider.

This isn't an "it's already decided so go away" kind of thing, I just didn't feel like typing it out again

This is kind of the big problem I have with attacks that pierce armor; yes, they should be able to pierce Squid Roll armor, but they really should not be able to pierce spawn armor. I've seen a lot of clips of people spawn camping with Zooka, and it's just cheap and not okay. I'd argue there's no valid reason for damage dealt to spawn armor to carry over at all.

So, that's a change I'd be happy with, but I think Terret said that they haven't figured out how to manipulate armor, and even then it's a little awkward to interject into a bunch of weapon changes.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I wouldn't be opposed to stronger spawn armor if we can figure out how to change it.

I think it would make more sense to still carry over some damage, otherwise you could just walk through a splat bomb unharmed which is kind of stupid. But maybe put a cap on it like S2 ink armor, so you can't take more than 60 damage or something.