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Screwing with kits as well

Terret

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I'd help with this / give suggestions but you keep so much hidden :(
I can only see the 24 kits you posted until I figure out how to mod my switch
Fair point. I apologize for that. Here’s almost all the kits I adjusted

Fair. I need a second to get all the images though. Here’s what I got
I want to send a video file but it won’t let me for some reason
 

Terret

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I'd help with this / give suggestions but you keep so much hidden :(
I can only see the 24 kits you posted until I figure out how to mod my switch
Current kits with some things outdated (like Blaster getting zooka and Clash getting bubble and Order brush not having jet):
 

youre_a_squib_now

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Every weapon, organized by ID:
subspecialnew subnew special
splooshcurlingstampcurlingstamp
neo splooshbeakonwailsplatjet
vjrsplatbubblesplatbubble
cjrtorpwavetorpstorm
splashburstcrabburstcrab
neo splashsuctionstrikesmistzip
silver aerofizzysliderfizzyslider
gold aerosprinklerbooyahsprinklerbooyah
shotsuctionzookaburstTSD
tteksplatstrikessplatstrikes
.52wallwailwallwail
.52 decocurlingscreencurlingTSD
zap '85suctioncoolersprinklerkraken
zap '89chickenchumpschickenchumps
prodartcrabdartcrab
forgesuctionbooyahsuctionbooyah
.96sprinklervacsensorzooka
.96 decowallkrakenwallkraken
vjetdartvacburstkraken
cjetmiststormmiststrikes
novasensorwailburstvac
annakiminejetmistscreen
lunasplatzipsplatzip
luna neofizzystampfizzystamp
blasterchickenbubblechickenzooka
custom blastersensorTSDsensorTSD
rangesuctionwavesuctionzip
clashsplatzookasplatbubble
clash neocurlingchumpssensorscreen
rapidminestrikesmistvac
rapid decotorpjettorpjet
rapid promistvacminechumps
rapid pro decodartwaildartwail
s-blast '92sprinklersliderfizzyslider
s-blast '91burstbooyahburstbooyah
l-3curlingcrabcurlingrain
l-3 dburststampburststamp
h-3sensorcoolersensorcooler
h-3 dwallbubblewallbubble
squeezerwallzookaminechumps
foil squeezerchickenscreenchickenscreen
carbonchickenziptorpzip
carbon decoburstzookaburstzooka
rollercurlingbubblecurlingbubble
krak-onbeakonkrakentorpchumps
dynamosprinklercoolersprinklercooler
gold dynamosplatchumpssplatbooyah
flingzaminemissilesminecrab
foil flingzasuctionscreensuctionscreen
swigwallvacdartslider
swig expressdartstormtorpstorm
inkbrushsplatwailsplatwail
inkbrush nouveauminestampminestamp
octobrushsuctionzipsuctionjet
octobrush nouveaubeakonstormbeakonkraken
painbrushcurlingwavecurlingwave
painbrush nouveausensormissilessensormissiles
squiffersensorbubblesuctionwave
new squifferchickenzipchickenzip
chargersplatvacsplatvac
z+f chargerwallstrikeswallstrikes
literminewaveminebooyah
c-literbeakonkrakenbeakonzooka
bamboochickenwailchickenwail
goobertorpmissilestorpmissiles
cgoofizzystampfizzyjet
pencilsprinklercoolersprinklercooler
red pencilwallstormtorpkraken
sloshersplatstrikessuctionstrikes
slosher decodartzipburstTSD
trimistjetburstchumps
tri nouveaufizzycoolerfizzywave
machinefizzybooyahfizzybooyah
machine neosensorzookachickenwail
blobsprinklerstormwallscreen
blob decodartkrakendartvac
explosensorstormmistmissiles
custom explowallTSDwallcrab
dreadsuctionslidertorpslider
dread dbeakonwavesuctioncooler
miniburststampburststamp
zimimistbubblemistcooler
heavysprinklerwavesprinklerwave
heavy decosensorkrakensensorkraken
hydrachickenbooyahminebubble
ballpointfizzyjetfizzyjet
ballpoint nouveauminevacbeakonstorm
nautsensorstormsensorstorm
gold nautsuctionTSDsuctioncrab
editcurlingcoolercurlingmissiles
dapplesbeakoncoolersuctionmissiles
ndapplestorpslidertorpslider
dualiessuctioncrabsuctioncrab
enperriescurlingTSDcurlingjet
gloogaswallbooyahwallbooyah
gloogas decosensorzookafizzystamp
squelcherssplatwavesplatwave
custom squelchersbeakonchumpsbeakonchumps
tetraschickensliderchickenTSD
light tetrassprinklerzipdartzip
dousersminewailminewail
brellasprinklerstrikessprinklerstorm
sorella brellachickenjetchickenjet
tentbeakonvacbeakonvac
sorella tentminezookaminezooka
undercovermineslidersplatcrab
sundertorpscreentorpcooler
cycledartbubbledartbubble
bowmistwailmistwail
inkline bowsprinklerchumpsfizzystrikes
fluxcurlingmissilescurlingmissiles
flux decowallslidertorpzip
stamperburstzipburstzip
stamper nouveaumistcrabfizzystorm
wipertorpstamptorpstamp
wiper decobeakonmissilesbeakonmissiles
(updated to include the missing ones)
 
Last edited:

youre_a_squib_now

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I think I figured it out. Or at least, I figured out how we can figure it out.
We can make a table of how well each sub would synergize with each main, and make another table for how well each special would synergize with each main. Then it would be clear what subs would be best for each main, and what mains would be best for each sub. Obviously these aren't the only important factors (we're creating entire kits, not just subs and specials, plus balance, plus favoring current kits, etc) but I think it would be very helpful.

Once I figure out how to run the mod on my switch that's probably what I'll work on
 

Terret

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I think I figured it out. Or at least, I figured out how we can figure it out.
We can make a table of how well each sub would synergize with each main, and make another table for how well each special would synergize with each main. Then it would be clear what subs would be best for each main, and what mains would be best for each sub. Obviously these aren't the only important factors (we're creating entire kits, not just subs and specials, plus balance, plus favoring current kits, etc) but I think it would be very helpful.

Once I figure out how to run the mod on my switch that's probably what I'll work on
Sounds good. I initially gave naut crab but I’m starting to lean towards giving naut jet and BP crab instead. And there are a lot of other changes I’m starting to consider as well for kits
 

youre_a_squib_now

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Every weapon, organized by ID:
subspecialnew subnew special
splooshcurlingstampcurlingstamp
neo splooshbeakonwailsplatjet
vjrsplatbubblesplatbubble
cjrtorpwavetorpstorm
splashburstcrabburstcrab
neo splashsuctionstrikesmistzip
silver aerofizzysliderfizzyslider
gold aerosprinklerbooyah??????
shotsuctionzookaburstTSD
tteksplatstrikessplatstrikes
.52wallwailwallwail
.52 decocurlingscreen??????
zap '85suctioncoolersprinklerkraken
zap '89chickenchumpschickenchumps
prodartcrabdartcrab
forgesuctionbooyahsuctionbooyah
.96sprinklervacsensorzooka
.96 decowallkrakenwallkraken
vjetdartvacburstkraken
cjetmiststormmiststrikes
novasensorwailburstvac
annakiminejetmistscreen
lunasplatzipsplatzip
luna neofizzystampfizzystamp
blasterchickenbubblechickenzooka
custom blastersensorTSD??????
rangesuctionwavesuctionzip
clashsplatzookasplatbubble
clash neocurlingchumps??????
rapidminestrikesmistvac
rapid decotorpjettorpjet
rapid promistvacminechumps
rapid pro decodartwaildartwail
s-blast '92sprinklersliderfizzyslider
s-blast '91burstbooyahburstbooyah
l-3curlingcrab??????
l-3 dburststampburststamp
h-3sensorcoolersensorcooler
h-3 dwallbubblewallbubble
squeezerwallzooka??????
foil squeezerchickenscreenchickenscreen
carbonchickenziptorpzip
carbon decoburstzookaburstzooka
rollercurlingbubblecurlingbubble
krak-onbeakonkrakentorpchumps
dynamosprinklercoolersprinklercooler
gold dynamosplatchumpssplatbooyah
flingzaminemissilesminecrab
foil flingzasuctionscreen??????
swigwallvacdartslider
swig expressdartstormtorpstorm
inkbrushsplatwailsplatwail
inkbrush nouveauminestampminestamp
octobrushsuctionzipsuctionjet
octobrush nouveaubeakonstormbeakonkraken
painbrushcurlingwavecurlingwave
painbrush nouveausensormissiles??????
squiffersensorbubblesuctionwave
new squifferchickenzipchickenzip
chargersplatvacsplatvac
z+f chargerwallstrikeswallstrikes
literminewaveminebooyah
c-literbeakonkrakenbeakonzooka
bamboochickenwailchickenwail
goobertorpmissilestorpmissiles
cgoofizzystamp??????
pencilsprinklercoolersprinklercooler
red pencilwallstormtorpkraken
sloshersplatstrikessuctionstrikes
slosher decodartzipburstTSD
trimistjetburstchumps
tri nouveaufizzycoolerfizzywave
machinefizzybooyahfizzybooyah
machine neosensorzooka??????
blobsprinklerstormwallscreen
blob decodartkrakendartvac
explosensorstormmistmissiles
custom explowallTSDwallcrab
dreadsuctionslidertorpslider
dread dbeakonwavesuctioncooler
miniburststampburststamp
zimimistbubblemistcooler
heavysprinklerwavesprinklerwave
heavy decosensorkrakensensorkraken
hydrachickenbooyahminebubble
ballpointfizzyjetfizzyjet
ballpoint nouveauminevacbeakonstorm
nautsensorstormsensorstorm
gold nautsuctionTSDsuctioncrab
editcurlingcoolercurlingmissiles
dapplesbeakoncoolersuctionmissiles
ndapplestorpslidertorpslider
dualiessuctioncrabsuctioncrab
enperriescurlingTSDcurlingjet
gloogaswallbooyahwallbooyah
gloogas decosensorzooka??????
squelcherssplatwavesplatwave
custom squelchersbeakonchumpsbeakonchumps
tetraschickensliderchickenTSD
light tetrassprinklerzipdartzip
dousersminewailminewail
brellasprinklerstrikessprinklerstorm
sorella brellachickenjetchickenjet
tentbeakonvacbeakonvac
sorella tentminezookaminezooka
undercovermineslidersplatcrab
sundertorpscreentorpcooler
cycledartbubbledartbubble
bowmistwailmistwail
inkline bowsprinklerchumpsfizzystrikes
fluxcurlingmissilescurlingmissiles
flux decowallslidertorpzip
stamperburstzipburstzip
stamper nouveaumistcrabfizzystorm
wipertorpstamptorpstamp
wiper decobeakonmissiles??????
Can you clarify the kits for the weapons that didn't show up in the video?
this would be gold aerospray, .52 deco, custom blaster, clash neo, l-3, squeezer, foil flingza, painbrush 2, custom goober, machine neo, gloogas deco, and wiper deco
Typing this out made me realize there's more than I thought.
Anyway, I (finally) got a rcm jig that works consistently, so I'll be able to start analyzing kits soon.
 

youre_a_squib_now

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torp L-3 D would be insanely cool with the damage buff
Then H-3 can get burst cooler
 

isaac4

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You might have already explained this in the thread before but what's the reason for giving Suction Bomb to vSlosher? I don't think it's a bad choice since I rather have Splat Bomb for a 3rd kit with a different special but I would have thought that you just replace the special instead so it's not dealing with being the weaker Tri-Strike option with Ttek in the game.
 

Terret

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You might have already explained this in the thread before but what's the reason for giving Suction Bomb to vSlosher? I don't think it's a bad choice since I rather have Splat Bomb for a 3rd kit with a different special but I would have thought that you just replace the special instead so it's not dealing with being the weaker Tri-Strike option with Ttek in the game.
Funnily enough, slosher is REALLY strong right now, to the point of beating out most other AOE options and midlines. I gave Suction to slow down its pacing a little bit while still giving it the utility of a bomb
 

isaac4

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Funnily enough, slosher is REALLY strong right now, to the point of beating out most other AOE options and midlines. I gave Suction to slow down its pacing a little bit while still giving it the utility of a bomb
I get that but isn't that mainly because it can keep up with cooler meta compared to other midlines? I know it's definitely being used a lot over other options (rip Machine) but I think giving it something like Killer Wail 5.1 would keep it from being too strong while still having it focus on fighting.
 

isaac4

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That would probably make dealing with Slosher more annoying now that I'm thinking about it lol, but strikes is definitely the better special out of the two.
 

OnePotWonder

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I would argue vSlosher’s kit is perfect; a high synergy bomb and a decent special that only works fine on it.
I agree that if you’re going to give it Suction Bomb, it should get a slightly better special synergy-wise like Ink Storm.
 

isaac4

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I would argue vSlosher’s kit is perfect; a high synergy bomb and a decent special that only works fine on it.
I agree that if you’re going to give it Suction Bomb, it should get a slightly better special synergy-wise like Ink Storm.
Splat2 vSlosher kit could return but I doubt the idea of having Missiles on it again would be something people want.
I just think Ttek having the same kit with less pfs makes Sloshers kit feel very boring and then they repeated the same thing with Neo Splash (why didn't they give it Zip).
 

Terret

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Can you clarify the kits for the weapons that didn't show up in the video?
this would be gold aerospray, .52 deco, custom blaster, clash neo, l-3, squeezer, foil flingza, painbrush 2, custom goober, machine neo, gloogas deco, and wiper deco
Typing this out made me realize there's more than I thought.
Anyway, I (finally) got a rcm jig that works consistently, so I'll be able to start analyzing kits soon.
Gold Aerospray is the same, .52 deco has TSD, Cblast is the same, Clash Neo is sensor screen, foil Flingza is the same, L-3 has curling rain if I’m not mistaken, custom goo has fizzy jet, Neo machine has auto wail, pain nouveau is the same, gleco has fizzy stamp, Diper is the same
 

youre_a_squib_now

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I know I made the riimoved joke, but I've been thinking about this for a while and it makes a lot of sense to me.

I think sprinkler and tents missiles should be on 0 kits.

Tenta missiles I probably don't need to explain too much. It's as close to objectively bad design as we have in this game, and it shouldn't be good. And the game is better off if the special is bad, there really is no reason for it to exist in the first place.

But if you look into the reasons why missiles are disliked (aside from it being broken) a lot of them also apply to sprinkler. Especially how they both encourage passive gameplay and special spam. Also, sprinkler doesn't really do anything except paint, and it can't paint in relevant areas because it can be shot down. As a result of this lack of utility, no weapon really wants to have it. And if no weapons want the sub, why should we put it on them?

For both missiles and sprinkler, the flaws with them are fundamental aspects of the sub/special that can't really be changed with reworks. Putting sprinklers in relevant locations will never work unless it can't be destroyed, and that would make it broken, so it can't really do anything except farm special. Missiles can be changed to be less bad, but the entire premise of the special is just... not great. Removing these would also help with being able to put the other subs and specials on more things.
 

youre_a_squib_now

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Gold Aerospray is the same, .52 deco has TSD, Cblast is the same, Clash Neo is sensor screen, foil Flingza is the same, L-3 has curling rain if I’m not mistaken, custom goo has fizzy jet, Neo machine has auto wail, pain nouveau is the same, gleco has fizzy stamp, Diper is the same
and squeezer, i missed that one
 

Terret

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I know I made the riimoved joke, but I've been thinking about this for a while and it makes a lot of sense to me.

I think sprinkler and tents missiles should be on 0 kits.

Tenta missiles I probably don't need to explain too much. It's as close to objectively bad design as we have in this game, and it shouldn't be good. And the game is better off if the special is bad, there really is no reason for it to exist in the first place.

But if you look into the reasons why missiles are disliked (aside from it being broken) a lot of them also apply to sprinkler. Especially how they both encourage passive gameplay and special spam. Also, sprinkler doesn't really do anything except paint, and it can't paint in relevant areas because it can be shot down. As a result of this lack of utility, no weapon really wants to have it. And if no weapons want the sub, why should we put it on them?

For both missiles and sprinkler, the flaws with them are fundamental aspects of the sub/special that can't really be changed with reworks. Putting sprinklers in relevant locations will never work unless it can't be destroyed, and that would make it broken, so it can't really do anything except farm special. Missiles can be changed to be less bad, but the entire premise of the special is just... not great. Removing these would also help with being able to put the other subs and specials on more things.
About both of them, fair point. I guess I’ll start with talking about Sprinkler since that’s easier to explain. Sprinkler DOES have a job it can fill, and sprinkler fundamentally is not a terrible idea. If it couldn’t stick anywhere and didn’t have weapons it works better with than bombs, I’d understand. It can be argued it partially caused Pencil to be a problem which while that isn’t wrong, also is a strong sub for heavy due to good points it can be thrown at, and if bow was a better main weapon, I don’t think it’d mind it either. As for relevant spots, while it seems like there are none, there are a good amount of spots where you can get a LOT of passive paint and while they can be shot down, they can be HARD to reach. In short, there are weapons that do like it and the cheaper cost would save it from being hard outclassed if fizzy costs 65. I do plan to buff it though since it was balanced fine before decay was introduced. Probably going to try to reverse the order of the firing modes if I ever figure that out.

As for missiles, I have a hot take, that being that wail is more problematic and more infuriating. I can promise you missiles are not going to break the game due to the spam ability and radius nerfs. And while they’re horrible for counterplay, they are not as horrible to use as wail is, and don’t threaten positions as much. That’s exactly why I made missiles shoot less as it targets more people, to incentivize using it closer compared to how it is usually used.
 

youre_a_squib_now

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About both of them, fair point. I guess I’ll start with talking about Sprinkler since that’s easier to explain. Sprinkler DOES have a job it can fill, and sprinkler fundamentally is not a terrible idea. If it couldn’t stick anywhere and didn’t have weapons it works better with than bombs, I’d understand. It can be argued it partially caused Pencil to be a problem which while that isn’t wrong, also is a strong sub for heavy due to good points it can be thrown at, and if bow was a better main weapon, I don’t think it’d mind it either. As for relevant spots, while it seems like there are none, there are a good amount of spots where you can get a LOT of passive paint and while they can be shot down, they can be HARD to reach. In short, there are weapons that do like it and the cheaper cost would save it from being hard outclassed if fizzy costs 65. I do plan to buff it though since it was balanced fine before decay was introduced.
Still not entirely convinced but we'll see I guess.

Probably going to try to reverse the order of the firing modes if I ever figure that out.
This sounds like it would be a pain to deal with for shorter range weapons. Maybe just swap modes 1 and 2?

As for missiles, I have a hot take, that being that wail is more problematic and more infuriating. I can promise you missiles are not going to break the game due to the spam ability and radius nerfs.
It feels like you're arguing that missiles won't be a problem because they're bad. If they need to be bad then why are they here at all?

I'm pretty sure most players never want to see a meta that includes missiles again. So let's just remove it.

And while they’re horrible for counterplay, they are not as horrible to use as wail is, and don’t threaten positions as much. That’s exactly why I made missiles shoot less as it targets more people, to incentivize using it closer compared to how it is usually used.
Wail works best when the main weapon is fighting with it, but it can be annoying to dodge as a slower weapon, especially after the damage buff. The core design is much, much better than missiles though, even if it's still flawed and global range isn't great.

I think a slight hitbox nerf would make it feel more fair to dodge, and making it do less damage at longer ranges (like a real speaker lol) would probably help against it being used like missiles to simply displace people.
 

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