Making a hypothetical balance patch and screwing with some kits

[Terret]

I don't think the Goo Tuber needs to be split into separate weapons, I just think it needs to be changed from a middleweight to a lightweight weapon. It's considered trash by most of the competitive community for a charger and to make it better it should be the same weight roughly as a Squiffer or Bamboozler. The mobility it would gain would actually help it, and being able to hold a charge over three times as long as other chargers would actually mean something. Being lighter would help its swim speed and it would actually be able to better do its intended purpose, which is stealth.

Change from middleweight to lightweight definitely won’t be enough but thinking about it, Goo would reap the benefits much more than any other chargers so I’m very much in favor of the change.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, because this is exactly the kind of buff it needs. Goober is the charge hold weapon, and this is an actual impactful, relevant buff to the charge hold. I agree that this wouldn't be enough though, but I won't go into how else I would buff it because I'm still saving my charger thoughts for later. I'll get to it eventually. I hope.

 

[McSquid82]

I actually think the Goo is only a few buffs a weapon from being at least a mid tier charger. It has a ton of good properties unique to it that no other chargers have. First and most obvious is the really long charge hold, but on top of that it can splat at half charge and also store partial charges. That's why even if a weight class change would only be the first step, it could really help this weapon.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I actually think the Goo is only a few buffs a weapon from being at least a mid tier charger. It has a ton of good properties unique to it that no other chargers have. First and most obvious is the really long charge hold, but on top of that it can splat at half charge and also store partial charges. That's why even if a weight class change would only be the first step, it could really help this weapon.

I think you overestimate the weapon’s potential, but you’re not wrong that most people underestimate it.
Another good buff for it would be making it actually splat with half of a charge. It takes about 70% charge right now.

 

[McSquid82]

I didn't know that. Still, it's the only charger that can splat with any sort of partial charge, and what's more it can store it. No other charger can do that now with the removal of Damage Up and MPU. That's why I said it at least has the potential to be mid tier with some buffs. It has a niche right now and the developers just need to work on making it better at it.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

It has a niche right now and the developers just need to work on making it better at it.

What niche is that?
It has unique strengths, sure, but as far as I can tell, those strengths never really have a use that justifies it even being a niche pick.

 

[Terret]

I think you overestimate the weapon’s potential, but you’re not wrong that most people underestimate it.
Another good buff for it would be making it actually splat with half of a charge. It takes about 70% charge right now.

Half a charge might be a little too much since that’s less than 40 frames charge time which is kinda ridiculous. I have it at 46 frames for lethal rn.

 

[McSquid82]

What niche is that?
It has unique strengths, sure, but as far as I can tell, those strengths never really have a use that justifies it even being a niche pick.

Its niche is exactly how it's designed. It can hold a charge four times as long as other chargers, it can splat at less than a full charge, which is something no other charger can do, and it can store partial charges. That's the whole point I've been making these last few points. A buff changing its weight from middleweight to lightweight along with some other stuff it needs to finally break out of the bottom tier of chargers. In short, regardless of how it's perceived in the meta facts are facts. The Goo Tuber can do three things that no other charger can, and THAT is its niche. All it needs now are just a few more buffs and it could be a solid charger.

 

[Terret]

Its niche is exactly how it's designed. It can hold a charge four times as long as other chargers, it can splat at less than a full charge, which is something no other charger can do, and it can store partial charges. That's the whole point I've been making these last few points. A buff changing its weight from middleweight to lightweight along with some other stuff it needs to finally break out of the bottom tier of chargers. In short, regardless of how it's perceived in the meta facts are facts. The Goo Tuber can do three things that no other charger can, and THAT is its niche. All it needs now are just a few more buffs and it could be a solid charger.

That’s not necessarily a niche, rather a unique identity. Buffs like that could LEAD it to being a very interesting niche though and I’m all for it

 

[McSquid82]

That’s not necessarily a niche, rather a unique identity. Buffs like that could LEAD it to being a very interesting niche though and I’m all for it

Thank you, that's the whole point I've been trying to make, even if I didn't know quite how to phrase it. I guess what I've been trying to say is that with the right buffs, the Goo Tuber has the potential to be an extremely good charger. The foundation is there, the developers just need to build on it so it can take advantage of its unique identity as you put it.

 

[RubberCF]

Ive got a pretty in depth ability update im gonna post in its own thread soon, so feel free to take inspiration from that if you want.

 

[Terret]

Ive got a pretty in depth ability update im gonna post in its own thread soon, so feel free to take inspiration from that if you want.

I love hearing what other people’s ideas are. Please ping me when you make the thread

 

[OnePotWonder]

Hey @Terret could you do me a favor and try to increase Splat Bomb's detonation time? Thank you very much I will be eternally grateful.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Hey @Terret could you do me a favor and try to increase Splat Bomb's detonation time? Thank you very much I will be eternally grateful.

I don't think this would be a great change. It would take away from a lot of the flexibility that splat bomb provides for a lot of weapons. The one shot radius was already nerfed at the start of S3 and I don't think it's an issue anymore. The part that I do think is an issue is the 30 damage radius. Especially for slower weapons, it can be almost impossible to get out of the way in time, leading to stuff like slosher having way too consistent combos with it, and also, dying to a bunch of indirects is always annoying and doesn't have a whole lot of counterplay. I think changing the 30 damage radius from 70 units (it is 70, right?) to 65 or even 60 would be a more helpful change.

 

[Terret]

I don't think this would be a great change. It would take away from a lot of the flexibility that splat bomb provides for a lot of weapons. The one shot radius was already nerfed at the start of S3 and I don't think it's an issue anymore. The part that I do think is an issue is the 30 damage radius. Especially for slower weapons, it can be almost impossible to get out of the way in time, leading to stuff like slosher having way too consistent combos with it, and also, dying to a bunch of indirects is always annoying and doesn't have a whole lot of counterplay. I think changing the 30 damage radius from 70 units (it is 70, right?) to 65 or even 60 would be a more helpful change.

I was going to say the set off time is the healthiest thing about Splat Bomb. Unit nerfs maybe but thinking back, it might not even need that in the current stage

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I was going to say the set off time is the healthiest thing about Splat Bomb. Unit nerfs maybe but thinking back, it might not even need that in the current stage

Splat bomb is actually a really strong sub, it's just held back by not being on very many good kits. We're giving it a lot of good kits, plus buffing a lot of its bad kits. So that won't be there to hold it back anymore.

Also, think about the purpose of the splat bomb. It's meant to be a quick get-off-me tool, escape route remover, and/or long distance poking. The one-shot radius is necessary and helpful for all of these, but the 30 damage radius not so much. Splat bomb combos shouldn't be this consistent; that's not why the sub is there. It definitely makes sense that the 30 damage radius is there, but at its current size it is both the part that people find the most annoying and the part that is least necessary for the sub to function properly.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Splat bomb is actually a really strong sub, it's just held back by not being on very many good kits. We're giving it a lot of good kits, plus buffing a lot of its bad kits. So that won't be there to hold it back anymore.

Also, think about the purpose of the splat bomb. It's meant to be a quick get-off-me tool, escape route remover, and/or long distance poking. The one-shot radius is necessary and helpful for all of these, but the 30 damage radius not so much. Splat bomb combos shouldn't be this consistent; that's not why the sub is there. It definitely makes sense that the 30 damage radius is there, but at its current size it is both the part that people find the most annoying and the part that is least necessary for the sub to function properly.

The purpose of Splat Bomb is very plainly stated in the name. It's designed to splat people. I don't like that about the sub.
See, everything you listed is fine, it being a way to remove an escape route, serve as a get-off-me tool, even have its 30 damage combos.
The issue is that you can also just roll it at someone and if they don't get out of its close radius in half a second they instantly die.

I think we might be getting into personal peeve territory, but I've already come this far, so why not?
I don't think any bombs should do lethal damage. I think they should all cap out at 70 damage, except maybe Suction Bomb.
Lethal bombs' one-shot potential is not only extremely annoying and disproportionately effective against slower weapons like Dynamo and Explosher, it's also completely unjustified. Without lethal damage, bombs would still be better than most utility subs, and far fewer buffs would be needed to make options like Curling Bomb or Toxic Mist viable in comp play. Making all bombs non-lethal would be nothing but healthy for the game, not just encouraging that players follow up on their bombs to get splats, but requiring it.

Following up on this, I feel like it's fair to also nerf Fizzy Bomb's damage to 45 direct and 30 indirect, and increase the ink consumption of Burst Bomb and Torpedo by 5% each. It'd be silly to nerf all the lethal bombs and then just leave the non-lethals sitting at the top of the tier lists unchanged.
Also, to make things fair for bombs in light of this upheaval, remove Sub Defense Up outright.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
I do not expect you to take this too seriously, but this is pretty much my dream future for the game.

 

[RubberCF]

I love hearing what other people’s ideas are. Please ping me when you make the thread

Making an ability only balance patch (updated, read comments to see changes)

I'm a big gear nerd and have spent too many hours making this update, so I appreciate anyone who would like to read it. I am happy to explain anything, feedback is welcome. The purpose of this patch is primarily to give players more effective options in how they want to design their gear, but...

squidboards.com

Here ya go

 

[Terret]

The purpose of Splat Bomb is very plainly stated in the name. It's designed to splat people. I don't like that about the sub.
See, everything you listed is fine, it being a way to remove an escape route, serve as a get-off-me tool, even have its 30 damage combos.
The issue is that you can also just roll it at someone and if they don't get out of its close radius in half a second they instantly die.

I think we might be getting into personal peeve territory, but I've already come this far, so why not?
I don't think any bombs should do lethal damage. I think they should all cap out at 70 damage, except maybe Suction Bomb.
Lethal bombs' one-shot potential is not only extremely annoying and disproportionately effective against slower weapons like Dynamo and Explosher, it's also completely unjustified. Without lethal damage, bombs would still be better than most utility subs, and far fewer buffs would be needed to make options like Curling Bomb or Toxic Mist viable in comp play. Making all bombs non-lethal would be nothing but healthy for the game, not just encouraging that players follow up on their bombs to get splats, but requiring it.

Following up on this, I feel like it's fair to also nerf Fizzy Bomb's damage to 45 direct and 30 indirect, and increase the ink consumption of Burst Bomb and Torpedo by 5% each. It'd be silly to nerf all the lethal bombs and then just leave the non-lethals sitting at the top of the tier lists unchanged.
Also, to make things fair for bombs in light of this upheaval, remove Sub Defense Up outright.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
I do not expect you to take this too seriously, but this is pretty much my dream future for the game.

Hard objection to the lethal bombs not being lethal. Rolling it is actually imo a really cool part of the sub, and I should mention there are two massive issues from removing lethal radius. First off, nothing can reasonably poke anymore to be worth 70% of the ink tank which removes a LOT of the threat of weapons that NEED it to retake. Secondly, with the much smaller damage values, wall becomes busted af until I find the damage multipliers. And I’ll argue wall will be more problematic than splat bomb

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

The purpose of Splat Bomb is very plainly stated in the name. It's designed to splat people.

It feels like this is the basis of your entire argument, but... no, not really. It's designed to move people. Maybe against dynamo or something it could be unfair, but other than that, even slower weapons can squid roll the bomb.

The purpose of Splat Bomb is very plainly stated in the name. It's designed to splat people. I don't like that about the sub.
See, everything you listed is fine, it being a way to remove an escape route, serve as a get-off-me tool, even have its 30 damage combos.
The issue is that you can also just roll it at someone and if they don't get out of its close radius in half a second they instantly die.

It's a full second, not half of one, and making them leave the radius quickly is the whole point. There's also another point I'll get to later.

I personally have jumped into a splat bomb too many times with a squiffer, but a longer explosion time wouldn't fix that.

I think we might be getting into personal peeve territory, but I've already come this far, so why not?
I don't think any bombs should do lethal damage. I think they should all cap out at 70 damage, except maybe Suction Bomb.
Lethal bombs' one-shot potential is not only extremely annoying and disproportionately effective against slower weapons like Dynamo and Explosher, it's also completely unjustified.

The thing about slower weapons is that you usually can't roll the splat bomb straight at them. With the exception of dynamo, they all like playing from further back and usually from high ground, so they have the whole time while the splat bomb is traveling through the air plus another second to move out of the way. As an e-liter, splat bombs by themselves rarely do anything more than take my laser off the map for a second or two, which is completely fair for 70% of the ink tank. If I could just tank a splat bomb to the face, I would get to not care, and that takes away a whole lot of the utility of splat bomb.

Without lethal damage, bombs would still be better than most utility subs, and far fewer buffs would be needed to make options like Curling Bomb or Toxic Mist viable in comp play. Making all bombs non-lethal would be nothing but healthy for the game, not just encouraging that players follow up on their bombs to get splats, but requiring it.

I highly doubt they would still be as good as you think, because they already require follow-up. Faster weapons that play from closer ranges can move out of the way or squid roll the bomb pretty easily, but it stops their ability to move forward and leaves them more vulnerable to the opponent who threw the bomb, and slower weapons that play from further back get more time to react, while still being forced to have less of an impact on the game temporarily. That's what makes it so well designed. As I've mentioned before, really the only major exception to this is dynamo, which is the slowest weapon in the game but still plays from relatively far forward.

Plus, this change would actually make slower weapons even more worse than faster weapons against splat bomb, because the faster weapons could just tank the 70 damage, paint their feet, and run, but the slower weapons would be stuck in ink with not very much health left, making them very easy to finish off.

Following up on this, I feel like it's fair to also nerf Fizzy Bomb's damage to 45 direct and 30 indirect, and increase the ink consumption of Burst Bomb and Torpedo by 5% each. It'd be silly to nerf all the lethal bombs and then just leave the non-lethals sitting at the top of the tier lists unchanged.

Fizzy bomb should keep its damage numbers for the same reason as splat bomb, especially since getting all 3 explosions requires you to stand there charging it, giving even more time to react.
Burst bomb is already very ink hungry for what it does, especially since it already got a 5% consumption nerf.
Torpedo can be annoying for slower weapons, but it already takes a while to land, and the rolled mode is basically splat bomb with the nerf you wanted.
These subs are all stronger than utility subs, but I don't see any reason to nerf them instead of buffing the utility subs more.

Also, to make things fair for bombs in light of this upheaval, remove Sub Defense Up outright.

As much as I'm in favor of this, it's not really something we can do.